Projector delimma

**JonMarsh** · 03 September 2003, 18:19 Wednesday

Hi Lex,

Welcome to the wild and wacky world of FP TV.

Only single chip DLP chips, which have rotating color wheels and sequential color display, have rainbows (except when you're watching anything on the Wizard of Oz). LCD's like the Panny, Sanyo PLV series, don't. Be cautious of DLP which don't have 5X or 6X color wheels, or are primarily designed for presentation projection; they have "clear" segments as well as color segments in the wheels, and have more rainbows and lack color fidelity. Not important for PowerPoint, but critical for video.

You really need to see them before you buy, to have an idea of what you're getting into, and the tradeoffs. I'm not a 4:3 guy any more, so I wouldn't get anything except a widescreen unit; you may have different feelings, but possibly that will change as conventional NTSC is supposed to be phased out in two years or so. If you don't want to spend a bundle, and 1/4 HD resolution is Ok with you, the Sanyo PLV-Z1 is certainly one to take a look at (964X544 resolution, 700 lumens, 800:1 claimed contrast ratio, HDTV format compatible).

Be advised that MOST of the recent projector introductions have been supplied or designed around short throw lenses- a 17 foot projection distance will be a problem for many, unless there's an optional lens available- and when they are, they aren't cheap. For example, a lens to fit a Sony 10HT/-12HT to convert it to long throw will cost as much as a Sanyo PLV-Z1. ($1299 typical).

Another XGA unit to check out (presuming 4:3 IS your thing) is the Dell 5200 MP.

In high res models, look at the Sanyo PLV-70 or the upcoming Sony HS-20, with further improved contrast and 12 Bit video processing and gamma. (translates to minimal posterization, better dark/shadow detail)

If you want excellent picture quality, especially contrast, the Hitachi HT1000 is a very good machine, but I would wait for the 16X9 HT1100 due out shortly.

It sounds like you're going to need to develop a checklist of what's most important to you, and work down the list to narrow down your choices. I'd add DVI inputs to your list of desired features, were I you, and looking for a new piece of hardware.

A good vendor for projectors to check with (pricing, esp.) is ProjectorPeople.

Good luck with your hunt.

~Jon

Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

**Andrew Pratt** · 03 September 2003, 23:12 Wednesday

I dunno, I'd like little or no screen door, as good a blacks and shadows as I can get, and I need to be able to project it 17 feet away to around an 80" wide screen. I'd also like as quite as possible.

Assuming you're going to sit 10 plus feet back screen door won't be much of an issue even with the Sanyo Z1 on that 92" diagonal screen...the bigger issue as Jon mentions is that 17 foot screen distance...most PJ's are going to have a problem with that. How come you have to go that far if you're planning on sitting in the 10 to 13 foot range? I assume its the valuted ceiling?

**Lex** · 04 September 2003, 00:39 Thursday

Jon, thanks for the tips. Unfortunately, I don't feel I have the time or patience to play the waiting game on new models. I'm without a primary display device for my great room, and for me, that's a big priority.

The Sharp is a 3X color wheel. But review seems positive on projector central. I'm not crazy about it not having component connections via RCA or BNC. But other than that, and the noise factor, it seems like a pretty decent choice on paper.

Well, I decided the first thing I needed was a reference point. So, I dropped by Best Buy tonight and picked up a projector. They had the X1, a Toshiba, and a ViewSonic PJ501.

It's not bad projecting on the wall tonight after tweaking it a bit. I'd be curious to see it on a screen. I can't say I am going to keep it at this point, but I needed some basis for comparison at any rate. I'll view a bit more, as I have 14 days before I have to make a final decision. Gives me something to watch, while I make my mind up too.

800 X 600 LCD, 1500 Lumens, 4:3 aspect, with 16:9 mode. Fairly short throw at around 10 feet for approx 80 inch width screen. So, Jon, your right about that throw problem. I don't know what my solution is yet.

I have seen a little screen door on this unit at times, especially at closer viewing than my normal 14-16 feet.

