Still Thinking About Windows 10 ? Not Me. Read This First

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  • Alaric
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 4143

    Still Thinking About Windows 10 ? Not Me. Read This First

    I lifted this from a computer forum I belong to. It was my post so there shouldn't be any problems with copyright. These two threads will provide more info , and even more questions. http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...d-think-Win-10

    My questions started at post #838 on this page http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...chapter/page42


    Now , for us conspiracy nuts combine this http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/07/w...with-contacts/
    with this http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html

    If you aren't somewhat savvy and aware of all your various settings , the following is not a big leap. (fill in name here) government agency sends you an email. Outlook or your email client automatically adds sender to your contacts. Win10 then provides the sender with the necessary info to get on your network from two blocks away. This information , it could be argued , was voluntarily provided by YOUR OS. Therefore , no warrant necessary. Or , if that argument doesn't fly , it is still a good case for the nonsensical "good faith" argument because they "didn't understand the new technology". Not to mention the hackers and phishers. Time for me to read every word of EVERY update and keep even the upgrade compatibility crap out of my computer. I feel that "Told you so" coming on in another thread.
    Still liking that "free" upgrade? Not me. Windows 10/M$ is becoming a giant spider with a web I don't want to be caught in.
    Lee

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  • Chris D
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Dec 2000
    • 16877

    #2
    Lee, I think the pages in the two links you have in your quote there may have changed. The first one gives a 404 error now, and the 2nd one talks about making an antenna out of a coffee can.
    CHRIS

    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
    - Pleasantville

    Comment

    • Alaric
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Jan 2006
      • 4143

      #3
      Not sure why the link quit. I'll try again.


      This one worked for me. The article covers Windows 10s sharing network access with all your Facebook friends and everyone on your contact list.
      Lee

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      • Alaric
        Ultra Senior Member
        • Jan 2006
        • 4143

        #4
        The can antenna ties in with the potential for network intrusion from blocks away.

        Another article on the privacy issues with Win 10. And yes , most of them can be gotten around (not all , however). The problem is these things occur by default and the average user will just click "Accept" when Windows wants to do something because it's easier. http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2015/07/29/wind-nos/
        Last edited by Alaric; 30 July 2015, 23:00 Thursday.
        Lee

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        • Chris D
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Dec 2000
          • 16877

          #5
          So, has anyone upgraded to Win 10? How is it? I just found this article:

          CHRIS

          Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
          - Pleasantville

          Comment

          • P-Dub
            Office Moderator
            • Aug 2000
            • 6766

            #6
            Not yet.

            I don't like how that article points to a program that also includes the ability to disable Windows updates. One of the key things on this Win10 is constant updates, for good or bad about Win, those security patches need to get installed.
            Paul

            There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.

            Comment

            • Hdale85
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Jan 2006
              • 16075

              #7
              I just got the rollout for my upgrade, I'm going to install it tomorrow, grab the key then do a fresh install as I don't like upgrading windows from one version to another.

              Comment

              • Alaric
                Ultra Senior Member
                • Jan 2006
                • 4143

                #8
                One of the key things on this Win10 is constant updates
                Constant , mandatory updates. M$ doesn't give you a choice. I've had updates bork things before , often enough to not want to relinquish control. And if you look at what Win 10 collects by default and sends home , the OS can be one of the biggest security issues. Most (not all) of the privacy settings can be changed , but most users will let it act in M$' best interest. As long as users are aware of these things it is a great OS and works as advertised. I think you'll like it.
                Lee

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                Comment

                • Hdale85
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 16075

                  #9
                  Well the updates will be beta tested by those users still running the beta version of Windows 10 lol.

                  Comment

                  • Hdale85
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Jan 2006
                    • 16075

                    #10
                    Ok, so got my fresh install of Windows 10 running and so far so good. You don't need a key it seems. It generates a hardware profile key in the server and after you install the update you can use the USB installer tool to install windows again and skip inserting a key and when windows connects to the internet it'll automatically validate your hardware and activate windows.

