here we go... (tons o' in-wall wiring ?'s)

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  • dookie
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2005
    • 11

    here we go... (tons o' in-wall wiring ?'s)

    first of many questions...any/all info much appreciated. here's the deal:

    the stud walls in the basement just went up and i've been reading a lot! with access to all the 1st floor low voltage wiring from below (it's a freakin' mess) and cat5 wiring experience/tools from work, i figure how hard could it be to do my own structured wiring? it's a single-story house and i'll be using existing locations where present (entire 1st flr). i plan to run belden 2x2 bananna-peel, completely replacing CATV/IP and voice, adding data, 7.2 sound, and terminating at a 19" rack in its own closet; no lighting, controls, or multi-room audio. that much i know, here's what i don't:

    CATV/IP
    --------
    is there such a thing as a patch panel for RG6? i just hate the idea of a bunch of unused wires hanging there...plus, i've got this swank 7' rack to hang it in.

    at the other end the jack will be a leviton quickport, which appears to be just a female F coupler. so i'll need an in-wall male F on the cable, right? are snap-n-seal compression connectors appropriate for top-quality indoor use? my cable co seems to like em.

    is this stuff like cat5, in that it has to be rated end to end, right down to the jacks? what bandwidth should i shoot for (2ghz+)?


    Audio
    -----
    what cable? for reference, i use transparent in my 2-channel rig but don't need quite that level here. good, not esoteric...y'know? 20-25ft runs mostly, assume quality 100wpc and not crazy efficient speakers (i'll ask about that gear later). canare seems like an easy choce. is 4S11 overkill?

    what termination? banannas or posts? do i put jacks in the closet and run patches to the amp, or plug the wire straight in?


    System Modules
    ----------------
    i've got the data covered already, so i'm looking for an RG6/voice system only. i'll buy cabinet system modules (retrofitted into my rack, no actual cabinet) unless there's a reason not to. anything to look for/avoid? are there any with female RJ-45 for *voice* (i.e.: not 110 blocks)? that would really be swell.

    what am i looking for to support cable modem/satellite? 2ghz bi-directional?


    A/C
    ----
    the electrician will do this, i just need to tell him what i want. dedicated circuits are a given. how many? one for data (incl. server), one for basement A/V, one for 1st flr 2-channel?


    if you made it this far, thanks much. i look forward to the responses.

    dookie
    Last edited by dookie; 20 May 2005, 07:52 Friday.
  • Snap
    Super Senior Member
    • Feb 2005
    • 1295

    #2
    holy crud 8O That is a big job! I'll have to think about that for a while before I jump in! This kind of job you can stick your foot in your mouth quick if you are not carefull! Post later on.
    The Bitterness of poor quality last longer than the joy of low prices.

    Comment

    • dookie
      Junior Member
      • Feb 2005
      • 11

      #3
      Originally posted by Snap
      holy crud 8O That is a big job! I'll have to think about that for a while before I jump in! This kind of job you can stick your foot in your mouth quick if you are not carefull! Post later on.
      eastern nc huh? i'm in chapel hill (could you tell by the alias?). got any local vendors to suggest?

      RG6 is a bit of a mystery at this point, but i've done a fair amount of cat5 premise wiring and i've got existing wires to pull the new into place with, so i didn't think to be scared. what's gonna bite me?

      thx,

      dookie

      Comment

      • Patt
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2005
        • 922

        #4
        Originally posted by dookie
        first of many questions...any/all info much appreciated.
        A/C
        ----
        the electrician will do this, i just need to tell him what i want. dedicated circuits are a given. how many? one for data (incl. server), one for basement A/V, one for 1st flr 2-channel?
        Not exactly sure but wherever you could set up a system in the future. Now would be the time to do it because after the house is finished it will certainly be a lot more trouble. At least a couple receptacles each for the sources and amps and video.

        Someone who has done this before might add to this in more detail.
        ......Pat

        Comment

        • Snap
          Super Senior Member
          • Feb 2005
          • 1295

          #5
          Dookie- I am not sure of the people in Chaple Hill. I am in Havelock about 2.5 hours away. About 20 miles off the coast. Morehead City area.