More later,
Lex

**Brandon B** · 04 September 2003, 10:30 Thursday

My take on your situtation:

Originally posted by Lex

I'm pondering the Panasonic 300U, given great reviews for an LCD pj. No real rainbow effect from what I hear. Apparently blacks and shadows are weaker on the LCD, but that's about all. 1699 price right now, not to bad. It's a quite 28 dB noise floor, loooong bulb life projected at 4000 hours. Maybe the best pick under 2K?

If your going to go with the under $3K group, and DVD is more important to you than HD, I would go with the Panasonic, as you can couple this with a D1 DVI deck and get a pretty significant PQ improvement over the other units (unless you are going HTPC route). HD more important, as John says, the Sanyo Z1 is a good bet.

I can get the Sharp PG-M20X for 1799, DLP. 1024 X 768, 1900 lumens, 1000:1 Contrast. Doesn't sound bad on paper, but what about in the flesh? Dunno.

George's HT1000 is appealing, except for the price, 4K. Ok, not George's actual PJ, but one like it.

The HT1000 is a good bet too, in the next price range. If DLP weaknesses don't bug you, and LCD's do, I'd go this way in this price range.

The Sanyo PLV-70, WXGA, 1366 X 768, 2200 lumens, probably a super nice DLP. Not sure I can spend 4400 bucks though. Better than the HT1000 now? Dunno.

I dunno, I'd like little or no screen door, as good a blacks and shadows as I can get, and I need to be able to project it 17 feet away to around an 80" wide screen. I'd also like as quite as possible.

PLV70 is LCD, not DLP. It has a few things going for you. It will almost do your screen size at 17' (90" wide). It is really really bright, and it looks beautiful fed a DVI signal. Blacks and shadow detail are really good for LCD, but any good DLP machine (HT1000) will better it's blacks, and some will better its shadow handling. I have a 10' scren adn sit at 11.5'. Screen door is pretty damn minimal, and I am acutely aware of it. I'm pretty sure that unless you're in the "I hate screendoor more than anything" camp, at your screen size and seating distance, this PJ would not bother you in that regard. It is not better than the HT1000, I'd actually call these 2 pretty comparable, with very different strengths and weaknesses.

It's perplexing what to do not really getting to see any of these before ordering.

Lex

Studio Experience allows a 2 week trial of the 20HD (PLV70 clone) with only return shipping to pay of you don't want the unit. I'd call AVS to get a better price than SE directly though. You could evaluate the 70, decide if that level of LCD gets you enough improvement to warrant the extra money, or decide if even nicer LCD's don't do it and you'd prefer DLP.

BB

**George Bellefontaine** · 04 September 2003, 13:01 Thursday

Well my first FP was a Zenith crt and it sorta spoiled me in the contrast and blacl level department. I next went with a Sharp lcd PJ but the screendoor was horrible. I was then given an opportunity to see a Sony VPL 400 lcd and I fell in love with the gorgeous picture. It never satisfied me in the contrast and black level department, but this pj had so many other good things going for it that I used it for 5 years ( still have it as a second PJ) and finally I went to DLP with the NEC HT1000, and now I hardly ever use to Sony because the NEC ( in my opinion, anway) is the next best thing to crt. It offers a very filmlike picture with excellent blacks and contrast. So I would not hesitate to recommend DLP, except for a couple of important things to be considered. Rainbows and headaches. I do see the occasional rainbow on the NEC ( which is a 4x color wheel) but they are rare and go so quickly they just don't bother me. And I don't suffer from headaches or viewing fatigue.

As for the Panny 300, I did see thi in a showroom. I believe it could have been tweaked better, but I really didn't notice screendoor at about 12 feet, and the contrast was certainly better than my old Sony.

First time FPers have it tough when they have nothing previously owned to compare the newer technologies with. But prices are so low now for Pjs like the 300 or say the Infocus X1, that if you do make an error it won't be a really expensive one.

Good luck.

My Homepage!

**Brandon B** · 04 September 2003, 13:56 Thursday

Just noted AVS is doing a special deal on the 20HD/PLV70 right now, so IFyou like that option, might be a good time to jump.

Or they might be clearing stock in preparation of CEDIA announcements.

