Z2 Burn in on LCD Panels???

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • marco10
    Junior Member
    • May 2004
    • 24

    Z2 Burn in on LCD Panels???

    Can anybody help me here? Last night I left my Sanyo Z2 on with the DVD player's screen logo on for about 15 min. DVD player is a Smasung HD931 and the logo says "Samsung Digitall - everyone's invited". So at about 15 Min, the logo turned red, I then turned off the projector and let it cool down for an hour. I then played a movie and the logo was visible in the background. Tried with a different DVD player but the logo was still there, the picture was displayed fine but the logo was in the background. Anybody have an idea of what this could be? Is the logo burned into one of the LCD panels? Any help would be great.
    :righton:
  • Lex
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Apr 2001
    • 27461

    #2
    That is awefully fast for this to occur. Scare's me,that's for sure. I know my 2HD cuts off if it doesn't receive a signal within a set number of seconds. I guess your DVD player kept it from doing that? I would say this is a real problem. I beliver you need to contact Sanyo.

    Lex
    Doug
    "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

    Comment

    • Kevin P
      Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 10809

      #3
      LCDs aren't supposed to burn in (at least not permanently), but it's possible for LCDs in projectors to suffer heat damage. What was the color of the logo and the lettering?

      It shouldn't have happened that fast though. If you put on varying material, has the "burned" image started to fade?

      Is the projector in a hush box, or anything that could interfere with cooling?

      Comment

      • marco10
        Junior Member
        • May 2004
        • 24

        #4
        Thanks for the input guys. My DVD player which is a Samsung HD931 has a screen saver that starts after about 5 Min. when there is no play, so yes this is really weird that this happened so fast. It was on the screen logo and just as it was about to start the screen saver, the logo which is in white lettering on a blue background, turned red, after about another 5 min with the red image I turned it off and let it cool down. Yes I played about 5 different movies to see if it would go away but no luck. I do believe the image has burned into one or all of the LCD panels, don't know if this is possible but that's what it looks like to me. I have contacted Sanyo and they are going to repair it under warranty. They tell me 2 to 3 weeks, is that right? I though they had a quicker turn around time.
        :righton:

        Comment

        • Kevin P
          Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 10809

          #5
          If you put an all-white image up (say a 100 IRE gray field on VE or Avia), do you see the burned image? What color is it?

          If you put an all-black image up (black field, or 10 IRE gray), do you see the burned image? What color is it?

          The answers can help us determine which of the panels was affected.

          At least they said they would repair it under warranty.

          Another possibility I thought of is a faulty LCD drive circuit can cause "burn in". I've heard of this happening on some Dell laptops. Did Sanyo say anything about this happening on any other units? Is it a common problem?

          Comment

          • Brandon B
            Super Senior Member
            • Jun 2001
            • 2193

            #6
            It would be really weird for it to actually be "burned" in.

            We see a lot of "stuck" images in LCD PJs we install, but they have been showing a static image for 15-20 minutes out of every half hour, 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, and it doesn't occur for a month or 3. And they can usually be "unstuck" by playing other material for a couple of hours.

            I would have said what happened to yours is impossible if asked theoretically. I wonder if it is an actual burning phenomenon of some sort, or some issue with the drive electronics.

            Please definitely let us know what turns up.

            BB

            Comment

            • marco10
              Junior Member
              • May 2004
              • 24

              #7
              I am dropping off my unit at Sanyo today, so I haven't yet explained to them the problem, I am curious to know what they say about this, considering that my unit is new only 161 hours on it and 2 months old. The so called "burned image" cannot be seen on dark scenes it is not even vissible on bright scenes, it appears when there is more than 3 or 4 ranges of colors displayed during a scene. I don't think it is a burn-in issue either and agree with you guys about it being a circuit problem. I will surely come back here with the details of the whole repair process and what the problem is and what may have caused this.
              :righton:

              Comment

              • Dean McManis
                Moderator Emeritus
                • May 2003
                • 762

                #8
                Yeah, I think that "burn-in" is a misnomer. I've also run my LCD rear projector for days straight with a fixed image, and also played games with white lettered fixed graphics and scores for many hours with no effects. 8)

                It might be some memory buffer effect, or something particularly wrong with your unit.