          Pat is right. If you have the ability, it is better to get more that you need than just enough. This will allow for expansion of the system. Homes have a standard 15 amp breakers wich for most systems will be ok. I would go with 2 circuits for each section. Also see how much extra it would be to get them with Isolated grounds. This will help eliminate hums and extra noise that can jump from circuit to circuit some times. This would give you 30 amps of isolated power for your Audio. That would be more than enough for a home system. For Pro stuff, I set my components on one circuit and my amps on the other. Keeps things balanced and reduces the risk of overload, and noise. Doing some research on the other stuff. :T

          Hope this helps.
          Last edited by Snap; 20 May 2005, 10:09 Friday. Reason: mistake
          The Bitterness of poor quality last longer than the joy of low prices.

          Comment

          • Snap
            Super Senior Member
            • Feb 2005
            • 1295

            #6
            Originally posted by dookie
            Audio
            -----
            what cable? for reference, i use transparent in my 2-channel rig but don't need quite that level here. good, not esoteric...y'know? 20-25ft runs mostly, assume quality 100wpc and not crazy efficient speakers (i'll ask about that gear later). canare seems like an easy choce. is 4S11 overkill?

            what termination? banannas or posts? do i put jacks in the closet and run patches to the amp, or plug the wire straight in?

            dookie
            Termination: There are lots of companies that make a "nose Cover" It is like the plastic vent on the outside of your house that aims the Dryer exhaust down towards the ground. A home run is 99% of the time the better way to go. If you can do it with out patches that will give you the best sound. So to answer this I would go with a home run conection if possible and save money on not buying the patch bay.
            The Bitterness of poor quality last longer than the joy of low prices.

            Comment

            • Snap
              Super Senior Member
              • Feb 2005
              • 1295

              #7
              Originally posted by dookie
              CATV/IP
              --------
              is there such a thing as a patch panel for RG6? i just hate the idea of a bunch of unused wires hanging there...plus, i've got this swank 7' rack to hang it in.

              at the other end the jack will be a leviton quickport, which appears to be just a female F coupler. so i'll need an in-wall male F on the cable, right? are snap-n-seal compression connectors appropriate for top-quality indoor use? my cable co seems to like em.

              is this stuff like cat5, in that it has to be rated end to end, right down to the jacks? what bandwidth should i shoot for (2ghz+)?

              System Modules
              ----------------
              i've got the data covered already, so i'm looking for an RG6/voice system only. i'll buy cabinet system modules (retrofitted into my rack, no actual cabinet) unless there's a reason not to. anything to look for/avoid? are there any with female RJ-45 for *voice* (i.e.: not 110 blocks)? that would really be swell.

              what am i looking for to support cable modem/satellite? 2ghz bi-directional?

              dookie
              These 2 problems can be fixed by several companies. All depending on a LOT of variables. Almost all you did not list. System components like Pat had said will play a HUGE part. The outputs of the sytem will directly impact what equipment you need to buy to answer the above quote. A block diagram of your system is a good place to start. This will let you know what boxes you need and what cables runs you will need to make them work. You will find a llot of your equipment needs list by drawing out your desired system.

              How ever....to answer what I can.....

              T2, Channel Vision, and Channel Plus are your best choices to get the RG6 and other networking stuff. They have a whole host of products in a wide range of pricing. T2 being in my opinnion the higher end stuff. A few products that you could look at from the T2 company are the ......

              MS58 and the MD1.

              Channel Vision, and Channel Plus do have more stuff and more choices for you to choose from. And yes 2 gig plus is a must if you are talking Sat Stuff.

              There are several companies that make nice snap-n-seal connectors. I personally like them over the "Crimp" Connectors. I only use compression connections on my RG6 stuff. So I would not have a problem using them. I would not use the ones that TWC uses. They are the super cheep ones that are like 5 cents a pice. :lol: I would upgrade and get gold plated stuff If it was in the budget.

              And Finally the best advise....... See if there is a custom installer in the area, and ask if they do AV consulting? There is a huge chance you might miss something on the design and install that could have been avoided with better planning. A/V companies will push to get the install job, but most "GOOD" companies will not have a problem with consulting. Several hundred bucks and sitting down with an AV specialist is well worth the no .......:banghead: I forgot this.... or I messed this up. Plus if you follow there advise and something is not right, they should help you fix the problem.

              "Sorry for the multiple post ya'll. I just did not want to make one HUGE long post." ops:

              Blessed,
              Snap
              The Bitterness of poor quality last longer than the joy of low prices.

              Comment

              • Snap
                Super Senior Member
                • Feb 2005
                • 1295

                #8
                dookie I did a CEDIA search and there are 2 CEDIA installers in a 25 mile range of you.