                    Comment

                    • Alaric
                      Ultra Senior Member
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 4143

                      #11
                      It generates more than a hardware profile. After each update it goes through your documents folder and email and sends that back to M$ unless you're careful when you go through the privacy settings , most of which are under "settings" and no longer easily found through the control panel. All of the nosiness is to generate ad revenue for M$ from targeted ads (including third party) , but the long range implications scare me.
                      Lee

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                      Comment

                      • Hdale85
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 16075

                        #12
                        Well Microsoft has been activating Windows this way since Vista so.....

                        Comment

                        • Alaric
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Jan 2006
                          • 4143

                          #13
                          M$ has needed the end user to provide a product key to access the information on their servers. They now gather and retain enough info to not need you to verify your identify , and it can be cross referenced on their servers to positively identify your PC , not your submitted "receipt". Just starting your computer completes the transaction. No inconvenient permission necessary. You already gave that permission when you clicked Accept on the EULA. It effectively (and legally) gives M$ access to ALL your data. "Your bases are belong to us". It is now an active and live draw of information from your PC , not an as needed surrender for verification against records. It is the same as no longer asking for ID if you want something , it is scanning your DNA as you walk through the door. It saves you the trip to the counter , but takes away your right to change your mind before you get there. A small distinction to some , but I don't like the direction it points.

                          It's a good OS. For me , it's a bad deal. YMMV.
                          Lee

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                          • bigburner
                            Super Senior Member
                            • May 2005
                            • 2649

                            #14
                            My upgrade from 8.1 to 10 went very smoothly. I barely notice the difference.

                            If you do decide to upgrade you might like to consider this advice published in TechRepublic...

                            Windows 10 violates your privacy by default, here's how you can protect yourself

                            Nigel.

                            Comment

                            • Hdale85
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Jan 2006
                              • 16075

                              #15
                              Actually you've been able to skip the key part of Windows since 7.

                              Comment

                              • Alaric
                                Ultra Senior Member
                                • Jan 2006
                                • 4143

                                #16
                                I haven't been able to. The wife's laptop (Vista) and my tower (7) have required a product key for activation. Even had to call it in a couple times. Strange. Could be due to one of the bazillion "Stay out my bidness!" settings I change during initial setup. LOL
                                Lee

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                                • Kevin P
                                  Member
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 10809

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Hdale85
                                  Actually you've been able to skip the key part of Windows since 7.
                                  You can skip it during install, but then you will only have a 30 day trial until a key is entered and activated.

                                  Sounds like with Windoze 10, a key is generated automagically based on the hardware hash and then activated.

                                  With all the spyware, I'm a bit hesitant to upgrade. Maybe just on the wife's computer that has 8.1 now, just to get rid of 8.1. My W7 lappy is going to stay on W7 for the foreseeable future.

                                  Comment

                                  • Hdale85
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Jan 2006
                                    • 16075

                                    #18
                                    You skip it, and you can enter a key later on, but you can also activate it the same way Windows 10 does it. It's not a new process is all I'm saying, they just seem to be relying on it more.

                                    Comment

                                    • bigburner
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • May 2005
                                      • 2649

                                      #19
                                      My music laptop is W7 and I'll upgrade that when hell freezes over. The same applies to the ancient version of iTunes that runs on it, which is an intuitive easy-to-use version unlike recent ones.

                                      Nigel.

                                      Comment

                                      • Alaric
                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                        • Jan 2006
                                        • 4143

                                        #20
                                        The difference in activation is you used to have to initiate the information exchange and verification was mostly based on the motherboard serial number. Now Win 10 gathers info from all your files and phones home with it during mandatory updates. Cortana (more like Mata Hari) also uses your webcam and microphone to gather information , "To enhance your Windows experience". A friend of mine recently exited his shower and saw Cortana's eye and ear icons pop up on his laptop. They stayed there for about 30 seconds. It's like some kind of creepified , digital Santa. "She knows when you are sleeping , she knows when you're awake........"
                                        Lee

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                                        • Hdale85
                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Jan 2006
                                          • 16075

                                          #21
                                          I must not have Cortana activated then or something because I don't see anything pertaining to it other than the search box in the start menu.

