mini-itx very cool....very small

[Gordon Moore]

So I went in the local pc store the other day picking up the last of my hardware and they were putting together a pc that seemed a lot smaller than micro-atx form factor. I inquired and it was a mini-itx unit.

New to me.

What's mini-itx? well if you look a couple of posts down you'll see a pc built in to a RC Car. Mini-ITX offers all sorts of creative outlets for building pc's.

If you want to learn more about this try here:

http://www.mini-itx.com

Here's some facts (reprinted from that site):

Whilst sharing much with it's older siblings Micro-ATX & Flex-ATX, mini-ITX is actually quite different in some very important ways

The maximum mainboard size is only 170mm x 170mm, where Flex/Micro-ATX can be much bigger.
A Mini-ITX PSU is less than 100 Watts.
Mini-ITX is backward-compatible with both Flex-ATX and Micro-ATX.


EPIA is a range of highly integrated motherboards from VIA, the current models all feature:

Compact mini-ITX form factor
15-Pin VGA with S-Video & Composite TV-Out
Two 168-pin DIMM memory sockets
VIA 10/100 Ethernet LAN onboard
VIA Apollo PLE133 Chipset - Integrated AGP2X with 2D/3D Graphics Acceleration with motion compensation for DVD playback
Sound Blaster, Sound Blaster Pro Compatible (with S/PDIF output shared with composite video-out)
1 PCI slot
2 USB ports. You may connect an optional 2 port USB module to the motherboard.
An embedded EBGA (Enhanced Ball Grid Array) VIA eden or C3 CPU



You can get processors up to 933Mhz I think.

The applications in the HTPC world have some interesting possibilities. Size being the biggest plus, heat and noise issues are minimal. It's Definately worth looking into as an alternative to the traditional HTPC. You do give up some capabilities in the video department...I imagine.

Price is very reasonable...and it does have a certain "cool factor" 'cuz it's so damn small. One guy stuffed his pc inside his old dreamcast box 8)


For a sense of scale (from TweakNews.net):


check it out.


Gord

[SiliGoose]

Very cool.
I'm considering a micro-ATX for my next PC (a HTPC). I don't think I'd be willing to go this route but it's still very cool.




-Sili

[Andrew Pratt]

Cool!

Out of curiosity which store do you buy your parts from?

[Gordon Moore]

Well, I'd say it a 70/30 mix of MLHSystems http://www.mlhsystems.ca and Computer Boulevard http://www.computerboulevard.ca and I double-check that against ComputersCablesandMore http://www.computercablesandmore.com/ and DesignerGraphics http://www.dgraphics.mb.ca

By far MLHSystems on Donald before confusion-corner(Winnipeg has hillarious nicknames for certain locations...don't we??)


For the most comprehensive list (that I know) of computer resellers in Winnipeg : http://www.jkcc.ca/TheList/

[Andrew Pratt]

Thanks for the heads up on MLH I hadn't heard about them. I usually buy from computeravenue or computerboulevard if I'm buying locally or from http://www.NCIX.com since they'll ship to work and are usually cheaper.

[Andrew Pratt]

Gordon and I were talking last night about these boards and the idea of trying to fit one of these new boards into a DVD players case came up. If you took something like the Apex that already has a DVD-Rom onboard it might be fun to see if you could install the mobo inplace of the guts of the DVD player. Might be a fun project for someone with some time and funds on their hands

[Gordon Moore]

Ya know, when you said it, it didn't totally click at the time...guess I was tired.

That would be a very cool idea, uber Apex,

RE-use the case, dvd-rom and the power-supply...drop in mini-itx and a hard drive and presto-change-o you now have a progressive player that is networked, acts as a TIVO, can play games, connects to the internet,is a MP3 jukebox...add IR and you're cooking with gas (actually a techie type might be able to rehash the built-in ir reciever).


Hmmmmm,

$180 CDN for the board,
$94 CDN for the APEX player
$107-160 CDN for the hard drive of your choice

for $400 CDN (or $10 for our U.S. co-patriots) you'd have a kick-ass dvd player that integrates nicely on the AV rack and is quiet


Get out your DREMELS

[Andrew Pratt]

Ah now you see where I was going with it...pretty cool project isn't it

[Eduardo]

I am very interested in this project. When I first read this post I thought about using a VCR shell but an APEX would even be better. I would love to be able to record to a HD and have it be a MP3 jukebox too.

Is this truely possible?

http://home.nc.rr.com/ejimenez

[Andrew Pratt]

Is this truely possible?

Anythings possible if you're willing to pay for it :W

The only issue with the microboards in a Apex might be the onboard video quality but Jon would have a far better view on that then I

[Lex]

Hmm, interesting idea. What CPUs do these things run?

