BIG BAD single chip DLP

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  • Brandon B
    Super Senior Member
    • Jun 2001
    • 2193

    BIG BAD single chip DLP

    I am going to try my damndest to get my hands on one of these at work.

    Note the contrast.

    No good for me at home since it is single chip DLP, but I am drooling anyway.

    BB
  • George Bellefontaine
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Jan 2001
    • 7637

    #2
    5000 Ansi Lumens !

    I'd need sunglasses. This PJ must be for large venue display requirements. No mention of price, but if it is around 25 to 30K you can get a 3 chipper dlp in that price range today for home theater use.
    My Homepage!

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    • JonMarsh
      Mad Max Moderator
      • Aug 2000
      • 15254

      #3
      Not really "portable", but I like the 1400X1050 resolution - just think how much better MY PowerPoints would look, assuming it has a decent D6500 mode. I just hate what the little Dell DLP's do to color rendition- light olive drab for "yellow", for example. Nice on/off contrast ratio specs.

      No MSRP.... I suppose if you have to ask, it's going to be too much...

      Well, I'm saving up my pennies, nickels, and quarters for an NEC 10PG (9" CRTs) that Curt Palme has, will re-furb later this fall. (new tubes). So I guess a big DLP is out of the question for now... :rofl:

      Let us know what you think, Brandon, if you get to see one....


      ~Jon
      the AudioWorx
      Natalie P
      M8ta
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      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

      Comment

      • Brandon B
        Super Senior Member
        • Jun 2001
        • 2193

        #4
        Originally posted by George Bellefontaine
        I'd need sunglasses. This PJ must be for large venue display requirements. No mention of price, but if it is around 25 to 30K you can get a 3 chipper dlp in that price range today for home theater use.
        Not really excited about this for home use at all, it has an RGBW 1X color wheel.

        From the comparative pricing of their other stuff (if you remember I did a little evaluation of their F1 SXGA last year which is similar to this thing except 3000 lumens and 1000:1 contrast, and not at the same time either), I would guess this thing is going to come in at or under $20K.

        The nearest equivalent 3 chip for non-ht right now are Panasonic's 7600 and 7500 (6000 lumens SXGA and 5000 lumens XGA), which have both just been discontinued. Both were about 1000:1 with special lenses (built in irises that lowered light output). The new 7700 allegedly does 3000:1 and has a dynamic iris (like the rumored Sony HS51 replacement for the HS20 and its mfr stated CR of 6000:1 frame sequential, 1500:1 onff per single frame). It is SXGA+ (1400x1050) also, and is in the $25-30K range without a lens.

        The only reasons this thing is piquing my interest so is the contrast figure, its small size, and the general quality of design I have seen in these guys' products.

        I will certainly be checking one out as soon as it is available and will report back then.

        It really does seem as if we are going to see a new generation of digital PJs that GREATLY narrow the contrast advantage for CRTs. I'd hold to my $$ for a couple months, Jon, and see if the new Sony really does what they claim. If it does, there's going to be a quick scramble as everyone adjusts to the new paradigm of a 4th light modulator.

        BB

        Comment

        • JonMarsh
          Mad Max Moderator
          • Aug 2000
          • 15254

          #5
          Yeah, I've been following the light modulator discussion on the HS-51; it's one of those things that's pretty clever sounding, but I wonder how well it works in hardware, and if there aren't unintended consequences.

          Having worked on one guy's 10HT, (SMART calibration for him) and had the opportunity to borrow it a couple of times, I have to say that the fill factor and SDE are something of an issue for me; I don't have a very big screen, but I sit close; the picture with my NEC 9PG plus is just gorgeous, no visiible scan lines (1080i), great color and contrast ratio (the best I've ever had, including my CRT direct views), nice detail but very "film like". I can see why a lot of folks say that if you can get past the setup, the PG series is a great projector, especially becuase of the color corrected elements. Very natural flesh tones, with appropriately vivid colors, and Ferrari red that looks like Ferrari red, not Corvette orange.

          With the filtered (K&R glass enhancing filter) and calibrated 10HT on the same screen, with my 10/15 corrected vision, the pixel structure is too visible. Fleshtones are not as natural, and of course, though it's a lot better than a standard Sony, there's no point in talking about blacks. I don't know how the HS-51 would improve on the color rendition or pixel structure; I suspect the only cure is a longer viewing distance, which I don't really desire, and because of room layout, isn't easy to accomplish without some major changes.

          But who knows? Still, when they're out, I'll go take a look at them.

