New HOT lcd projector

[George Bellefontaine]

The Sanyo PLV 70 is getting rave reviews over at Projectorcentral.com. If you think DLP is overtaking LCD, better read this review for an eye opener.




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[Brandon B]

Yup. Izza watta Ima gonna get, as soon as our CD rolls over at the end of the month.

Not only is it supposed to be spiffy image-wise (high contrast, bright, great color), BUT, finally a (very) sub-$10K projector with good quality internal scaling AND de-interlacing (reported so far).

Now the only question is Sanyo, Boxlight or Studio Experience badged version. Sanyo is being quoted at $5400 on preorder basis. SE 20HD iss $6400, but they give a 120 day lamp warranty (PLV 60 had some early lamp failure incidence) and I'm guessing a better dead pixel policy than maybe a presentation market vendor.

One issue I haven't been able to get an answer tp over at AVS is:

The SE 20HD has a color adjustment feature where you can do a screen grab, take a swatch of image (i.e. a person's face) and adjust the tone to how you feel that ought to be, and the unit will recalibrate color of the picture to that. Arguably nice than the conventional adjustment method. It was worded as though this was a feature only in the 20HD, not the PLV 70. Don't know.

Do you?

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Projector Central show the specs on both the Sanyo and the Boxlight. Specs looked the same to me unless i missed something. As for that grab and capture thing or adjusting skin tones and whatnot, I'd like to know more about that.




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[SteveG]

I would look be fore you buy. I've seen the PLV 60, the Runco LCD, and all of the Sonys, and none overcomes my primary objection to LCD projectors--screen door effect. I couldn't live with any of them.




Steve Goff

[Brandon B]

There are several threads on this over at AVS. In one, someone took closeup screenshots of the screendoor of the PLV-70 vs. the 60. There was great improvement (in his opinion because of the new MLA panels in the 70). The same person also did some experimenting with his XP21 (with MLA) and pretty well made a case for focusing slightly off the panel for better fill factor and minimal screen door, without losing any real sharpness.

Given the price of this unit, it's brightness, (reported) internal processing quality , etc., and the problems associated with DVI input on my previous candidate, the Hitachi 5500, it seems like a pretty easy choice to me.

Since I plan on buying from a dealer with a trial return poilcy, if I am mistaken, I'm not burnt.

However, since these will be in short supply for likely another 4-5 weeks, it will be a while before I can comment.

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Screendoor, it's the old argument about lcd. Then there is the rainbow effect of dlps. Truth is, some people are not bothered, or don't even see screen door or rainbows at 1.5 times screen width seating distance. The thing is, you have to demo both before you buy. But I have heard that Sony's 12HT and the Sanbyo PLV 70 have MLA which is supposed to lessen even further the screendoor effect.




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[Steve Goff]

I've seen the Sony 12HT, and it is the least objectionable I've seen of these LCD projectors, in terms of picture fill. (The early one I saw must have been poorly set up or defective, though, because it had serious problems. It was hard to believe the Sony rep was proud of that picture.) But the Sony still doesn't make it for me, despite MLA. The screen door simply breaks the spell too often. I hope the Sanyo is different, but I'm not holding my breath. And I had a very hard time getting a good picture out of the PLV 60, even using the service menus. I've heard that some of the problems with that unit have been ironed out with the 70, but seeing is believing.

On the other hand, the latest DLPs just look better overall in direct comparisons, and rainbows ar hard to find even when you're looking. But they too have problems, perhaps related to the dithering necessary to simulated full color from a single DMD panel, and after a while they just make my eyes and head hurt. (Not so the three panel DLPs, but their price is just too silly for most folks.)

My NEC XG85 CRT projector is pretty noisy, but the picture is worlds better than any LCD or single-panel DLP I've seen. But I'm still looking....




Steve Goff

[George Bellefontaine]

Digital has come a long way, Steve. I have both a crt and lcd and for me the only real issue is black levels on digital. But this is improving,too. Sounds like you have really sensitive eyes to be that bothered by screndoor and rainbows. Looks like you'll be sticking with the crt for awhile.




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[Brandon B]

Well, impulse rules again. I've ordered the SE HD20 version of the PLV70. AVS is giving a pretty killer price on it.

15 day trial period to test and return it if I don't like it.

I'll let you guys know what I see. Delivery mid-September.

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Well, from what I've read about this hot little number, you are gonna love it. I look forward to your review after you've had time to set it up properly .