                But if it's some sort of design flaw with the Z2 it would great to know about it, because the unit has otherwise recieved great praise. :B

                -Dean.

                Comment

                • marco10
                  Junior Member
                  • May 2004
                  • 24

                  #9
                  Hello all. Just got my Z2 back from service. 3 day turn around! Pretty good. They actually had alot of questions for me about how this happened because the people at the Sanyo warranty division have never seen anything like this and the technicians had no idea what could have caused this, basically this had them all scratching their heads. The guy I spoke with told me it wasn't the LCD panels that were "burned" but something about the lazer, I didn't quite understand him because he wasn't the technician. Anyway they repaired it under warranty and all is well.
                  :righton:

                  Comment

                  • Kevin P
                    Member
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 10809

                    #10
                    Originally posted by marco10
                    The guy I spoke with told me it wasn't the LCD panels that were "burned" but something about the lazer, I didn't quite understand him because he wasn't the technician. Anyway they repaired it under warranty and all is well.
                    Sounds like he was bluffing, or you misheard him, since there is no laser in the projector. Maybe he meant the polarized sheets over the LCD panels? Maybe they overheated or something and had the image "burned" (or melted) onto them? If that happened, then the projector has a cooling or ventilation problem.

                    Comment

                    • Brandon B
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Jun 2001
                      • 2193

                      #11
                      I'm with Kevin. Any chance you misheard "polarizer" as laser? If not, I am guessing he misheard it from the tech.

                      This is something I can well believe would happen in a defective PJ, say one with the initial UV reflector/filter MISSING, that the first polarizing plate would get a nasty burn.

                      BB

                      Comment

                      • George Bellefontaine
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Jan 2001
                        • 7637

                        #12
                        I too believe he was referring to the polariser. Overheating those puppies can do a lot of damage to the image. Wonder if they checked to make sure the fan was operating properly. ALSO HAVE TO KEEP THOSE FILTERS CLEAN.
                        My Homepage!

                        Comment

                        • marco10
                          Junior Member
                          • May 2004
                          • 24

                          #13
                          Hi Guys. I called Sanyo and spoke with a tech. this time. The person I talked to before wasn't even a salesman or a tech. Can you believe it was the receptionist???!! Anyway, what was replaced was the LCD Prism Assy. But what I don't know, and neither do they (Sanyo), is what caused it. The Technician I spoke to the second time told me he would give me a call to let me know what the cause could have been. Lazer? That didn't sound right at all.
                          :righton:

                          Comment

                          • Brandon B
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Jun 2001
                            • 2193

                            #14
                            The optical blocks in newer (everything after the XP21) sanyos are one piece assemblies, individual components are not replaceable, so that replacement included prisms, polarizers, LCD panels and some other stuff.

                            Let us know if you hear more.

                            THanks.

                            BB

                            Comment

                            • Brandon B
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Jun 2001
                              • 2193

                              #15
                              OK, I've now seen posts from 3 other Z2 owners (on another forum) with burn problems at low hours. Starting to think Sanyo has an issue here.

                              Any other Z2 owners here see any hint of yellowing anywhere in their image? Put up the plain 'no signal' blue screen and look really closely, should be visible.

                              BB

                              Comment

                              • JonMarsh
                                Mad Max Moderator
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 15254

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Brandon B
                                The optical blocks in newer (everything after the XP21) sanyos are one piece assemblies, individual components are not replaceable, so that replacement included prisms, polarizers, LCD panels and some other stuff.

                                Let us know if you hear more.

                                THanks.

                                BB

                                Now, the dust isolation on that kind of system is good, but the servicability is poor- that would be an expensive repair for an owner out of warranty.