                                          Comment

                                          • crytklmass
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Dec 2008
                                            • 145

                                            #22
                                            I think Windows will always have issues and people will always complain. Like it or hate it doesn't really matter eventually your forced to upgrade when they stop supporting older versions. You can always buy a Mac.....
                                            BOB

                                            Comment

                                            • Alaric
                                              Ultra Senior Member
                                              • Jan 2006
                                              • 4143

                                              #23
                                              Or learn Linux , which will be my next OS if there aren't better options available when the time comes.
                                              Lee

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                                              • Chris D
                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                • Dec 2000
                                                • 16877

                                                #24
                                                Another article on the subject.

                                                Windows 10's privacy policies are not nearly as bad as what you've read. But Microsoft isn't doing itself any favors with overly broad privacy statements, difficult-to-navigate privacy settings and a general lack of transparency.


                                                I still haven't upgraded yet.
                                                CHRIS

                                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                - Pleasantville

                                                Comment

                                                • impala454
                                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                                  • Oct 2007
                                                  • 3814

                                                  #25
                                                  I have two machines with 8.1 and still have never seen anything pop up about windows 10.

                                                  Dougie you mentioned you did a clean install. I also like to do this, but did you *have* to do the upgrade first, then a clean install? Or do you think I can just do a clean install and it uses my existing hardware key?
                                                  -Chuck

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Hdale85
                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                    • 16075

                                                    #26
                                                    Yeah you have to do the upgrade first so it registers your hardware and generates a key, Then you just do a clean install and skip the CD Key options and when it starts windows the first time it'll activate it via the internet automatically.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • impala454
                                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                                      • Oct 2007
                                                      • 3814

                                                      #27
                                                      Seems that no matter what I try, I can't get it to allow me to upgrade.
                                                      -Chuck

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Alaric
                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                        • Jan 2006
                                                        • 4143

                                                        #28
                                                        If you have an OEM version of 8.1 you may have to go through your original supplier (Dell , HP , etc..) I seem to recall hearing that , and my OEM W7 hasn't pestered me about it either. I can still get it if I want to , as I am my OEM. Full retail versions just come through Windows Update.
                                                        Lee

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                                                        • Kevin P
                                                          Member
                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                          • 10809

                                                          #29
                                                          Here's a cool, free utility that puts all the important privacy settings in one place. Makes it easy to turn on/off whatever you want in Windoze 10: http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

                                                          Even better, it doesn't require installation, so it won't clutter up your machine with unneeded registry entries, etc.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Alaric
                                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                                            • Jan 2006
                                                            • 4143

                                                            #30
                                                            Those are going to be mighty popular types of software. It's almost a shame that most of the feedback M$ gets will be from people who don't know enough to not give them feedback. LOL
                                                            Lee

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                                                            • impala454
                                                              Ultra Senior Member
                                                              • Oct 2007
                                                              • 3814

                                                              #31
                                                              I guess since all mine are developer versions I don't get an upgrade. Other than that I have no idea why.
                                                              -Chuck

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Alaric
                                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                                • Jan 2006
                                                                • 4143

                                                                #32
                                                                That is probably it. I think OEM and retail versions are the only ones that get the upgrade. I may be wrong or they may change that as there is a growing resistance to W10. That may cause them to loosen the requirements to get more people on board. Some food for thought here

                                                                and here http://www.disclose.tv/news/a_terrif...dows_10/121544
                                                                Lee

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                                                                • impala454
                                                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                                                  • Oct 2007
                                                                  • 3814

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Yeah I'm reading the same thing. That stinks as I have like 10 valid Window 8.1 licenses and no way to upgrade them.
                                                                  -Chuck