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[Wireless]

It looks like a real winner. One cautionary note however, if you plan to use a HTPC, or scaler, there seems to be some problems with the initial beta unit that was tested. There is an unanswered question about the resolutions accepted from the DVI input, wouldn't accept the panels native resolution. The were also issues with color using the RGB analog inputs. If you don't plan on bypassing the internal scaler these problems don't apply.

If you don't mind could you test the RGBHV inputs and give a report back? Would be appreciated!




John
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[George Bellefontaine]

Yeah, I read the same things John refers to. That didn't bother me as I don't have or want a computer in my HT. But the RGB could be a problem I suppose if you're using that kind of connection for HDTV.




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[Brandon B]

I'll be feeding it with component 480i from a DVD player, and Svid from a Dishnet 501 and JVC SVHS deck for the foreseeable future, so no worries on the DVI/RGB issues.

As far as testing the RGB inputs for you, I will attempt to find a means to do so, but I have no such sources personally (mac guy, and it is thoroughly buried on a desk in another room). I do however work in a group that has a great deal of video equipment, so I will attempt to check something out on a property pass and do some tests.

Sort of torn on the screen issue (haha). I was going with a Stewart Grayhawk as my unit is not going to be ceiling mounted so the Firehawk won't work optimally. Bill Cushman and others over at AVS are very strong proponents of the Da-Lite Hipower from a performance AND a price perspective. Mr. Cushman seems to be extremely knowledgable about colorimetry and is basing this recommendation largely on those issues, but also on it's durability, opacity, and offangle performance due to its retro-reflective nature.

Anyone here with the background to comment for my opinion collection?

Thanks.

Brandon

[George Bellefontaine]

I'd take anything Bill Cushman says seriously. I learned a lot about my Sony VPL400 lcd projector from the writings and various internet posts by him. He knows his stuff, believe.




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[Brandon B]

Well, got the PJ Tuesday. I've done NO adjustment, and am watching on a 4'x8' sheet of styrofoam (a bit of gain, and pebbly). My screen (went with the high power) won't arrive for about 10 days. Also, my enitre room is painted white (for a week or two longer). So reflected screen light is a bad problem.

Anyway, the complete inappropriateness of my setup notwithstanding, here are some first impressions.

This is a fantastic projector. Screendoor is a complete non-issue for me. The pixels are roughly 2mm square on my 96" wide image. Between the MLA and adjusting the focus to improve fill, I cannot even see them unless I get within a yard or 2.

Scaling and deinterlacing are very good. Once I have tweaked the unit and have a real screen, I will be able to comment more realistically on these. But certain movies (usually with CGI source material, TS2, Fantasia2000, Final Fantasy) look stunningly great. FF brought back the memory of seeing it in a DLP equipped theater.

This thing is bright. When the screen goes white before Frodo in bed at Rivendell in LOTR, I was a tad blinded. Black level (as much as can be accurately comment on in my setup) is pretty grey, but in the context of the contrast of this unit, it is not objectionable to me at all. And I like black. Sort of the "bass" of video.

Anyway, I'll post more as I am able to make meaningful conclusions. I'll be running it through its VE adjustments Friday night, and will have my screen week after next for more comments. Anyone with any questions in the meantime, shoot.

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Regarding blacks. With that kind of lumens, you may have to pay extra attention to the contrast and brightness. Too little contrast and too much brightness will make blacks look grey.
Let us know how things are after you calibrate... especially on your screen when it comes.
Sure does sound good, though.

George




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[George Bellefontaine]

Brandon,
Have you done any calibrating yet ?




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[Brandon B]

Ooooooh I wish.

No, right now I am trying to finish the drywall adventure I began last January when I removed our fireplace for the HT (or family room and kitchen as my wife refers to it), wherein I recently cut a ceiling slot to recess mount my new screen to (re)discover water and gas pipes and wood structure I had forgotten about since observing the house's construction.

So now I am waiting for the drywall guy I made an appointment with 4 days ago to show up, give me an estimate, return and repair my stupidity, texture the area, my wife and I to paint the room, mount the screen, and calibrate the PJ, the watch some DAMN MOVIES.

So I should have a review to you guys easily in time to beat the release of the original Star Wars Trilogy on DVD, if not LOR Return of the King.

Aaaaaargh.

The more keenly empathetic of you may sense some frustration here.

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Yeah, well I been through a lot of that HT construction frustration myself, Brandon. Anyhow, don't fret. It will all come together eventually and think of all that great movie watching ahead for you and your wife.




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