          Another think I like about my PG is that it turns on an produces a pic in about 10 seconds; and turn-off doesn't have that bulb projector cool down cycle. The Sony is quieter, but not all that much; the PG's are nothing like a big Barco or a Sony 1292 (which is like a hurricane- they have over a dozen fans, IIRC. :lol:

          ~Jon
          the AudioWorx
          Natalie P
          M8ta
          Modula Neo DCC
          Modula MT XE
          Modula Xtreme
          Isiris
          Wavecor Ardent

          SMJ
          Minerva Monitor
          Calliope
          Ardent D

          In Development...
          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
          Obi-Wan
          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
          Modula PWB
          Calliope CC Supreme
          Natalie P Ultra
          Natalie P Supreme
          Janus BP1 Sub


          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

          Comment

          • Brandon B
            Super Senior Member
            • Jun 2001
            • 2193

            #6
            Oh I wasn't suggesting you'd be satisfied with the Sony instead of CRT, even at a real 6000:1. I was just saying that if it really does perform as advertised, you will see a rash of other machines, DILA and DLP, doing the same thing inside a year I bet, or the Sony will be causing them a lot of hurt at its price. And one of THOSE machines might tickle you.

            BB

            Comment

            • George Bellefontaine
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Jan 2001
              • 7637

              #7
              I have to admit that I am a bit intrigued by all this talk about the new Sony HS50 or 51 and its cr of 6000:1.
              My Homepage!

              Comment

              • JonMarsh
                Mad Max Moderator
                • Aug 2000
                • 15254

                #8
                Originally posted by Brandon B
                Oh I wasn't suggesting you'd be satisfied with the Sony instead of CRT, even at a real 6000:1. I was just saying that if it really does perform as advertised, you will see a rash of other machines, DILA and DLP, doing the same thing inside a year I bet, or the Sony will be causing them a lot of hurt at its price. And one of THOSE machines might tickle you.

                BB

                While we're dreaming along those lines, think 1920X1080 LCOS, with light modulation to fix the contrast issues; the "smoothness" of image with DILA is probably it's biggest attraction to me, for a digital solution.

                That does possibly point the way to a digital projector solution that really hits all the bases- contrast ratio, brighntess uniformity, image smoothness and detail, and fill factor. Just gotta find a way to make a lower cost lamp than a big honking Xenon that has a good color balance without a buch of additional filtering.

                I suspect we won't see that under $10K for a few years, though!
                the AudioWorx
                Natalie P
                M8ta
                Modula Neo DCC
                Modula MT XE
                Modula Xtreme
                Isiris
                Wavecor Ardent

                SMJ
                Minerva Monitor
                Calliope
                Ardent D

                In Development...
                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                Obi-Wan
                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                Modula PWB
                Calliope CC Supreme
                Natalie P Ultra
                Natalie P Supreme
                Janus BP1 Sub


                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                Comment

                • Brandon B
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Jun 2001
                  • 2193

                  #9
                  The PJ you describe is coming, can't say exactly when (cuz that I don't know). But it is. And it does not have a xenon lamp. Or the under $10k price either.

                  Anyway, back to ProjectionDesign:

                  Got to look at the Christie rebadge of another one of theirs:

                  This baby.

                  Spent about 45 minutes with it today. Did not have time to calibrate it at all, beyond choosing the D6500 option in the menu. Environment was a completely light controlled everything-matte-black-except-the-screen projection test room. Source was a little AMD video server we built in a micro shuttle case with a Radeon 9800 all-in-wonder, and pioneer DVD ROM and the software DVD player that came with the pioneer drive. Connected through DVI, sent at the 1400x1050 native rez of the PJ. Screen is a 2ish gain, I again don't remember. Image was about 8' wide. Media was DVE video image montage. Some quick and cursory impressions. (I'll do a separate thread with something more resembling a review next week after I have really spent some time with it.)

                  Very similar to the F1 SXGA (Christie DS30) I played with last year. I am not sure if this Christie model even has an exact PD counterpart. It was nice and bright (I am the very first user out of the box). Did not have the DVI glitch the last one did, and the color was much nicer. Yellows were still pretty green, but reds and blues were very nice. Black level was pretty darn good at 2500 lumens. The image was in the middle of a very large screen (30' wide or so), so I was comparing it to unilluminated screen on three sides and black border at the bottom.

                  Rainbows - this is not an HT unit, but . . . Keeping in mind I am very very susceptible to seeing these: I could see them very plainly. They were definitely not as visible as they are on something like an X1. Probably about the same as I see on the IF 4805. For comparison, my two coworkers saw them guy#1 only a little, and he says he sees them on lower end business PJs, but not really at all on nicer HT units. guy#2 Saw them ONLY on the jumping ballet dancer dressed in white when she does the midair leg flutter. Says he has not really ever seen them before at all.

                  So from this vast cross section of population, I'd say this business machine performs pretty well in this respect, in its high brightness mode (white segment in use).

                  Dithering, could be seen in low black areas, but again an uncalibrated unit so no conclusion to be made.

                  This machine came with composite cable, svideo cable, component cables, VGA cable AND a DVI cable. And it is tiny, cool looking and quiet.

                  All this bodes well for the F3 being a pretty spiffy professional machine. And guy#1 has evidently got a promise from our vendor to get one in ASAP.

                  Yes, today I love my job.

                  BB

                  Comment

                  • George Bellefontaine
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Jan 2001
                    • 7637

                    #10
                    Yes, today I love my job

                    I can certainly see why, Brandon. Thanks for the interesting review. Would loved to have been there.
                    My Homepage!

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