                I would check these cats out.
                The Bitterness of poor quality last longer than the joy of low prices.

                Comment

                • dookie
                  Junior Member
                  • Feb 2005
                  • 11

                  #9
                  sounds like i'm on the right track...

                  i've got a visio diagram of the closet wiring and rack, and both floorplans with jack locations. to scale. did i mention my wife's an architect?

                  better yet, i've already made a take-you-to-lunch consultation date with the owner of a highish-end local a/v systems installer...not on your list, but reputedly quite professional.

                  finally, i got my cable today. the premise wiring folks i use in my work hooked me up with their supply house, whose sold me 500' of 7913s for $200 out the door.

                  keep ya' posted,

                  dookie

                  Comment

                  • dookie
                    Junior Member
                    • Feb 2005
                    • 11

                    #10
                    update:

                    16 runs (~750ft) of belden 7913s have been pulled and terminated. at the wall: leviton cat5e jacks for voice & data, F couplers for RF. in the closet: leviton cat5e patch panels, nothing yet on the RG6. CATV/IP and voice are now delivered on the new wire. using leviton 3 in x 8 out RF distribution amp and 'advanced' voice distribution board (which has the desired female RJ-45 connections.) paladin gold compression f-connectors are *nice*. exterior walls are [female dogs].

                    9 runs (~275ft) of canare 4s11 have been pulled and terminated. theatre got 7 runs, everything biwire. deck and screened porch got 1 run each, delivering 2 channels. at the wall: leviton binding posts (a little flimsy...set screws like to shear). in the closet: gls locking bananas. also ran 2 runs of generic rg6 for LFE, w/paladin RCA termination & leviton wall jacks. extra 4s11 will be used w/audioquest spades to make biwire runs from speakers to wall.

                    3 runs of 1.5" carlon conduit have been pulled from closet to double-gang wall boxes at HTPC, projector, and front of theatre for 'whatever' cabling to come. 20' hdmi and component cables are on hand for projector.

                    4 independent ac circuits have been pulled to the closet as well, though i expect to have a tripplite lcr2400 feeding most of the gear.

                    other recent toy purchases: panoview (optoma) 52"x92" graywolf manual screen, perfectmounts series 2000 projector mount, used definitive technology 5-channel speaker set (2x bp2006tl, 1x clr2300, 2x bp1.2x...$850!). waiting until last minute for the benq pe7700, hoping prices will drop a bit more.

                    drywall is going up this week. after which i can move the rack into the closet and get serious about final cable termination. paint and flooring to follow. football season is getting close!

                    still need a receiver and dvd player. i'm thinking s77/97 for the latter, and 'filler' for the former...by which i mean something adequate with which to wait out hdmi solidification and widespread availability. suggestions?

                    thx,

                    dookie
                    Last edited by dookie; 18 July 2005, 09:16 Monday.

                    Comment

                    • David Meek
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 8938

                      #11
                      Originally posted by dookie
                      i'm thinking s77/97
                      Is that the Panasonic?
                      .

                      David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                      Comment

                      • dookie
                        Junior Member
                        • Feb 2005
                        • 11

                        #12
                        right...

                        panasonic dvd-s77s or dvd-s97s. possibly the oppo dv971h as well.

                        dookie

                        Comment

                        • Snap
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Feb 2005
                          • 1295

                          #13
                          dookie going to be in your neck of the woods on the 26th. AV Expo in Raleigh! :T

                          Distributed Audio/Video and a few other cool things. Some big name reps are going to be there as well as good training.

                          I sent you a PM
                          The Bitterness of poor quality last longer than the joy of low prices.

                          Comment

                          • dookie
                            Junior Member
                            • Feb 2005
                            • 11

                            #14
                            here's a current shot looking in the back door of the closet...

                            all the cat5 is done, tested and in service (blue = voice, green = data). the rg6 is in service, but not completely terminated & routed. you can see the speaker cable hanging between the right edge of the rack and the bundle of rg6. it and the video signal cables enter through conduit in the ceiling.

                            just above the phone & coax distribution is a black wood shelf, which is more or less even with the opening into the finished theater space in the back wall. A/V components begin here (several other shelves not yet installed), facing into the theater and showing their rears to the closet for easy access. there will be a glass-in-frame 'cabinet' door covering the opening for noise reduction.

                            whew! getting closer...

                            dookie
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