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Alaric
                                                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                                    • 4143

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Bit torrent sites are now banning W10 users due to W10 sending copies of your local discs to MarkMonitor , a third party brand protection company. http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/08/mos...dows-10-users/
                                                                    Lee

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                                                                    • Chris D
                                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                                      • Dec 2000
                                                                      • 16877

                                                                      #35
                                                                      ... (sigh)... color me not surprised, though. M$ has been, and will continue to, search for ways to bar piracy and max protect licenses, regardless of how draconian and overreaching the methods may be.
                                                                      CHRIS

                                                                      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                      - Pleasantville

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Alaric
                                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                                        • Jan 2006
                                                                        • 4143

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Copying the contents of all my local discs is going too far for me. Sending that copy to whatever third party they deem appropriate is beyond the pale. "All your data are belong to us. Resistance is futile." Not so fast , M$..... http://www.majorgeeks.com/news/story...0_upgrade.html
                                                                        Lee

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                                                                        • Kevin P
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                                          • 10809

                                                                          #37
                                                                          I wonder if someone's compiled a list of IPs/domains that your data gets sent to, so they can be blocked via perimeter firewalls.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • impala454
                                                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                                                            • Oct 2007
                                                                            • 3814

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Protecting licenses is fine with me. Sending my data to someone else is not.
                                                                            -Chuck

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Alaric
                                                                              Ultra Senior Member
                                                                              • Jan 2006
                                                                              • 4143

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Kevin , yes there are. The known sites so far https://www.astaro.org/gateway-produ...10-spying.html

                                                                              And "protecting licenses" in M$ parlance is copying your local discs and enforcing other company's licenses. Cause they can.
                                                                              Lee

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                                                                              • impala454
                                                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                • Oct 2007
                                                                                • 3814

                                                                                #40
                                                                                "MS is copying your local discs" - What exactly are they copying? I guarantee they're not copying the entire contents of your drive, so what exactly is it? Copying hardware IDs necessary to enforce license has been happening for a very long time and I see no issue with it.
                                                                                -Chuck

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Alaric
                                                                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                                                  • 4143

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Unfortunately , yes , it does. Documents , pictures , videos , games , complete browsing history-every URL you visit. Everything Cortana sees and hears and EVERY keystroke you make. The "unauthorized peripheral hardware" means it is in your phone , camera , SD card reader , and external drives. Anything that connects to your computer. The EULA for W10 crosses over from Orwellian to Draconian. Have any CDs ripped to your computer ? Any music that doesn't have the rights attached will be gone. There are a myriad of reasons a person might not have the digital rights to music or a movie on their computer but legitimately own the content anyway. Not anymore.
                                                                                  It also collects everything about your social media activity and sends it back to M$ , along with all the traffic on your network , going so far as to give network access to your Facebook friends.

                                                                                  Many of these things can be turned off but not nearly enough. And since updates are not user controlled , any work around solutions you may find to keep W10 out of your Documents folder , etc. , will be undone at the next update.


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                                                                                  Lee

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                                                                                  • Alaric
                                                                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                                                    • 4143

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Click image for larger version

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                                                                                    Lee

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                                                                                    • impala454
                                                                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                      • Oct 2007
                                                                                      • 3814

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Lee, is there some sort of proof that this all this data is being copied? I can't imagine the level of server farm that would be necessary to house all of everyone's data from everyone's hard drives. What you're saying doesn't even seem possible.
                                                                                      -Chuck

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Alaric
                                                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                        • Jan 2006
                                                                                        • 4143

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Here's one article. http://www.disclose.tv/news/a_terrif...dows_10/121544 There are other , better sources (like M$ own EULA). I'll see if I can dig some up.

                                                                                        edit: http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/17/91...-cloud-privacy
                                                                                        Lee

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                                                                                        • Hdale85
                                                                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                          • Jan 2006
                                                                                          • 16075

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Chuck, not to mention the amount of user bandwidth they'd be eating up and likely sued over.

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