BB

**Markj** · 04 September 2003, 21:12 Thursday

Just this last weekend I demoed the 300u at a Panasonic store. Never notice this store before and it’s close to a home depot where I spend most of my money lately. Any way I stop in thinking that most likely they would not have any projectors, but to my surprise they had the 300 and 200. Their demo room had no light control at all so the picture was washed out. I set dead center and about 10 feet from the screen. I could see some screen door when the background had very light colors. Not too bad though. They were using a panasonic screen which the sales guy say it was a re-badge Stewart. I was just about to buy when I read that new projectors would likely be announced by this Friday from CEDIA, so I will wait until then or maybe longer if something really interesting is announced. Sanyo has announced the z2 but they didn’t give out any info.

**Andrew Pratt** · 04 September 2003, 21:43 Thursday

Here's some Z2 info (note its not offically released yet but these are likely fairly accurate)

Resolution: 1280x720
Brightness: 700 ANSI lumens
Contrast: 1200:1
Horizontal and vertical lens shift
Noise: 27 dB
DVI/HDCP input
Catalogue price: 2000 € + VAT

More info

**Markj** · 04 September 2003, 23:14 Thursday

Thanks Andrew, there a lot of talk of projectors in the $2000 range which is were I am at.

Lex, if you are looking at other projectors don’t forget to look at the Epson tw 100. The contrast level was boosted to 800:1.

**Lex** · 04 September 2003, 23:53 Thursday

Guys, I know you mean well, but I'd really like it better if every other post didn't reference another forum, especially in my threads.

Thanks for your cooperation. As far as my buying from AVS, that's not to likely really.

On a more positive note, I watched some broadcast DirecTV tonight via the S-video on the ViewSonic PJ501, and it's not to bad really. But the highlight of the evening had to be turning on 5th Element Superbit. This very reasonably priced PJ really impressed me with it's color presentation except for the discoloration of reds, it was really quite striking. The focus and detail in 480P on Superbit is truly HD like quality. Since the price makes more sense for me currently, this PJ may just stay. I mean, I can enjoy it for a year, and still get a good bit of my 1300 back. That makes it a good idea with dollars tight anyway.

Lex

**Andrew Pratt** · 05 September 2003, 09:34 Friday

sorry doug just didn't much time to do what I'd liked to have done with the Z2 info.

This chart might be of some use though I know there's at least one error since the Z1 does have an econo mode

http://home.new.rr.com/cburbstheater/

**Brandon B** · 05 September 2003, 22:49 Friday

Um. OK.

Didn't realize there was any issue of competition, and thought it was directly applicable to your question.

BB

**Lex** · 06 September 2003, 01:36 Saturday

Generally speaking, and about no particular forum, I guess it's a few things combined have really rubbed me wrong a few times in the past, advertising resationships, exclusives, disagreement with some things, as well as perhaps jealousy to a degree.

Your comment to check their store wasn't unreasonable Brandon. Andrew, one of our mods, referencing a competing forum in an owner's thread really sent me over the edge here. He knows how competitive I am, or does now, lol.

Nough said.
Lex

**Jeff Hartford** · 07 September 2003, 00:24 Sunday

Lex-

I just picked up an Epson TW100- I suspect the last one out of Japan for $2100. I think it is an exceptional unit and would compare it with anything at that price and higher. It is a WXGA unit with contrast numbers that are very good. (If you read progcentral they rave about it). Again, it is not a long throw unit. If you could find one at a good price, I suspect you will be very pleased with it. I posted somewhere else asking your advise as to what would be the best way to connect my Denon 2900 to this unit? Thanks

Jeff Hartford

**Lex** · 07 September 2003, 02:23 Sunday

Thanks for the tip Jeff. I'll have to take a look for your post on the Denon need.

Lex

**Trevor Schell** · 10 September 2003, 10:09 Wednesday

Any decisions yet Lex??

Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
Sonically Enhanced
C5

**Lex** · 10 September 2003, 17:18 Wednesday

See the other thread Trevor, I purchased the ViewSonic PJ501. Love it!

Lex

Projector delimma

Projector delimma

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment