I want my SED!!

[aud19]

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20061019/122482/

[RebelMan]

Jason, after thinking about it that's probably what I'm going to do. If it was 6 months, then I could (maybe) hold out. But with it being forecast that far down the road I'm going to have to do something - most likely the Samsung HP-S5073 plasma.

Hey David, I was in a similar situation not too long ago. With the continual SED push backs I had finally given into the fact that it's going to be awhile before they come out. Given my immediate display needs and requirements I decided to jump on the plasma display wagon.

I spent the better part of the year, on the order of six months, weeding though all of my display options and ultimately decided on the Pioneer PDP-6070HD. I have personally seen a SED display up close and personal so while I can say with 100% affirmation my 6070 is no SED it does come close enough to keep me happy for the forseeable future.

On the other hand, one significant benefit of owning the Pioneer is that it easily bests any display casework on the market today include the SED display that I have seen. The piano black bezel is absolutely gorgeous and disappears into the background after the lights go down. After living with it for a few weeks I realize I may have a very difficult time letting go of it when the time comes. Unless of course Pioneer adopts SED technology!

[aud19]

A site that has a constant stream of SED news/links etc:

http://www.sed-tv-reviews.com/

[WillyD]

Thanks for the link. I was actually gonna ask if you had heard anymore news.

[mmoeller]

I know there was a pending patent claim made against Canon. The inventors of the SED technique licensed the tech to Canon presumeably under the rules that they not go into a joint venture to produce displays. Oppsy... Toshiba. I'm not sure what the outcome is as of yet, but you might be waiting a while to get one of these.

The company's name was Nano-Proprietary. I just read on their website that Canon was denied a "summary judgement". Which I believe means they wanted it to be thrown out of court, but their story didn't hold water. The ruling acutally says that "Dead fish, don't swim..".

I suppose Canon and Toshiba will eventually pay off Nano-Proprietary, but it might make the sets cost more. *shrug* who knows.

[tf1216]

In the latest "Home Theatre" (pg. 30) issue the price of $10,000 was mentioned for a SED tv. Well at least until the new build house is up and running.

That put a huge damper on my weekend.

[Shawn Parr]

http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/17409.html

Looks like SED is no longer going to be held back due to legal issues. Now it becomes a mass manufacturing issue.

[steelgtr]

In the latest "Home Theatre" (pg. 30) issue the price of $10,000 was mentioned for a SED tv. Well at least until the new build house is up and running.

That put a huge damper on my weekend.

Me too!

What can I get in the meantime that displays SD well? Are the new (9th gen) plasmas any better than when I looked a few years ago? I have a Sony 32XBR-100 (XBR squared) that is the holy grail of analog and we still watch a lot of SD programming.


bob

[Hdale85]

10k initial cost.....probably so high because of the lack of toshiba's help now.

[aud19]

It's like a bloody soap opera :lol: :roll: Just release the damn things!!

[David Meek]

I'm glad I went ahead with my plasma purchase. What a cluster-f**k. :nonod:

[aud19]

Canon to Buy Out Toshiba's Share of SED, Inc.

January 16, 2007
By Ken Werner

Last Friday, Toshiba announced an agreement by which Canon will purchase from Toshiba all of Toshiba's outstanding shares of SED Inc. On completion of the purchase, SED Inc. will become a wholly owned subsidiary of Canon, effective January 29. The DigiTimes headline on Friday screamed, "Toshiba Bails on SED," but the situation is a bit more complicated than that.

In its latest version, Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display (SED) technology produces beautiful video images. But as a business, SED Inc. - the joint development and manufacturing venture formed by Canon and Toshiba in October 2004 - is in trouble.


The problem, as Insight Media has frequently reported, is cost. SED delayed its original introduction schedule for SED-TVs to redesign the panel for reduced cost, and Toshiba recently stated that initial production would be for professional studio monitors because SED could not compete in the consumer market.

But SED Inc. was not being bashful about promoting their handsome displays, and significant promotional events were mounted at CEATEC Japan and Flat Panel Display International in Japan. An "SED Theater" and a full schedule of appointments with editors and analysts were also set for CES, but then Toshiba and Canon cancelled all SED-related activities.

The issue, as reported in this space, was that licenses to use FED technology owned by Nano-Proprietary Inc. (Austin, TX; www.nanoproprietary.net), had been sold to Canon, who was free to assign them to Canon subsidiaries. However, Nano-Proprietary maintained, and a U.S. judge agreed, that SED Inc. was a joint venture, not a Canon subsidiary, and therefore not free to use the Nano-Proprietary licenses. The purchase makes SED Inc. a Canon subsidiary, presumably with full access to the Nano-Proprietary licenses.

