I want my SED!!

[aud19]

A little more good news :

http://avzombie.com/blog/2006/05/23/toshiba-pledges-massive-investment-in-sed/

http://www.tvtechnology.com/hd_notebook/one.php?id=781

[JonMarsh]

A little more good news :

http://avzombie.com/blog/2006/05/23/toshiba-pledges-massive-investment-in-sed/

http://www.tvtechnology.com/hd_notebook/one.php?id=781

Basicallly good news in both cases- this is a complex and new technology, with very different manufacturing processes, and they're trying to develop the technology and manufacturing infrastructure nearly simultaneously. Not an easy job.

These are the displays we need to demonstrate the HD disk formats! :T

[aud19]

Yeah they're trying to do that while also hitting the rapidly moving price points of LCD and Plasma as well!

I agree a 55" 1080p SED would be SWEET demo gear for HD-DVD :yesnod:

[Ovation]

Well, until they pronounce this tech as dead, it is what I will wait for. I have an SDTV Sony WEGA 32" with the 16x9 "cheat" (simulates a 29" widescreen and takes an anamorphic signal from my DVD player). Though the feature is cumbersome to access, it is far better than letterboxing on the full 4:3 screen. It's not hi-def (or even Enhanced Def) but it suffers from none of the problems I've noticed while out shopping with my friend (he's looking to buy a big screen HDTV). I have great blacks, no motion-blur (like I saw on a number of displays--esp. LCD), no rainbow effect, no screen door effect, etc. I can only use that "cheat" with anamorphic DVDs, so regular TV is still regular TV (and I can't use the "cheat" with widescreen broadcasts like The West Wing, for example). But HD content in Canada is not yet sufficient to make me grab a new TV, so I can wait awhile--especially after coming across all the info on SED. 2008? Not a problem. (Plus, I'll only have the money to upgrade by then, anyway--just had a second kid and my wife (the main breadwinner) has been on leave for a year, so no loose piles of cash for an HD display anyway).

[WillyD]

I agree with you completely, Ovation.

I mean..if it is 2010 and SED still isn't on the market, or is realllly expensive, maybe not. But for now...I can get by with 27" CRT.

Edit: Any more news, Aud19?

[aud19]

Nope everything's "as is" as far as I've heard. 4thQ of 2007 in limited release and going from there. They plan on having them blazing out of factories for the 2008 Olympics. So basically by 2008/2009 they should be available here around or slightly above a HIGH quality plasma price. (In other words, still not cheap.)

[WillyD]

That would be OK in my book though. I just hope that everything stays on track...wouldn't want SED to keep slipping further "behind schedule". The technology just seems so promising.

[aud19]

That would be OK in my book though. I just hope that everything stays on track...wouldn't want SED to keep slipping further "behind schedule". The technology just seems so promising.

I hear ya!! :yesnod: Everything I've read say's it the holy grail of video display technology. I can't wait to actually see one with my own eyes....Anybody volunteer funds for a flight/stay at CES....? :B

[Brandon B]

Wouldn't quite give it holy grail status. It still has two limitations of CRT I would like to see consigned to history - burn in and phosphor limited color gamut. But it is certainly spiffy compared to what's available in today's world.

BB

[WillyD]

I thought that burn in was for the most part, solved. I certainly haven't experienced it on any of the CRTs in my house.

What is "phosphor limited color gamut"?

[aud19]

Yeah on a properly setup display, burn-in is really a non-issue. As for the colour gamut, I believe SED is supposed have one of the richer palettes out there....?

[Ovation]

But will we ever see it? I certainly hope so, and I have time to wait, but I'll be very disappointed if it doesn't come to market.

[aud19]

IMO Toshiba/Canon has too much invested to not release it, nevermind the pride factor that seems ESPECIALLY important in Japan.

Now whether they can release it and have it be profitable enough and yet affordable enough to keep mass production expanding and make a sizeable dent in the market to sustain it's own existence..... that's wait and see I'm afraid....

[Brandon B]

The phosphors that glow under the electron excitation and give the red green and blue that mix into the color image, are limited in the points in color space they can achieve. They have improved over the decades, and are probably equal to a plasma or even a lot of UHP lamp RP engines, but LEDs and (eventually) lasers are coming, and both of those are better. So my guess is that in about 5 years, you will see LED lit LCD panels that have better color than SED, and you may see their contrast improve enough to make the SED advantage in that area a smaller factor. Especially if everyone starts modulating the LEDs.

BB

[Chris D]

I keep seeing things about SED posted around the internet. Sounds like a great technology, but with lots of bureaucratic business stumbles. I just hope we do get better technologies.

