M8ta - Listening Impressions??

[JonMarsh]

M8ta preferred woofer is RS225; when the first one was built, there was no such thing as an RS225, and the choices were the M8a HiVi or the Seas W22.

[jquin]

Cool thank's for that Jon

I guess my first attempt will use RS225 and I'll save up for some W22's later.

I'm heading stateside in May and hope to get some drivers to bring back. It will probably be mids and tweeters as I can't carry back lots of 8"s I guess the boxes will be too big. Hope the SS6600's are in stock soon.

[JonMarsh]

I originally heard January 2007, but it's February now, so should be soon.

The W22 is a slight improvement in the midrange, and a slight downgrade in the low frequencies over the W22- I wouldn't worry about using the RS225- I have a pair of W22 just sitting in a box, the RS225 are in the system.

~Jon

[cjd]

The biggest problem I seem to have is deciding how involved I want to get in any particular aspect of the speaker building technology! <snip>

The woodworking aspect is pretty straight forward for me because I spent several years in the industry and I build furniture as a hobby, so there isn't much of a learning curve to master.

Got a handle on shipping? Want to do what Jim Salk does? Let me know. I've told Mr. Bunge this too. :P I like the process but half the battle for me is getting around to actually DOING the woodworking (which I love, but don't have space for it all).

C

[jquin]

Hi All
I don't want to post too off topic but I am looking to build a 5.1 system around the M8ta and want to know if anyone has good things to say about any small drivers for the surround.

I want it to be small. I'm thinking a RS28A and some 4" driver, 5" at the max.
Low cost is also a big thing, I love surround sound but lets face it, you don't really sit and "listen" to them. Well I doubt I will.

In any case I am tripping to USA in May and need to get my shopping list together.
At the moment it's looking like
Qty 3 SS6600
Qty 1 RS225 Shielded
Qty 2 RS225 4ohm(I haven't nailed down yet if the 4ohm unshielded is the one used in the M8ta)
Qty 2 RS28A
Qty 2 ?????

And Qty 3 RS52 for future projects.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
John Q

[JonMarsh]

I personally don't recommend anything smaller than a Modula MT for surrounds... they need more capbility than you think, or it doesn't sound realistic... just annoying, like a fly behind you....

[jquin]

I personally don't recommend anything smaller than a Modula MT for surrounds... they need more capbility than you think, or it doesn't sound realistic... just annoying, like a fly behind you....

Oh don't say that!
I was thinking three 8" drivers would be challenging to fit into my luggage, now I have to fit five :E . Not to mention my duty free single malt.


Looks like I might be taking a visit to UPS over there. I'll have to redo the numbers. I might be better to get them shipped to OZ directly.

[Brian Bunge]

Just FYI, the Modula MT uses the RS180, so that would be 3 RS225's and and 2 RS180's.

[cjd]

Also, I believe the 8ohm RS225 was used in all the current projects posted here.

[JonMarsh]

Brian and Chris are right on target- now that ought to be manageable in your luggage, shouldn't it? :W

Sometimes I wish they would bring out a Neo RS series with less weight and less rear masking- would make life easier for guys like you, too!

[cjd]

Jon:

Dayton clearly has the interest in doing driver development. What if some of the super smart folks here at HTGuide were to do the testing/evaluation/spec for them? I wonder if we COULD actually build our own after all, if a company like that could get behind it. And they just might. Maybe.

C

[Brian Bunge]

Jon and Chris,

PE does have an OEM division. It's obvious that some of this is just pricing on their standard products but it also appears that they'll customize to your specs as well. Since I have a dealer acct I could head this up if you'd like. Let's get together a list of exactly what we want and I'd be happy to take it to them. If it's a simple as "we want a neo version of the RS drivers (including tweeters) with similar specs" I can go ahead and send an email.

One thing I'd definitely like to see is either 2 ohm or 8 ohm versions of the RS subs. This way I could build a dual driver sub running off of a single monoblock amp or maybe even one of the better plate amps requiring a 4 ohm load.