<http://www.analog.com/AdvancedTV>

The decision that Canon would take over SED Inc. was reached following discussions between Canon and Toshiba based on the assumption of prolonged litigation with Nano-Proprietary if the original structure was retained. As a result of the discussions, it was decided that Canon will carry out the SED panel business independently in order to facilitate the earliest possible launch of a commercial SED-TV business.

SED-TV sets are to be introduced in Japan in the fourth quarter of this year as originally scheduled, Toshiba said, although Canon will reassess its future mass-production plans for SED panels.

While the decision announced today represents a major change in the relationship between Canon and Toshiba, each company is expected to make every effort to facilitate the smooth launch of its television business, the companies said. Mr. Kazunori Fukuma, the current president of SED Inc. appointed from Toshiba, will resign from Toshiba, after which he will be hired by Canon and continue to serve as SED Inc. president. In addition, plans call for Toshiba engineers on loan to SED Inc. to continue their assignments for the transition period, during which Canon will independently establish the SED panel business.

Despite the protestations of cheerful cooperation between the two companies during the transition, one has the feeling that Toshiba is relieved to be rid of its SED albatross. Canon was probably not the easiest of partners, particularly for a TV-maker like Toshiba who knows the tough realities of the consumer electronics business.

[aud19]

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

http://www.behardware.com/html/news/#8559

[Ovation]

Looks like a 1080p plasma is becoming my prime choice then.

[aud19]

Pioneer's apparently been showing off a 1080p plasma with an at least 20,000:1 contrast...won't be cheap though at least initially Haven't heard how it is with things like phosphor lag though...

It's a real shame...SED seemed to solve pretty much all the negatives of other displays, no motion problems, contrast/black levels etc...just too late to the party and legal issues to boot

[Ovation]

I've never seen phosphor lag (though I've seen LCD motion blur) and as burn-in seems to be a "solved" issue (i.e., no worse than on my current SD CRT), I can live with the risk.

I don't think I'll be getting an HD display (of any type) before September, and quite likely next January, so I hope by then a reasonably decent 50 inch 1080p plasma will be available at around the 4000$ dollar mark. I've done three comparison views of one hour plus each of HDTVs in the last little while and, so far, plasmas have looked best each time. The SED option, when I first read about it, seemed ideal and I was prepared to wait, but it looks like it won't see the light of day. Some of the best LCDs look really good, but they seem less vibrant than plasmas. Every RPTV I've looked at (SXRD, HD-ILA, DLP, LCD) suffers from silk-screen effect (even when I've been able to turn the brightness and contrast way down from torch mode), which stinks because I can accommodate the deeper cabinet and I don't see rainbows. If I were choosing tomorrow, my finalists would be the Pioneer 5070, the Samsung 5073, the Bravia V2500 and the JVC LCD 46 inch (don't remember the model number)--in my price range (Canadian dollars). Money no object, the Pioneer 1080p plasma would be arriving tomorrow to my house.

[David Meek]

Pioneer's apparently been showing off a 1080p plasma with an at least 20,000:1 contrast...

Jason, the info I've been seeing is that Pioneer plans to have it in production well before the 2008 Olympics (in Beijing). I'm not sure of the signifigance of the Olympics to an HDTV production schedule though....

[EAmin]

The new Pioneer Plasmas are coming out this Summer. Not in 2008.

[RebelMan]

Every RPTV I've looked at (SXRD, HD-ILA, DLP, LCD) suffers from silk-screen effect (even when I've been able to turn the brightness and contrast way down from torch mode)...

Precisely! Which is too bad because they are much more affordable.

If I were choosing tomorrow, my finalists would be the Pioneer 5070, the Samsung 5073, the Bravia V2500 and the JVC LCD 46 inch (don't remember the model number)--in my price range (Canadian dollars). Money no object, the Pioneer 1080p plasma would be arriving tomorrow to my house.

I picked up the Pioneer 6070 six months ago and I love it! My neighbor was looking for a 40" display for his master bedroom and I convinced him to get the 4270. He had it mounted about a week ago and he loves it.

I was holding out for SED too, thinking they were going to have something by year's end (at least that's what Toshiba told me at CES last year), but I couldn't wait and picked up a plasma display. The Pio is a great alternative but it's no SED. I am still hoping that Canon can work something out with Nano or we all stand to lose. I am not giving up yet, but I couldn't wait around either.

[aud19]

I don't think I'll be getting an HD display (of any type) before September, and quite likely next January, so I hope by then a reasonably decent 50 inch 1080p plasma will be available at around the 4000$ dollar mark.

Don't expect the 20,000:1 contrast, 1080p Pioneer to have a MSRP much under $10k at least initially. Street prices might get down to $7k-$8k range...

[aud19]

Well some possibly better news...?

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070126VL200.html

[Ovation]

Don't expect the 20,000:1 contrast, 1080p Pioneer to have a MSRP much under $10k at least initially. Street prices might get down to $7k-$8k range...