                                Curious to see how this plays out....

                                ~Jon
                                the AudioWorx
                                Natalie P
                                M8ta
                                Modula Neo DCC
                                Modula MT XE
                                Modula Xtreme
                                Isiris
                                Wavecor Ardent

                                SMJ
                                Minerva Monitor
                                Calliope
                                Ardent D

                                In Development...
                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                Obi-Wan
                                Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                Modula PWB
                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                Natalie P Ultra
                                Natalie P Supreme
                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                Comment

                                • Brandon B
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Jun 2001
                                  • 2193

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                  Now, the dust isolation on that kind of system is good, ~Jon
                                  Change that to OUGHT to be good. My sanyo is probably the WORST, bar none, PJ I have ever seen for dust on the optics that is visible on the screen. The provided filters were absolute crap, the replacements sanyo shipped out within 2 months were semi-mitigated crap. I had to tape 2 large blisters of "evil orange" HVAC register filter material over the existing filter openings to prevent a weekly dust blowout to even use the PJ. And I still have to clean it every few months. Others seem to have a little more luck than I, but my house is not particularly dusty.

                                  If I now find out they are more susceptible to blue plate issues than most other LCD units, going to have to really look hard at ever considering one of their display products again. At home or at work.

                                  BB

                                  Comment

                                  • JonMarsh
                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 15254

                                    #18
                                    I can really understand your concerns, given that experience. Even Sony went through several iterations of filter design in the 1XHT series projectors; especially if they're mounted on ceiling and the filter is then on the top, this seems to be a problem.

                                    ~Jon
                                    the AudioWorx
                                    Natalie P
                                    M8ta
                                    Modula Neo DCC
                                    Modula MT XE
                                    Modula Xtreme
                                    Isiris
                                    Wavecor Ardent

                                    SMJ
                                    Minerva Monitor
                                    Calliope
                                    Ardent D

                                    In Development...
                                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                    Obi-Wan
                                    Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                    Modula PWB
                                    Calliope CC Supreme
                                    Natalie P Ultra
                                    Natalie P Supreme
                                    Janus BP1 Sub


                                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                    Comment

                                    • fstik
                                      Junior Member
                                      • Nov 2004
                                      • 2

                                      #19
                                      LCD burn can be a problem but is not permanent like CRT's I am an engineering tech for a company that builds LCD projectors for MRi environments. I had an issue several months ago where a static image was left on a PJ for a 2 day burn in. The image was left in the LCD display after the source was changed or disconnected. With a little research, I found that there is roughly a 3:1 time ratio for the burned image to dissappear. So, if your image was burned in for 24 hours, it will take at least 72 hours of use for the image to be removed. After about 6 days of constant use, the PJ mentioned above had a clean image. Polarizers usually made of glass with possibly an overlay and shouldn't aquire any image characteristics. The prisms usually have some sort of optical coating, but shouldn't retain any image as well. If something was "burned" into either of those components due to a heat issue, there would probably be physical damage elsewhere. Just my two cents. Hope it helps.

                                      Robert

                                      Comment

                                      • Brandon B
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Jun 2001
                                        • 2193

                                        #20
                                        That's the memory effect, we encounter that a lot too.

                                        What Marco has is an actual burn problem. The organic layer on the one of the polarizer plates actually is ubrned/degraded, typically the blue one, probably by the heat and any residual UV that gets through the filtering, to the point where it is no longer stopping the non-blue portion of the spectrum. You then end up with yelowing of the image. Almost any LCD will do this over a long enough time frame (5000-50,000 hours depending on model).

                                        Marco's unit was clearly made with some defect that caused it to occur almost immediately.

                                        BB

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        😀
                                        😂
                                        🥰
                                        😘
                                        🤢
                                        😎
                                        😞
                                        😡
                                        👍
                                        👎
                                        Searching...Please wait.
                                        An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                        Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                        An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                        Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                        An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                        There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                        Search Result for "|||"