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  • madmac
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2010
    • 3122

    #46
    @mjb......Yes I've heard that discussion about where the web is going. And yes, I am in the 'older' generation!. In your own words, where is the web going that doesn't need the features that Chris above wants in a tablet?.
    Dan Madden :T

    Comment

    • Chris D
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Dec 2000
      • 16877

      #47
      I got a BIG laugh out of a Conan spoof of the iPad 2 launch. I don't know if there's a way to link just the video itself, but you can see it on this webpage here:

      CHRIS

      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
      - Pleasantville

      Comment

      • PewterTA
        Moderator
        • Nov 2004
        • 2901

        #48
        Conan's video is dead on.

        People will buy it because they are trained Apple Cult followers. Sad really that we are loosing our idividuality by becoming sheep in a flock.

        I'm not ripping on Apple or it's product. It's a "NEAT" product...does it do everything I need it to do to make it my one and only thing. No, not even close (about a galaxy away).

        But it just facinates me that they have brainwashed people into continuing to buy things that are just mild upgrades for things that (on the "PC" side) people won't do. I mean if you have a laptop, I don't see you ever 2 years buying a new laptop with an EVER so slightly new processor and well that's about it... ...I know there's more than that...but basically as was said before, this is iPad 1.5 not 2.0. Apparently they aren't re-inventing themselves...just living off their old glory of the iPad.

        I mean they couldn't even put the Retina display in it... that's sad. That's a much better display and would've made a decent sized difference. But they know that th iPad 3 will have it and again... everyone will just run and upgrade it.

        I mean it's very much Microsoft-ish with their Windows suite...but at least there (except for Vista) there's a pretty big difference. Also Apple is much more "slick" with their upgrades and tricking people into buying new things.

        Like I said I like the iPhone & iPad and thing they are really slick (as they should've be for anything so proprietary....if you think about it.

        But you gotta have something for people to waste their money on during this "rough" economy...
        Digital Audio makes me Happy.
        -Dan

        Comment

        • mjb
          Super Senior Member
          • Mar 2005
          • 1483

          #49
          Not much Apple love here is there?!

          Double the RAM, double the processor cores, supposedly 9 times faster graphics, 2 camera's, thiner, lighter, faster, a 10 hour battery life, same price, and they're "just living off their old glory of the iPad"? Why did Apple employees even bother going to work today? Oh, and Samsung is upset about the pricing: they can't match it, and Microsoft might have their iPad ready in 2012. Yes, there are things missing, but why add them now? You have to hold something back for the next iPad in 12 months.

          Originally posted by PewterTA
          But you gotta have something for people to waste their money on during this "rough" economy...
          Better an iPad, that keeps the economies rolling, than drugs.
          - Mike

          Main System:
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          • Chris D
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Dec 2000
            • 16877

            #50
            Originally posted by mjb
            Yes, there are things missing, but why add them now? You have to hold something back for the next iPad in 12 months.
            mjb, I have very little problem with any of your arguments. But this part, (if it is true, which we have no conclusive proof they COULD do retina display, cell phone, or other capability right now) would really trouble me. The attitude of "well, we could make it really good, but let's not, so they buy it now, and then buy it all over again in a few months". If you really care about your product, why not make it THE BEST PRODUCT YOU CAN MAKE IT BE, and then worry about improving it AGAIN for the next model? If they really are holding features back, that would just confirm to me that this really is the iPad 1.5, and Apple's making us wait for the true iPad 2.

            There are reasons (as I've explained) I chose not to buy the iPad 1. Releasing a better performing version of the same model won't convince me to buy. It could be 10 times as fast, 20 times better with graphics, and have 50 times the RAM. But if it doesn't add capabilities I ***NEED***, and stays the same price, I can't find a reason to buy!!! Adding two cameras is one of the few features they actually ADDED to the iPad, not just make better. That's great! Grrrrr... if only they had added a couple more features, like cell phone capability, document storage/creation/editing, or maybe even retina display, I might have a compelling reason to buy the dang thing! And I'm LOOKING for excuses to buy it! Do I really have to wait a whole 'nuther year to find out if the next iPad will actually have more features, or again just be a better performing version of the same thing?

            I don't need a CB radio, either. But if Motorola made a new CB radio with features I could actually use, I might buy one!