Lex




Cable Guy DVD Collection

[Gordon Moore]

2 Choices:

a)The VIA C3

currently 700 Mhz - 933 Mhz (runs like a celeron)

scheduled
=======
nehemiah 0.13µm C4 (C5X) 1.1-1.2GHz, Q3 2002 (SSE)
nehemiah 0.13µm C4 (C5XL) 1.2-1.5GHz, Q4 2002
esther 0.10µm C4 (C5Y) > 1.5Ghz, Q3 2003

b) VIA's EDEN processor

400 -600 Mhz



FWIW...I've been snooping around AVS and a couple of people have used these to build an MP3 jukebox but no one has commented on the video quality of the new boards with hardware MPEGII and motion compensation (maybe because it's soooo new).

There is an add-on card made by real magic that offers beefed up HTPC video

Read the review here (it's rather subjective..not that technical but beggars can't be choosers http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/xcard/ ...this review compares an old EPIA board to the card...i think...they don't mention the details of the mini-itx board used)


This review concentrates on the latest greatest EPIA-M series with beefed up video http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/epiampreview/



This would be the board you want for htpc:

http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_m_spec.jsp?motherboardId=81

The C3 is their workhorse CPU and that would be the one you want:

http://www.via.com.tw/en/viac3/c3E.jsp

Pick up an M-Series board with a 933 C3 for $260 CDN...not bad, really 8)

Personally I'd wait till it pushes the Ghz range...they're such lower power consumption CPU's. It's worth it (IMO) to hold out if you are seriously thinking about using this to make this the worlds beefiest dvd player.

[Andrew Pratt]

Ok I have someone that is willing to buy my DVD player which would give me enough cash to go ahead with this project if I want...so honestly what do you think is it worth the cost to try it vs say a XP50 from pannasonic? I will be buying a projector so some sorts down the road but I don't yet know if it will be a CRT or simply an older LCD model that would likely only accept 800 * 600 resolution.

I figure I'd need a case so we'd try the Apex with its built in DVD-rom drive for $90, the VIA EPIA M9000 C3 933 Eden mini-ITX (onboard video, lan, sound) is $260 plus we'd need a wireless keyboard/mouse which is about $70 which brings us to $425. I have a spare 1 gig hard drive I could use and I'm sure I could find some ram somewhere for now...hmm

[Gordon Moore]

Whew...tough call...XP-50 is around $525 CDN MSRP. The biggest difference is DVD-A.

You may want to get together a pros and cons list.

The biggest unknown is the video quality...that said, you can scale the pc. if you want to scale that player you'll need more hardware...hence the cost savings becomes more apparent even if you get a smoking deal on the XP-50. A networkable dvd player does offer some interesting options.

If you went the traditional HTPC route your cost would blow it out of the water if you want to integrate it nicely on the rack...because you're going to have to special order that case...and it's going to cost almost as much as the whole mini project.

I'm rambling a bit...

Maybe you could get friendly with the guys at MLH and see what you could work out for a loaner to run tests...and do your 30 day future shop or ABSound return on the XP50. Do your AB comparisons that way. Talk to Michael...he's a really nice guy and in this case the only one you would want to talk to.

They have a few mini-itx projects on display. One of them is stuffed inside a logitech sub 8)

I see your creative juices are flowing.

I just wish we new more about the video quality...Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Jon? Jon? Jon?

[Andrew Pratt]

Yes its really the video quality that's the big issue here. The only report I've read on it wasn't that great and its not readily upgradable if its in a small ITX case so I tossed the thought of going with a regular case and ATI card etc. It would be more flexible and I have lots of room in the rack so that's not really a problem. What would be a problem is the regular HTPC route would be a lot more $$$...but I guess I could do it one peice at a time.

[Gordon Moore]

some other 3rd party reviews on mini-itx:

http://www.rolotech.com/reviews/CPU/VIA/EPIAM/epiam_p4.asp?SourceSite=

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/viaepiam/

I guess another alternative is Shuttle XPC's, although I don't know of anyone who carries these locally.

http://us.shuttle.com/ the AGP port allows for your ATI card
and small form factor would allow for tight fitted installations but not as small as mini-itx.

Get in touch with MLH and see if they can get a line on Shuttle XPC's...maybe they have contacts with one of the Canadian resellers...then video isn't an issue.

[Andrew Pratt]

I think Computer Boulvard nd Computer Avenue sell the shuttles...at least I remember seeing one there a while back. The problem with the shuttles is they are very expensive for what you get. If I went with a micro ATX case and motherboard I'd only be looking at about $190 vs the $400 they want for even a bottom end Shuttle. At this point I'm not sure I can afford either the ITX or microATX given the total cost to get started but I haven't given up looking at my options just yet.