Poor service from Portland, OR. dealer

[TimGRA]

I just took in my 1068 to Fred's Sound of Music in Portland, OR. and what a joke. :M

The LFE channel went out last night. I have tried everything. I MEAN EVERYTHING. I have been in contact with Mike Sheehan (who is the best) at Rotel and he told me to take it to the dealer.

Fred's had no loner to give me and no time frame for it would be fixed. They actually had the gall to tell me it could be one of the boards inside, and if the board was discontuned it would take weeks to fix. Discontinued? It is their newest piece! I basically left with a pick ticket and was told they would call me.

Way to much money being spent for service and effort like that. I know this thread maybe taken off by the moderator, but I am tired of being treated like this.

I know, I know there will be many of you who love this place. And I hope there are, BUT this is my experience and not the first time with them. Never agian!

[aphexist]

A loaner unit? This is a midrange piece of electronics, not a luxury car.

Furthermore, how can they give you a time frame if they don't know what is wrong with it?

I think you might be expecting a bit much.

[inetguy]

I can sypathize, but my local dealer would do the same. Frankly, my dealer is so slow that I'd probably buy a new unit and sell the repaired one when it came back. I hate my local dealer, but I have no other choice.

[TimGRA]

aphexist,

Yes a loaner! I have spent $25,000 on equipment in the last 6 months and it is because of Fred's foolish attitude and service that I have gone to other dealers. It just so happens that they were the only one who had that as you called it, " mid-range piece of equipment." I know your the guy who has spent 6 figures on all of your equipment, but keep in mind that less than 10% of America has legitimate home theaters and are willing to spend even "mid-range" dollars.

And as for the time frame, just give me an ETA on when it will be on the bench. Something!

Other dealers I know have offered me loaner equipment without even asking. That's Fred's for you though they just don't get it.

[george_k]

Yes a loaner! I have spent $25,000 on equipment in the last 6 months and it is because of Fred's foolish attitude and service that I have gone to other dealers.

So why did you buy from him this time knowing this in the first place?

This is what I do:

1. I look for a good dealers who provides good service.
2. Look at what brand names they carry.
3. Do my research at home.
4. Buy

I don't like dealing with the rotel dealer near my place, so I don't buy their products unfortunately for both myself and rotel...to "some extend" I value the service more than the product itself.

[Kevin D]

No reason to have an arguement or discuss 'reasonable service levels'. In fact you can rule all of that out. Two facts:

1) As a smaller Rotel dealer, we don't give loaners because if we actually have stock, it's sold. Since we have to send everything off for repair we also can't give a time of return. That said, all off our customers are happy that we take care of them and reinstall the products as soon as they return.

2) When someone has a one time problem with a dealer, they don't come on and blast the dealer on an open forum.

So with that, Tim got told the same thing our customers get told; yet he feels shafted. Tim also came on and blasted the dealer for poor service, which means this is probably a common occurance and he is fed up.

We don't know the other side of the story, but this is just feedback for a particular dealer. Take it or leave it, just don't make it personal.

Kevin D.

[DrJRapp]

Kevin, thanks for the dealers perspective.

The problem with a dealer giving a turnaround time is that there are so many factors not in his/her control that could go wrong, so many dealers (or other business owners such as myself) don't want to commit to a turnaround time for fear of creating an expectation that is later not met.

I've had personal experience with that on the Rotel end. My 1080 did the left channel thing last year just prior to Xmas. I took it to my dealer who sent it out immediatly by UPS. As it turns out UPS didn't get it to Rotel until January 10th. Rotel turned it around in 4 days and got it back to my dealer...seven weeks after I brought it in.

Needless to say I was furious since I only owned the unit 5 weeks before it blew. Investigation yeilded the facts, it wasn't the dealer, it wasn't Rotel it was the transportation. This didn't keep me from blaming the dealer however, because he had told me to expect it back in about 2 weeks.