            Perhaps I'm just not the person Apple is trying to sell iPads to. (like I'm probably not the demographic Motorola is trying to sell CB's to) I doubt it, though. Being a techno gadget geek, I seem to be *exactly* in the group they want to sell to. But I also try to maintain some wisdom in my finances. I'm not just going to buy every device out there that companies make, just because they want me to, or because they're flashy gadgets.
            CHRIS

            Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
            - Pleasantville

            Comment

            • Ovation
              Super Senior Member
              • Sep 2004
              • 2202

              #51
              Originally posted by Chris D
              mjb, I have very little problem with any of your arguments. But this part, (if it is true, which we have no conclusive proof they COULD do retina display, cell phone, or other capability right now) would really trouble me. The attitude of "well, we could make it really good, but let's not, so they buy it now, and then buy it all over again in a few months". If you really care about your product, why not make it THE BEST PRODUCT YOU CAN MAKE IT BE, and then worry about improving it AGAIN for the next model? If they really are holding features back, that would just confirm to me that this really is the iPad 1.5, and Apple's making us wait for the true iPad 2.

              There are reasons (as I've explained) I chose not to buy the iPad 1. Releasing a better performing version of the same model won't convince me to buy. It could be 10 times as fast, 20 times better with graphics, and have 50 times the RAM. But if it doesn't add capabilities I ***NEED***, and stays the same price, I can't find a reason to buy!!! Adding two cameras is one of the few features they actually ADDED to the iPad, not just make better. That's great! Grrrrr... if only they had added a couple more features, like cell phone capability, document storage/creation/editing, or maybe even retina display, I might have a compelling reason to buy the dang thing! And I'm LOOKING for excuses to buy it! Do I really have to wait a whole 'nuther year to find out if the next iPad will actually have more features, or again just be a better performing version of the same thing?

              I don't need a CB radio, either. But if Motorola made a new CB radio with features I could actually use, I might buy one!

              Perhaps I'm just not the person Apple is trying to sell iPads to. (like I'm probably not the demographic Motorola is trying to sell CB's to) I doubt it, though. Being a techno gadget geek, I seem to be *exactly* in the group they want to sell to. But I also try to maintain some wisdom in my finances. I'm not just going to buy every device out there that companies make, just because they want me to, or because they're flashy gadgets.
              If your list of features is non-negotiable, then I suspect the iPad will never be for you. Apple is pushing for storage/transfer in either "the cloud" (MobileMe) or wirelessly transferred to a computer with a bigger drive (preferably a Mac of some sort, of course ). It may one day get a bigger internal flash drive but I suspect it won't be too big as it might cannibalize Airbook sales. The document creation is currently available (though quite limited and not at all suitable to a business environment--again, the Airbook would be a better option for that--bigger flash drive, 30 day battery on standby, and a proper computer with trackpad and keyboard, along with hookups for other devices). The iPad will also likely NEVER get a cell phone function (beyond Skype or something like it), as it would eat into iPhone sales and Apple definitely does not want that.

              Essentially, Apple is trying to cover a spectrum of uses with multiple products, which might overlap, but cannot do everything individually. The iPhone 4 is a lot like a mini-iPad, though its small size limits some of its abilities vis a vis the iPad. The Airbook is a more conventional laptop but very lightweight and with some features like the iPad. The iMac or MacMini make for good home use in the Apple world. The MacBooks give you more grunt power than the Airbook and a lot of the home functionality of the iMac--again, overlapping but not necessarily duplicating other devices.

              Ideally, for Apple, people would have an iPhone, iPad, Airbook/MacBook and an iMac/MacMini. Obviously, far more people choose to have one or two of these things and not all, but they are each slotted along a continuum. I have the iPhone and a MacBook Pro. As much fun as the iPad was when I played around with it, it did not offer me enough on its own that I cannot get with the iPhone 4 and MacBook Pro. And my MacBook is powerful enough that I don't need an iMac/MacMini. Because college textbook companies have all signed agreements with Apple for iBooks, I suspect I will have to get an iPad (or something like it) for work but I expect it will be a few more years before I do (textbooks in certain fields or of certain types--big, expensive survey texts in history and geography, for example--will likely move to a tablet only platform long before I retire and neither my phone or laptop would be convenient for such books).

              Someone may well make a device that meets your list of requirements but given what I see of the current Apple product line, I don't think the iPad will ever be it.

              Comment

              • Industrial
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2009
                • 213

                #52
                I just find my iPad comfy to use. Kinda like a book. And as for upgrading, like with my iPhone I can see myself getting every "other" generation and selling mine to help fund it. That's what I did with my iPhone 3g. I still use my PC for everything other then comfy web/video browsing. One thing I do hate is using Itunes, i miss copy/pasting music on a memory stick and just hitting play. Its probably why i stream all my music at the moment...

                Comment

                • Hammie
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 304

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Chris D
                  [...], cell phone capability, document storage/creation/editing, or maybe even retina display, I might have a compelling reason to buy the dang thing! And I'm LOOKING for excuses to buy it! Do I really have to wait a whole 'nuther year to find out if the next iPad will actually have more features, or again just be a better performing version of the same thing?

