RC-1082 phono stage

[miner]

I have sent this eaamil to Rotel but have not rcvd a reply as of yet. Maybe someon can shed some light on this question.


I have asked previous but need some more help. My preamp is a Rotel RC-1082 and amp is a RB-1092. I am using a Rega P7 TT with Dynavector DV20X H high output cartridge (MC). Currently I am using the MM setting on the pre but have found I really need to turn up the volume to get acceptable listening levels. I have to use the 11 o’clock position on the pre volume knob to get to a ‘listening level’. I tried changing to the MC settings and the gain improved but I was concerned with the damage this may cause (DV 20Xh is 2.5 mV output and >1000 ohms impedance). The MC setting impedance is 100 ohms. I don’t understand why I need to turn the volume up so much to get to a decent listening level. My speakers are Dynaudio 52SE monitors.

[eelco74]

It is not very uncommon. I have a Ortofon X10-MC high output cartridge with a Pro-ject 1.2 turntable on a Pro-ject phonobox. The phonobox is set tot MM position.

Normally on my RSP-1098 the volume is set to 69 for DVD

For my turtable I have to cranck it up to 80 to get a descent output. It is just
that the pre-amp of the phonobox output is rated at 2.5mv but in reality more like 1.5mv.

Also the output of most CD players exceed the spec 2.5mv. This why it is louder that your turntable.

[wkhanna]

The output signal from your phono pre is much lower than the other source components in your system. It’s fine to try different impedance load settings on your phono pre, it should not hurt the cart. Remember that the impedance that produces the loudest output may not be the one that produces the best ‘sound’.

Don’t worry about the volume setting on the pre-amp. So long as you’re not getting any increase in noise or hum, just turn it up and enjoy.

As Always, JMHO,YMMV

Edit: I just read through you original post again and noticed you said your are using the MM setting for a MC cart. I realize that for a MC cart the DV 20X has a fairly low output at 2.5 mV. Using the MM setting on your pre will boost the output, but possibly at the price of degrading sound quality. I might suggest comparing the two,(using the MM setting and not having to turn up the pre-amp volume as much & the MC setting with the volume set higher for the equivalent SPL). Again, I would not worry about were the pre-amp volume is set so long as noise is not an issue, and go with the option that sounds best.

One other subject of note are your I/C cables. They should always be sheilded, and as short as possible. Also, their impedance can affect the output.

[miner]

Actually, I am hearing the opposite. The MM setting yields the least amount of output compated to the MC setting. The MC setting with this cartirdges sounds a bit muddier than with the MM setting.

What is the general consensus about the Rotel phono stages? I am having a tough time accpeting the fact that spending $700-$1K on an outboard phono stage will improve the sonics. I am looking a Musical Surroundings and Graham Slee products.

[hifiguymi]

What your experiencing sounds correct. The MC input mode has much more gain (about 10 times more sensitivity) than the MM input mode so it will sound louder at the same setting on the volume control. It sounds like your cartridge is overdriving the input when it's set to MC and that is why the sound is muddy. The MM setting is where you need to keep it with an high output MC cartridge. Is there something wrong with having the volume dial at 11 o'clock other than visually it's higher than your CD player is? It's not uncommon for that to happen with turn tables.

As far as the performance of the phono section, I think it's pretty good. Is there better out there? Sure, but you would have to listen to them to know if it would be worth the investment. If you like what you hear on the MM setting and just don't like seeing the volume knob at a higher position, then I don't know what else to tell you.

Eric

[miner]

No, no visual heartache at all - my amp outputs 500 w/ch @ 8 ohms and my Dynaudios are 4 ohm.. Just wanted to be sure this was in line with what should happen. Yes, I am struggling with spending $700 for a separate phono stage. I am really enjoying my vinyl experience and was curious if it could get better. The Rotel MM/Mc settings are pretty standard - might get a bit more sonic improvement by be ing allowed to set load and output to match the cartridge.

[hifiguymi]

Do you have the ability to listen to a different phono stage before you purchase it? If so, you have nothing to lose. As I said, I think the phono stage in the RC-1082 is pretty good so you may have to spend upwards of $700.00 to better it. I have a customer with a Rega P3 with an Elys cartridge connected to an RC-1082, RB-1070, 804S combo and it's quite good. You can always do better in this hobby, it all comes down to money.

Eric

[miner]

My dealer has offered to let me take their Graham Slee Era Gold Mk V floor demo home to try. If I like it $750 will purchase it.

[CSMAB]

Miner - how do you like the RB-1092 and RC-1082 combo? I have the RB-1092 running through my RSP-1098. For 2 channel it is ok but my dealer indicated if I go with a separate 2 channel preamp I would end up with better sound. The RC-1082 is on the short list. Just wondering if you like the combo.

Thanks
Craig

[miner]

You know, many people refer to Rotel as mid-fi but what i am listening to is hi-fi to me. The RC-1082 is in my secondary sytem. I use a RC-1090 in my primary system which also uses a RB-1092 and I am enjoying both. Even though I don't use them, I like the tone controls on the RC-1082 just in case I need to have them. Also, how many pres nowadays come with a MC/MM phono stage? Prior to the RC-1082 I was using a RC-1070 and the 1082 is a major sonic improvement. With the 15 series coming out you should be able to ge 20% off of a 10 series product. The 1082 and 1092 look nice together - these are silver units with blue lights. I have no regrets with the purchase. I use these only on weekends when I play LPs so I am sure I am still breaking in the preamp.

[wkhanna]

IMHO that’s a fair price on the Graham Slee Era Gold Mk V.
If you’re still breaking in the pre, things may improve yet.
Try out Graham, though, you have nothing to loose.

If you are this excited about vinyl, I might recommend a good Record Cleaning Machine before the phono, however. You already have a V nice system. I just picked up a VPI 16.5 RCM at Audiogon recently, and it was the best single thing I did since I got into vinyl. I wish someone had told me to do it sooner.
Even what I thought were my mint condition LP's have benefitted. Not even a $1K phono pre could make this much difference.

Regardless, it’s good hear you are enjoying the experience only analog software can produce. :T

[hifiguymi]

I'll second the VPI HW16.5 recommendation. They are worth every penny. The only draw back is they are LOUD. It sounds like a vacuum cleaner (which it sort of is) when it's going. If you can't find one used then get in touch with Corey at Audio Advisor (here is his e-mail ckapteyn@audioadvisor.com ) and he'll take care of you. I worked with him for a while and he's a great guy.

Eric

[miner]

I have a Nitty Gritty 2.5Fi and am happy with its performance. A RCM is a definite must-have for LP playback.

[wkhanna]

Nitty Gritty - VPI .......
Makes not difference........

It's having one that does!


Then maybe go for the in-home demo of the Graham, and then please report back and tell us what you think.

[miner]

Alright, dealer allowed me to take home the Graham Slee MkV for a demo session. WOW, what a difference. Not only with 'volume setting' (more in line with the line stage gain) but the entire sonics improved. More of soundstage, bass, 'blackness' between notes, and depth. I was very sketical before using but am now a believer in outboard stage - at least the GS, I am. I believe Stereophile (Mikey Fremer) gave this a Class B rating. Although I have no flexibility with this phono stage and am very pleased with what I heard. My dealer also sent me home with a pair of Kimber Kable 12TC cables to try. I have yet to add these to my sytem. I am currently using some generic 4/14ga in-wall rated speaker wire. I hope to hear another improvemewnt.