[Marlboroman]

If your dealer sends the unit back to Rotel in Mass. then you were speaking with the correct guy, Mike Sheehan, to ask about turn around time and such. It just so happens that I was speaking with him yesterday and asked what their turn around time currently was and he said that they were at 1 week from the time it arrives. This of course can fluctuate due to repair technicians being out sick or whatever else can go on. This does not include shipping time or anything like that. He said that as long as the problem can be verified the repair time of the unit is just a few hours. If they have problems duplicating the problem then of course the repair time will be longer. They do not like to guess at where a problem is, they want to see the problem and then find the culprit. I would not worry too much about the turn around. Rotel has some of the fastest turn around times in the industry, IMHO.

[Marcel B]

My experience is that I always get a loaner.Especially when it concerns e.g. amplifier (or pre) your whole system is useless without it.

But no, I don't demand the same model or the same brand and I have no problems with loaning an used piece of equipment. It's just being able to play music and watch a movie.

I never had a problem with Rotel (so far) but my Pioneer AX-10, their top of the line model for europe, broke down three times last year and was gone for about 8 months.
The third time I exchanged is for a 1098 (an added two used RB981's together with the Denon amplifier I already owned)

Marcel B

[aphexist]

Tim,

I actually have the same unit as you, the RSP-1068; I am not a high roller. I think my standards for customer service are just lower than yours. I think I also have a higher level of patience than most, which probably helps out more in these types of situations.

[A surround sound processor is something most people can live without. Everyone can live without one, actually. Considering that I, as well as most of the people that I know in my hometown, including my dealer, have flooded houses and businesses, this rings more clearly than ever.]

Getting a loaner from your dealer is certainly a luxury feature. It is not specified in any contract between you and Fred, nor is the dealer obligated to provide one to you.

All I'm saying is that this level of service is on par rather than "poor." Any time a dealer goes out of their way to help you, they earn your future business and loyalty. Otherwise, it is purely a business transaction, and undeserving of this libel.

[H.Donald]

Tim....I feel your pain.I know how it is to miss a key component.It kind of puts you in a piss poor mood.
I don't know if your dealer is giving you good service or bad...or just par.
The only time I have needed service for a problem was on a Onkyo receiver...and that was a headache that lasted 4-6 weeks,with no loaner.Good luck...

[gd]

Remember that not all Rotel dealers are created equal... they are not Rotel representatives, but rather local merchants who have contracted to work with Rotel... and they have their own ways of doing business... some offer discounts, some don't... some go out of their way with great service, others not so much.

There are often complaints lodged online that make them appear to be Rotel problems, when that might not always be the case.

The best course of action is to communicate thoroughly with the dealer first, then come here to inquire if the Rotel insiders on the forum can make a pitch on your behalf.

Meanwhile, in this case, a nebulous turnaround time dosn't seem grossly out of line, as long as there's followup... and I would never hesitate to ask for and expect a loaner -- but be willing in this case to take a cheaper floor/demo receiver.

All makes break somewhere along the road, part of the experience... be patient.

[TimGRA]

Thank you all for the replies.

I am in sales, and have been for 16 years. Our industry is being ravaged by the 2 hurricanes. I know that my customers, who have spent almost $20,000,000 with me this year, just want a few answers to their problems. All I was looking for from Fred's was some professionalism and courtesy. I was not expecting a loaner of the same quality. SHOOT, I would have taken a cheap old receiver with pre-outs. I didn’t care. I know they have to diagnose the problem, but to look at me and tell me they do not think it is the problem I brought it in for and to give me NO time frame for when it will hit their bench was not acceptable. They are not only an authorized dealer but also a Rotel authorized repair shop.

Kevin,
I appreciate your perspective. I am all for the little guy surviving against the Big Box stores. I want Fred's to succeed on that premise alone, but they could have stated their intentions a little better. I am not here to make this personal with anyone. This forum has been a great help to me.

aphexist,
Your point is well taken. I feel for you and that entire region. Sure makes a 1068 look pretty meaningless and I am sorry if you felt attacked by me.

My Parasound 2205at amp went out early this summer. I boxed it up, sent it in and 3 days later had it on my door step. They felt so bad that they actually reimbursed me the fright. I guess when the heartbeat of an entertainment system goes out, I just expect a little more willingness by a dealer or manufacture to step up in a timely fashion and take care of the situation.