                  I don't need a CB radio, either. But if Motorola made a new CB radio with features I could actually use, I might buy one!

                  Perhaps I'm just not the person Apple is trying to sell iPads to. (like I'm probably not the demographic Motorola is trying to sell CB's to) I doubt it, though. Being a techno gadget geek, I seem to be *exactly* in the group they want to sell to. But I also try to maintain some wisdom in my finances. I'm not just going to buy every device out there that companies make, just because they want me to, or because they're flashy gadgets.
                  I find it very interesting that the things I bolded in your post are either available in some form or would be ridiculous. Let's take them one at a time...

                  Cell phone -- You could use Skype. I also think there is a way to use Google Voice with the iPad. However, you may look silly holding a device like that to your ear.

                  Document creation -- I use it daily to take notes at work, write papers for my class, even draw network diagrams. I can use either Google Docs or MobileMe iDisk to store my documents and retrieve them from a laptop or desktop at a later date. PDFs can even be annotated as I have done this in the past for my classes, too. Add a bluetooth keyboard, and typing is by no means hindered.

                  Retina Display -- This is just silly. The same pixel density on the iPhone would be a higher resolution than the iMac 27" (2560x1440). The cost for a screen of that resolution would also be way too expensive. BTW,to get similar pixel density as the iPhone 4's Retina Desplay, the iPad would need a resolution of 2560x1920. That is higher than and Blu-ray on the market. A more appropriate upgrade would probably be 1920x1440. The 4:3 screen ratio would cause a different ratio than the normal 1920x1080 16:9 screen.
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                  Comment

                  • impala454
                    Ultra Senior Member
                    • Oct 2007
                    • 3814

                    #54
                    The extremely simple reason they didn't do a higher resolution is it would have screwed up their currently building mass of iPad specific apps. Some apps might be easy for the developers to change, but others would be a pain, and it would piss off the customers if they needed to purchase Angry Birds for the third time just so they could use the higher resolution on their new iPad 2.

                    My buddy who has an iPad brought it over yesterday while we were chilling watching TV. I must say the board games he has on there (monopoly and risk) are very fun to play. It's a little annoying having to pass the thing back and forth though, and we joke that I need to get one too. Only problem is I don't have $500 to blow so I can play some board games from the couch :P I played around with this iPad surfing the web and doing things I might normally do... just still can't justify it yet. Oh well.. maybe some time.
                    -Chuck

                    Comment

                    • Chris D
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Dec 2000
                      • 16877

                      #55
                      Well, I don't think my desired features in the iPad are non-negotiable. Actually, if they had just added only one or two more features, I might spring for the iPad 2, even if it didn't fill EVERY need! Oh, well. Not every device is for every user.

                      Originally posted by Hammie
                      Cell phone -- You could use Skype. I also think there is a way to use Google Voice with the iPad. However, you may look silly holding a device like that to your ear.
                      Well, being currently deployed overseas without cell phone capability, I actually use Skype quite a bit, and am intimately familiar with its function and limitations. It's handy when you're halfway around the world with no telephone around. But if cell phone capability is an option, I choose it every time. The iPhone can do Skype. But for some strange reason, Apple chose to put cell phone capability into the iPhone, not just say, "well, you can use Skype with it, so we're not going to add that capability for you". But I'm not going to rely on Skype for my calls if cell phone functionality is possible, any more than if, hypothetically, Apple had said, "well, we could give you a virtual keyboard, but we're going to keep that for a future upgrade, and just make you write out each letter with the classic finger writing recognition feature. Or if they had said, "well, we could give you a color display, but we'll just give you B&W until next year." I wouldn't say "well, that's good enough!"

                      And I think you're now the third person to say how silly it is to hold an iPad to your ear, when I and others keep saying repeatedly, over and over, that the idea would be to have a detachable headset that you would use for the cell phone calls, not hold the actual iPad up to your head. :roll:

                      The document capability thing, I'll just leave at saying yes, I bought an app for my iPhone so I can read and edit Microsoft Office documents. So I know it can be done, but the processes for editing, storing, and transferring documents is quite a pain when you compare with what Windows-based products can do.