I'd be happy with the current Pioneer Elite 1080p that retails for 8000$ now (maybe by next Jan. it will be around 4000-5000$ retail and I can bargain it down a bit).

[aud19]

The contrast on the current Pioneer 1080p is REALLY sub-par IMO...I'd rather have the better looking and far cheaper 1368x768 unit myself.

[Ovation]

In all likelihood, even at half the current price, it would be too expensive, so I'll likely go with a 768p plasma or consider an LCD (the Sony and JVC LCDs look pretty good too). But the Pioneer 1080p plasma is still the best PQ I've seen, whatever its specs say. But, to be fair, I've not seen it side by side with other plasmas (it's always in a separate area whenever I see it).

[Brandon B]

Ior consider an LCD (the Sony and JVC LCDs look pretty good too).

I'd lump Sharps in there too.

BB

[David Meek]

The new Pioneer Plasmas are coming out this Summer. Not in 2008.

Yes, but is this the 1080p 20,000:1 series or just this years models?

[EAmin]

Yes, but is this the 1080p 20,000:1 series or just this years models?

The new ones. Link to engadgethd:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/07/pioneer-launches-new-plasma-display-tech-to-trump-lcd-and-sed/

[aud19]

Canon Eyeing Launch of Integrated SED TV Production in 2010

[Ovation]

2010?! I guess SED won't be my first HDTV display, not by a long shot. Oh well, if I can find a way to make SSE less objectionable on an LCoS (either brand), I'll be in HDTV-land by summer. If not, then a plasma (or an LCD flat panel if they get a bit better) sometime around Dec./Jan. 07/08

[aud19]

http://www.behardware.com/news/8587/...aunch-sed.html

[Race Car Driver]

Light at the end of the tunnel?

[Brandon B]

Nah. Oncoming train.

[David Meek]

I wish Canon all the best with SED, but the odds (and obstacles) are piling up.

[aud19]

Final nail in the coffin....?

http://news.com.com/2100-1047_3-6161...-0-5&subj=news

[WillyD]

Canon would also have to negotiate a new agreement if it wants to continue producing these kinds of TVs, assuming the summary judgment ruling stands after any appeals.

Canon and Nano-Proprietary have been in settlement negotiations over the case for the last several weeks. A new licensing agreement between the two companies, therefore, could develop.

I don't see why they wouldn't develop a new agreement.

[aud19]

And yet another twist! :lol:

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And...y/SED/R2N7X7V9

[RebelMan]

Figures Samsung would be the sucker fish to go after the technology if it could. First it was Pioneer's plasma technology now this. A company that I am quickly loosing respect for seems to be loosing the ability to innovate in the competitive display market place. These days Samsung is looking (pun intended) more like the Microsoft of displays or better yet the assimilating BORG!

[WillyD]

Are you serious?

[Brandon B]

Well, the industry news on this I have been reading this week is not good. It looks like with just Canon handling things and their lack of mass market television experience, the pundits all think SED might break into the professional fields, i.e. studio monitors and such, but that its chances to compete with PDP and LCD in the consumer arena are pretty much shot.

To quote Bruce Willis:

"SED? SED's dead baby."

Too bad, hope I'm wrong.

BB

[spyboy]

Figures Samsung would be the sucker fish to go after the technology if it could. First it was Pioneer's plasma technology now this. A company that I am quickly loosing respect for seems to be loosing the ability to innovate in the competitive display market place. These days Samsung is looking (pun intended) more like the Microsoft of displays or better yet the assimilating BORG!

I know people like Samsung DLPs in particular, however, I would not buy a Samsung display. Some people think that Samsung is the same as Sony and it is not.

[Brandon B]

Samsung is trying to cultivate the image that they are like Sony. If you think back about 6-8 years, Samsung was a name for cheap appliances and low end electronics. They have worked pretty hard to break into brand name CE and have really done a pretty good job, and have certainly put the pressure on a lot of the Japanese CE companies in the process, which is nice for us.

But momentum is hard to overcome, so they are always looking for the Next Big Thing which will give them an edge.

BB

[Chris D]

Thought I'd revisit this thread. Also, I saw this today, that Toshiba has dropped plans for OLED TV's. http://www.audioholics.com/news/indu...rely-knew-thee

Interesting, as Elan is very much embracing OLED for their small touch-screen control panels. Their "Ole" displays are selling very well.

[Race Car Driver]

Oh well

[Hdale85]

So I guess SED is not going to come out ever? Seems they keep trying and promising new technologies and then they drop them before they hit market.

[aud19]

So I guess SED is not going to come out ever? Seems they keep trying and promising new technologies and then they drop them before they hit market.

Too many legal issues, behind the plasma/lcd price drop 8-ball etc. I don't think it was from a lack of trying.

I believe Canon is still planning on making them for the pro market but they'll doubtfully ever make it to consumer shelves (or prices )