[aud19]

The phosphors that glow under the electron excitation and give the red green and blue that mix into the color image, are limited in the points in color space they can achieve. They have improved over the decades, and are probably equal to a plasma or even a lot of UHP lamp RP engines, but LEDs and (eventually) lasers are coming, and both of those are better. So my guess is that in about 5 years, you will see LED lit LCD panels that have better color than SED, and you may see their contrast improve enough to make the SED advantage in that area a smaller factor. Especially if everyone starts modulating the LEDs.

BB

Yeah LED's and lasers should have a wider colour gamut but plasma's use phosphors (albiet different ones) as well. Regardless SED is supposed to have pretty amazing colour reproduction and LCD will still have problems with pixel lag for the forseeable future (though that has improved a fair bit and will continue I'm sure).

Regardless of any of that however is that it will be nice to have more than one AND quality display choices. Right now there's not too many and way too many compromises IMO

[WillyD]

Any updates?

[aud19]

Sorry I've been smoking busy lately and haven't had much time to keep up on any developments... I'll see if I have time later to dig anything up

[WillyD]

No problem dude. I was just curious if you had heard anything.

[Arneson]

I first say that I'm not bubble bursting.
I've read the thread with great interest, mostly about the production methods and the technology description.
I wonder from what you posted and linked, how rugged and how durable these sets would be?
The glass substrate seems to be extremely critical, crystal chemical doping and such.
How will this stand up to overseas shipping, decrating, mounting and adjusting?
I only ask this after inadvertently creating a blemish on an LCD screen by bumping it.
I am not a first phase adopter, I wait for a some maturity and early failures before assesing a totally new tech.
I am also excited and don't mean to start anything, I'm just sayin.

[aud19]

Jim, no idea....I don't think anyone will until they start shipping in small numbers (hopefully mid-late 2007) and larger numbers in 2008.

The only new'ish news I was able to dig up was this:

http://gear.ign.com/articles/732/732563p1.html

[Arneson]

Building a plant to fabricate those panels looks daunting.
But it is coming along, unless something organic or otherwise obscure devices pop up.
I'm waiting on the flexable display technology to become multi colored. I envision a dashboard that is a display.That would be a cool heads up.

[aud19]

Some actual news!!! :banana:

http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-6122...2022&subj=news

http://news.com.com/Toshiba+unveils+...l?tag=nefd.top

CEATEC JAPAN 2006 10/3/2006

Some actual 55" SED demo units rather than the 34" units they were showing last year!

[WillyD]

Niiiiice....Daddy like.

[Chris D]

Jason - maybe it's just me, but those screen pictures actually look a little on the washed-out side. From what I've seen and heard of SED, I seems like it could do better colors than that!

[aud19]

Jason - maybe it's just me, but those screen pictures actually look a little on the washed-out side. From what I've seen and heard of SED, I seems like it could do better colors than that!

Well they're just pictures (who knows what camera/lighting/software/monitor etc effect there is). I mostly posted them to illustrate the progress to 55" units from the 34" units they were showing before :T

Here's a couple more

http://news.com.com/2300-1041_3-6122...tag=ne.gall.pg

[Race Car Driver]

mmm...SED... drool..

[aud19]

Just looking at those pics again Chris and it looks like the ones a couple posts up used a flash while taking the pic too so that would have a lot to do with the image looking "washed out" I'd guess....

[Brandon B]

I went to CEATEC in 2004. The convention center where it is held is very brightly lit. The SED demo I saw back was anything but washed out. It is very certainly an artifact of how/where the pictures were taken.

BB

[David Meek]

They mention that the cost of SED sets will be competitive with LCDs (or a bit higher), so that should put them in the same price range as plasmas, correct? That would be a real coup if Toshiba and Canon could pull it off.

[WillyD]

Even if they were 10-15% higher, I'd be willing to pay for one. If you're already spending in the thousands, what is a bit more to get much better quality?

[Chris D]

Aha!

[Arneson]

It Is Beautiful.

I will continue waiting for a Holodeck full suround virtual world.

[aud19]

I went to CEATEC in 2004. The convention center where it is held is very brightly lit. The SED demo I saw back was anything but washed out. It is very certainly an artifact of how/where the pictures were taken.

BB

Lucky SOB : I can't wait to see these things....soooooo jealous :B

[aud19]

Here's some additional info I managed to dig up from a very nice gentleman

SED Revs Up CEATEC

By Steve Sechrist

October 4, 2006

If your looking for the biggest buzz at Japan's CEATEC this year, go no further than the Canon/Toshiba SED booth in Hall 1 at this massive precursor to the January Consumer Electronics Show. Here, the Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display (SED), which was conspicuously absent from SID and other display technology venues this year, is being shown in a 55-inch model.

Lines begin forming a good 40 minutes to 1 hr. before the closed-door presentation, and that's the line to get tickets. There is yet another line to see the demonstration.