Either way, email me or PM me and we can discuss further.

[cjd]

I'll put some thoughts together and copy you both later this evening if I remember... the real issue is quantity I think. Neo motors, sweet. Small flange tweeter and mid? yeah. Lots of things would be NICE. The question is, what might they actually be interested in carrying on a wider scale? Much harder to answer, and very likely dependent on their suppliers.

I'd like to see some really down-n-dirty motor assessment take place too, but...

[Brian Bunge]

It's a little slow at work so I got bored and went ahead and sent a quick little email asking about driver design services in general. I also mentioned RS neo tweets and 2/8 ohm subs. And of course I mentioned quantity issues. Oh, I asked about any other OEM services just to see what else was available.

[jquin]

Well I have just placed my order for three ss6600 and three RS225S, I also got two RS28A-4
but damm it they are out of RS180s and RS52 :E , they might get some in before I leave for the states.
I am thinking of ditching the RS52's unless of course Jon has finished his
three way version of the M8ta and says that it is "soooo much better" than the original.
Personally I don't know where Jon finds the time to reply to all the stuff on this forum let alone do designs. ;x(
Anyway my M8ta is hotting up. By mid May I expect to be back here with all the ingredients for some serious speaker building. :twisted:
I am however having trouble sourcing HDF instead of MDF. Anyone hazard a guess as to how detrimental using MDF will be?

Regards
John Q

[Evil Twin]

Just not quite as stiff or dense, and you have to be more careful maching/cutting it, as it will flake more easily. If you only have access to MDF, you may as well layup the front panel with 1" or 3/4" sections depending on what's more easily available.

The 3 way M8ta will come after the CC/HT three way design is finished, and the smaller version will join it's elders postulated in the Three Way Design Study thread as three way systems... not that this takes anything away from the two way, especially with the 66000 they should work very well. We shall see how this new approach will work... hopefully soon.

[jquin]

Just not quite as stiff or dense, and you have to be more careful maching/cutting it, as it will flake more easily. If you only have access to MDF, you may as well layup the front panel with 1" or 3/4" sections depending on what's more easily available.

The 3 way M8ta will come after the CC/HT three way design is finished, and the smaller version will join it's elders postulated in the Three Way Design Study thread as three way systems... not that this takes anything away from the two way, especially with the 66000 they should work very well. We shall see how this new approach will work... hopefully soon.

Thanks O evil one ;x( . Looks like I might upgrade the M8ta as next years project after the dust has settled on the three way stuff.

--
I see your Schwartz is as big as mine. Let's see how well you handle it.

[kvardas]

Crossovers

Hi Guys......

Probably not the most visually exciting part of the design (I think I'm a better woodworker than electronic assembler). Anyway, one set built - one to go. Should have a listening impression this weekend. :P

I compared my assembled M8ta crossovers to your crossovers. It appears that the wiring for your zobel is different than mine. I wired the zobel under the basis that the positive lead from the high network is from point #4, which is at the junction of the 3 ohm and 6 ohm resistors. Under this approach, the wiring for the zobel is different. Based on your jpeg, perhaps I did something wrong...the speakers sound great...

K

[JonMarsh]

For an LCR zobel, it's machts nicht how you wire the three components, as long as they're all in series, and one end connected SOMEWHERE to the plus driver terminal, and the other to the gnd or "minus" driver terminal. :W

[kvardas]

Ok. Thanks!

[Jed]

I originally heard January 2007, but it's February now, so should be soon.

The W22 is a slight improvement in the midrange, and a slight downgrade in the low frequencies over the W22- I wouldn't worry about using the RS225- I have a pair of W22 just sitting in a box, the RS225 are in the system.

~Jon

For me, when I used RS225 in a 3-way and the W22 in the same system, it was very noticeable how much better the RS225 was from 300hz on down.

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, the RS225 sounds a lot more like a Scanspeak in the bottom end than the Seas. And that's a good thing....