                      As for the retina display, I agree, on a smaller screen like the iPad, or especially the iPhone, you don't need 5 million lines of pixels. Not looking for that. But, as you point out, comparing size for relative size, the iPad has less than half the resolution density of its sister, the iPhone! So while 5 billion lines aren't needed, I think they can do better than 768. They chose not to make it any better, though. Again, we don't have any proof, but it seems that Apple could do a better screen, but for whatever reason chooses not to. It's not like tablets will never have more resolution than 768 lines. It's going to happen some day, so if you can do it now, why wait? Cost? Politics? Marketing? You're just delaying the inevitable.
                      CHRIS

                      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                      - Pleasantville

                      Comment

                      • Ovation
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Sep 2004
                        • 2202

                        #56
                        Of all the things you would like to see, actual cellphone capability will be the last, if ever, to be implemented. Apple will tell you, "want a cell phone? We have this excellent device, the iPhone. Perhaps you've heard of it?" In no way, shape or form does Apple want to divert a sale from the iPhone to an iPad (the profit margin on an iPhone is a LOT higher on the phone than the pad). They want you to have a phone AND a pad and would rather see you get a phone if you're not going to buy both.

                        As for the display, cost is a factor as, currently, no other tablet company can match the iPad on price. Since Apple is already taking a far smaller profit margin to maintain market share (a time-honoured business practice), it is a perfectly sound business decision to delay implementing a better display until the cost of doing so comes down--especially as the segment of potential buyers who would care is very small.

                        Comment

                        • Chris D
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Dec 2000
                          • 16877

                          #57
                          One thing I have to wonder is, if Apple is holding out on anything that is possible, which of their competitors will implement it instead? Will Android put out a tablet with phone capability? If it's possible, SOMEBODY is going to do it. And then if they do it well enough and generate the business, Apple will have no choice but to give in and finally do it anyway. Perhaps the answer to the unasked question is, "we're going to hold out as long as the market allows us to."

                          Fair enough.
                          CHRIS

                          Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                          - Pleasantville

                          Comment

                          • Hammie
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2005
                            • 304

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Chris D
                            One thing I have to wonder is, if Apple is holding out on anything that is possible, which of their competitors will implement it instead? Will Android put out a tablet with phone capability? If it's possible, SOMEBODY is going to do it. And then if they do it well enough and generate the business, Apple will have no choice but to give in and finally do it anyway. Perhaps the answer to the unasked question is, "we're going to hold out as long as the market allows us to."

                            Fair enough.
                            I really do not think voice cell phone technology will ever make it into a tablet device. Web phone capabilities will take on before it. Of course, I could be eating my words in the next couple years.

                            I am really disappointed that the screen resolution did not increase even a bit (1920x1440). I feel this could have been done without too many issues with developers even though it is 1.875 and not an even 2 or 3 (like the iPhone 4 upgrade was). I feel if anything was held back, it was the resolution.

                            The iPad 2 is not enough of a justification to upgrade for me right now. I have had no issues with the video or memory. I would love to see the iPad 3 have bigger HDDs, better resolution, and possibly easier sharing between documents/apps. Even then, they are nice to haves and do not limit the ways I can use it today.
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                            Comment

                            • aarsoe
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2004
                              • 795

                              #59
                              I love the fact that so many people have so many opinions about Apple products. As far as I am concerned no one is forced to buy them so if you don't like it then don't.

                              However no matter how you twist and turn it Apple consistently make products that do set the standard for the entire market. Tablets were a joke before iPads. At least people are taking a new stab at creating something that people outside warehouse inventorying will actually use. Unibody notebooks have also forced competitors to do better and more sturdy designs. Finally looking at the outrageous prices companies like Crestron were charging for their touch panel remotes makes iPads seem like something sent from heaven. Oh - and Airplay will surely change everything on the wireless music side. Just look at the latest announcement from intel.
                              So guess my bottom line is let's give credit were credit is due. The iPad may not be perfect. It may never be perfect - and I would never give up my pc in a million years, but it does do a lot of things very well. In fact I love mine and use it far more than I should.

                              Comment

                              • Chris D
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Dec 2000
                                • 16877

                                #60
                                iPad 2 is sure selling pretty good. Lots of interesting sales demographics stats in this article, too: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/...yers/?hpt=Sbin

                                And I found it interesting that Brooks Brothers has put their Spring catalog onto the iPad as an app. (and ONLY the iPad, not the iPhone) Interesting application, another way to make a traditionally physical paper product into an electronic product. Great idea--anyone interested in that company's product can access the full catalog with the click of a button. Take it with you, without having the bulk of an additional catalog/magazine.

                                In other news, looks like Adobe is trying to make things more accommodating for Apple products, to get around the "Flash don't work so good on Mac stuff" issue:
                                For decades -- dating back to the 1980s -- Apple and Adobe Systems have had a deeply troubled relationship. The most recent phase of their ongoing struggle has been over whether Flash (Adobe's hugely popular proprietary format for adding animation, video, and interactivity to web pages) would run on Apple mobile devices.
                                CHRIS

                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                - Pleasantville

                                Comment

                                • JohnA
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Apr 2005
                                  • 2179

                                  #61
                                  This is how Apple sales are driven.... :W

                                  Comment

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