To my knowledge, no one who has seen the SED technology up front and close denies the display prowess. And the specs support this. The 55-inch model shown publicly for the first time here yesterday includes a 1920 x 1080 display resolution boasting 50,000:1 contrast at 450 cd/m2 brightness at a less than 1ms response time. Yutaka Sakuraba, SEDs deputy senior general manager for product development and design claims true CRT like performance from the flat panel display; something he said no other display technology can even approach.

Possibly true, but the company has yet to demonstrate they can produce these results in mass quantities and perhaps more importantly, at a price point competitive with rival LCD and PDP flat screens. Adding fuel to doubting display analyst crowd is the company's long delay in bringing the product to market-or even full production.

For his part, Sakuraba said flat panel market conditions, including significant price erosion in the space, forced a re-visit of product development plans including cost-down and ramp models more than once. " It's been a planning nightmare for the team but we believe we are on track for full production in the 2008 time frame." he said. "We're looking at the broader view and mass migration to DTV by 2011 when digital TV signals become the standard and all analog goes away." Sakuraba continued.

The company will spend the first half of 2007 perfecting its prototype process in Hitatsuka, Japan where the 55-inch units shown at CEATEC were produced. The company plans to be in serial-production by July-07 with a 55-inch line. Then, it will move to full production at a former Toshiba CRT factory located in Himaji, (Hyogo prefecture) Japan by the beginning of 2008.

Sakuraba emphasized all equipment used to build the new displays in the company's prototype factory was developed in-house leveraging the technology strengths of both partners. For example, Canon is supplying critical ink-jet technology in applying the palladium-oxide and carbon compound emitter layer. So the company is charged not only with developing the process, but building the tools to manufacture the technology as well.

Make no mistake, what these two companies are attempting is no less than a display technology paradigm shift in the face of LCD and PDP flat panel dominance - the result of billions of R&D and capacity investment dollars and ballooning output fueling accelerated price declines which continually spur demand for these traditional flat panels. But the company is bullish on SED display superiority, pouring development funds and resources into the project. And if the growing crowds here at CEATEC portend the future, the SED image is one certainly worth waiting for. The question is: will this wait ever be rewarded? --SS

[aud19]

Another picture....this one is very drool inducing :drool:

http://mediablog.mail2web.com/gadgetmaniac/media/get_file.media?filename=96042.jpg&folder=2308&account_id=2235&width=100000

[Brandon B]

Especially considering that shot is not in a darkened room nor a long exposure, going by the woodgrain molding to the left of the display.

Reminds me of one of the things discussed in demos I have seen of Sunnybrook's (now Brightside Inc.) HDR displays (high dynamic range, LCD panels backlit with variable brightness LEDs with claimed and likely real CR of 100,000:1).

They mentioned that one of the interesting things about displays of this level of contrast was you could take them out in daylight, place them in a normally lit setting, i.e. in the shade but not in a darkened environment, photograph the operating display and its surroundings, and the image on the display in the photograph still appeared natural, as opposed to washed out like most displays would in a photograph.

If the unit in your pic is at 50,000:1, looks like SED is capable of similar performance.

BB

[Chris D]

Whoa, now THAT'S more like the SED performance I expected!!! :T

[David Meek]

Very nice. ;x(

Dammit, I don't want to wait another year for a new flat panel! But with performance shots like that, and the manufacturers telling us that this is what we should expect, I may have to put off my purchase.

[aud19]

Very nice. ;x(

Dammit, I don't want to wait another year for a new flat panel! But with performance shots like that, and the manufacturers telling us that this is what we should expect, I may have to put off my purchase.

If you need a display now get a good quality but "affordable" 720p plasma (or similar) for the time being. They won't even hit N.A. for another 1.5'ish years and will initially be pretty premium priced. (ie: Think 55"+ 1080p plasma prices being +/- $10k) You likely won't be able to get one for under say $6k until at least 09/10....that's an awful long time to wait.

[David Meek]

Jason, after thinking about it that's probably what I'm going to do. If it was 6 months, then I could (maybe) hold out. But with it being forecast that far down the road I'm going to have to do something - most likely the Samsung HP-S5073 plasma.

[aud19]

See if you can find any of last year's 720p Pioneer's on closeout :yesnod:

[Brandon B]

Yeah, SED seems to have taken LCOS' spot of "the technology of tomorrow" that never quite arrives in today (for non-FP anyway).

BB

[aud19]

Yeah, SED seems to have taken LCOS' spot of "the technology of tomorrow" that never quite arrives in today (for non-FP anyway).

BB

Sony's SXRD is LCOS and is doing pretty well

[Brandon B]

Yup. Hence my comment. LCOS has arrived in RP, with Sony and JVC selling a large number of units, and Brillian and a couple of others rounding out the field.

And it has arrived in FP too, mostly Sony moving big numbers (in the consumer space), but JVC reacting pretty positively with its upcoming model.

So now I give the "real soon now but not yet" crown to SED. But since it is non-applicable (I think) to FP, I qualified that.

BB