[shadow]

I would talk to management at Freds. You are obviously not a tire kicker, but a repeat customer. Guys like you are the difference in profit and loss for a lot of smaller shops. If I were you I would calmly point these facts out to the manager and ask for a loaner while your unit was out. If none were offered and no good reason given for the refusal (like no demos, used etc), I would notify them that they would never get any more of my business and I would tell everyone I know about their lack of concern for their customer base. I agree you may not get another 1068 while yours is in service, but a less expensive receiver or a used piece should be made available for a good customer. It always has been for me.

[Woo Wooooo]

Go To

Go to Chelsea's in Beaverton ask for Kyle, he will take care of you....
tell him Jaime from Dallas, Texas sent ya!!! :T I used to live in Portland

[TimGRA]

UPDATE

I just returned from Fred's with my 1068 and Fred's was Fred's. I must admit that my emotions early on did get the best of me and I said some things I should not have said. That is just not me. I apologize.

Peter, the tech, was told to try a hard reset from ROTEL. He did and the SW/LFE channel came back. YAHOO!

WE (myself and Fred's) are still not convinced that it is not a bad D/A. Let me expound and see if anyone can duplicate what is happening.

While playing the EAGLES Hell Freezes Over DVD my CENTER channel is set to Large and the low end coming from the sub is allot. I then change the CENTER to small and the low end drops substantially. That seems to be just the opposite of what should be happening? My sub is set to yes NOT max. If anyone can duplicate this that would tell me that it is actually the recording and how much they loaded on the CENTER signal and not the 1068. I did try the new SEAL in Paris DVD and when I set the CENTER channel to none the 2 fronts should come alive but they don’t. This all leads me back to the actual recording and how the mix all of the channels.

I just want to get this all right. It's allot of work to pull this equipment out and get to my dealer.

Equipment:
1068
Parasound 2205at
Studio 60's
PW2200
IXOS-KNU Cables

[Kevin D]

DTS Eagle's or Dolby Digital? I'll check for you.

Do you have center rears? If not, your dynamics will go to hell when you turn the center off. The way the Rotel works is it decodes the stream to every speaker/LARGE. Then it goes in and applies crossover's if needed and mixes back in whatever channels you don't have. If it needs to mix in and apply too many crossover's, the processor gets bogged down creating a loss of dynamics (the best I can describe it)..

Kind of sucks, but it is designed for a surround system. It can convert any signal all the way down to 2 channel, but don't expect the same quality after a certain point.

This shouldn't effect what's happening on the Eagle's disc though..

Kevin D.

[TimGRA]

Eagles DTS and then I tried Seal Live in Paris in DD and that had a different reaction.

On the Seal DVD I turned off the CENTER thinking the 2 Main's would come alive being the only speakers on and they did the opposite. They were SO quiet. They must have dropped a good 15db's in volume. Weird.

[Kevin D]

On the Seal DVD I turned off the CENTER thinking the 2 Main's would come alive being the only speakers on and they did the opposite. They were SO quiet. They must have dropped a good 15db's in volume. Weird.

Tim, exactly what kind of setup do you have? 3.1, 5.1, 7.1??

Judging from the 'turning center off = only 2 front speakers' statement, it appears that you only have a 3.1 setup. If this is the case you are asking too much of the proccessor and would explain everything. Turning CENTER to small would add in another crossover step, causing the lack of bass (and some dynamics). Turning the center completely off would add in having to mix it back into the L/R causing a huge colapse in dynamics.

Basically the 1068 is good for any 5.1 system with any crossover settings. Anything below that will cause bad things to happen.

Kevin D.

[TimGRA]

Rotel 1068
Parasound 2205at (220 x 5)
Pioneer Elite transport
Paradigm Studio 60's (main)
Paradigm Studio CC 470 (center)
Paradigm Studio ADP 470 (rear)
Paradigm PW2200 (sub)

Kevin,

I have been talking to Mike Sheehan and I am going to the dealer to test other equipment. So far my conclussion is that is not the 1068, but the differece in how the DVD's are mixed.

tim