[peter_m]

I want to build a floor stander and was considering the Modula MT rs180/27tbfcg and noticed the RS225 was being discussed here. Is the RS225 a better choice? I don't plan on having a sub. How would it compare with Zaph's L18 based design? How would it compare with the new ER18?

Peter

[Jed]

I want to build a floor stander and was considering the Modula MT rs180/27tbfcg and noticed the RS225 was being discussed here. Is the RS225 a better choice? I don't plan on having a sub. How would it compare with Zaph's L18 based design? How would it compare with the new ER18?

Peter

It's not really fair compairing the RS225 to a 7"er if considering the bottom end extention. The RS225 simply has more guts and slam down low. Midrange performance I'd go with the ER18. Heard them both. However, I have not done a CE filter like Jon, so you might get the best of both worlds with the Rs225 2-way.

[peter_m]

Heard them both. However, I have not done a CE filter like Jon, so you might get the best of both worlds with the Rs225 2-way.

Thanks for the quick reply. Where can I find a rs225/27tbfcg design?

[Jed]

Thanks for the quick reply. Where can I find a rs225/27tbfcg design?

I don't think I've seen one as the RS225 likes to be crossed over around 1200hz and the 27tbfcg will have a hard time with that.

Edit: see this thread for the different tweeter options.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3430

[BobEllis]

I want to build a floor stander and was considering the Modula MT rs180/27tbfcg and noticed the RS225 was being discussed here. Is the RS225 a better choice? I don't plan on having a sub. How would it compare with Zaph's L18 based design? How would it compare with the new ER18?

Peter

If you're up for a floor stander anyway why not consider the RS towers Here?

The RS225/28 has had good reviews, if you really want to stick with a two way. The open baffle RS225 project looks interesting, too. https://web.archive.org/web/20071021...t/projects.htm

[Jonasz]

You can always redo Mark K's bookshelf to a floorstander, you would have to use the RS28 though.

http://www.markk.claub.net/RS225_RS28A_updates/dayton_reference_rs225.htm

[Paul Ebert]

So, I'm about to start working on an M8ta NeoD variant - a WWMT with two RS225-8s in parallel, an RS52, and, probably, a D26NC55. I'll use the Duelund crossover Jon develops for the real M8ta NeoD as a starting point, adapting it to the different WWs and T. Obviously, I'll have a healthy measure of Y in my DIY , but I want something closer to full range than I anticipate the RS180s to be capable of and I suspect I might gain a few dBs of sensitivity going with the 225s.

My first question has to do with the D26. I've finished (re-)reading the M8ta - Fun or Work thread and I notice that a version using the RS28 came out. Did anyone build it? How did it turn out? I guess my main reason for considering the RS28 over the D26 is that I'd like to have a mesh over the dome. I've lost a number of tweeters over the years to small and curious fingers.

I also have a very basic question on building the cabinet. What is the best way to trim the veneer on the angle pieces? It seems to me that a laminate trimmer is out since the angles are not 90 degrees (right?). Is a veneer saw the best tool? I have to admit that I'm nervous about the veneering. I've never done any before. I'll probably do some practice before the real thing, but it's still a big leap. Advice? Thoughts? Also, is the yellow glue and iron method easiest for a noob?

I hope to buy the BB plywood and HDF later this week!

Thanks!

[kvardas]

I also have a very basic question on building the cabinet. What is the best way to trim the veneer on the angle pieces? It seems to me that a laminate trimmer is out since the angles are not 90 degrees (right?). Is a veneer saw the best tool? I have to admit that I'm nervous about the veneering. I've never done any before. I'll probably do some practice before the real thing, but it's still a big leap. Advice? Thoughts? Also, is the yellow glue and iron method easiest for a noob?

I hope to buy the BB plywood and HDF later this week!

Thanks!

I used Titebond II (two coats on each surface and iron method. Cut the veneer with a veneer saw or xcacto knife and straight edge to within about an 1/8" and then handplane (block sand) to the mating surface. Experiment first and practice.