New B&K receivers and Preamp.

[Dmantis]

Just waiting around for them to release some new Info and release dates.

[John Holmes]

"So say we all!"

[Dmantis]

"So say we all!"

So say we all Brother.

[Dmantis]

It's looking like may 08 before we get to see one. And thats if everything goes as planned. After about 6 months of being released, they will then consider upgrades if any on the ref50 s2 current preamps.

That has always been a good selling point on B&K preamps and receiver is there ability to be upgraded, with the new preamp, it's possible the older models might get cut off. Only time will tell.

I just hate waiting. Damn it seems like forever.

[John Holmes]

I have heard conflicting reports about upgrades for current equipment. At this point, I'm just going to try to wait and see. Though I must admit, I have my doubts that any upgrades are coming.

It would be great to have HDMI and the new codecs right now. However, I would hope that the wait will release a product with better quality/reliability. Plus, Integra/Onkyo has shown that not only can this be done, but, it can been done at a reasonable price and good sound! So, whatever B&K brings to the market in the new 7 series, it better be good!!!

My Ref 50 (series 1), is a great piece. I actually have no issues what so ever sound wise with it. And it also has more than enough I/O's for legacy connections. I'm not even sure it is worth getting something new, just for a bit more flexability. My HD-DVD sounds great thru the 5.1 ins of the Ref 50. When I get a Blu-Ray player, I may just go with a switching system. What B&K chooses to do (or not) with upgrades, will make my choice a lot easier.

Lets hope they do the right thing for current owners. Since the backbone of their company is "Just buy it once".

[John Holmes]

I see B&K has reworded their "upgrade" policy:

"B&K. Buy It Just Once

AVR507 S2Choosing the right audio/video component can be confusing; today's newest digital processing systems include Dolby Digital®, Dolby Pro Logicllx®, DTS-ES® & Neo:6® to name a few. Combine this with the choices in video, including High Definition T.V., Plasma T.V.'s, etc.; the choices and options can be daunting. At B & K our digital preamp processors and digital receivers give you a unique option in the market, we offer preamps and receivers that are upgradable for audio processing; upgradability is a solution, not a guarantee; we've described upgradability in the paragraph below for you reference.

In a world of use it once and throw it away, we are trying to make a difference and offer you an option that makes a difference. Upgradability: B & K is one of the first manufacturers in the audio/video industry to consistently offer software and hardware upgrades to its processing of audio signals. Through upgrades, B & K delivers exceptional value to its customers. But what is "Upgradability"? We define it as a philosophy of designing and manufacturing products so that as audio technology evolves, B & K can provide enhancements and improvements to its products. Upgradability is not a guarantee, it is a methodology of designing, engineering and manufacturing products that allows us to offer future upgrades if the enhancements to the processing of audio signals and changes in technology have widespread support in the industry and are economically viable. We design our products to be upgradable for a number of reasons. Two of the primary reasons are that the industry and technology are evolving very quickly and B & K wants to provide its customers with state-of-the-art products; secondly, we believe that "Upgradability" allows us to provide added value to our customers by increasing the lifecycle of B & K's products and simultaneously decreasing the use of our limited natural resources by both B & K and our customers."



Well, with upgradability being " a solution and not a guarantee" I don't see much hope for the current units being upgraded.

[Dmantis]

From what I learned, B&K is totally redesigning the 7 series. There may be a cut off for upgrades. You might be able to get like a HDMI switcher in the ref 50 but I don't see a full HDMI 1.3 processing added.

Time will tell exactly whats going to happen. I have been waiting. I used to use B&K before I switched to Rotel. I'm looking to go back to B&K depending on this new preamp.

[John Holmes]

From what I learned, B&K is totally redesigning the 7 series. There may be a cut off for upgrades. You might be able to get like a HDMI switcher in the ref 50 but I don't see a full HDMI 1.3 processing added.

Time will tell exactly whats going to happen. I have been waiting. I used to use B&K before I switched to Rotel. I'm looking to go back to B&K depending on this new preamp.

I think you are right on this. I doubt 1.3 will happen for the ref 50, or any audio via HDMI. And to be honest, I wouldn't send it in just for an HDMI switcher.

Push come to shove, if B&K does nothing for audio upgrades, I'll just get a component switcher and be happy with pcm. Because honestly, I'm extremely happy with the decoding in the Toshiba. So I doubt that it would be any different in whichever Blu-ray I choose to get.

[Dmantis]

Another backup for the new B&K products. From what I learned it's now going to be June or Mid summer release. I'm alittle bumbed about this. I really want to get my hands on both and dig in. I need a new preamp. Hell I would go back to a receiver , a B&K receiver that is. They are fantastic. Space saving 2. Not to mention all the extra wire mess that comes with having poweramps like Ic's and power cords.

I feel with B&K receiver there is barely if any performance loss. I powered my theater as well and many many others with stellar results. I also love the fact that it can power just about any kind of speakers and do a fantastic job at it.

Damn I hate waiting.

[John Holmes]

Well, if it's being pushed back yet again, I would hope that it is fully up-to-date at release. I could be wrong but, I just don't see their customers being satisfied with anything less at this point. Not to mention what the competition already has out.

Heck, Emotiva plans to have their state-of-the-art pre/pro ready by that time as well. And I'm sure that many other companies would like to meet the xmas/first of the year deadline as well.

Onkyo/Integra has already show that, they could do it and at a damn good price point. The Emotiva units will be below the B&K's price. If B&K want to keep it's loyal base of clients, the unit needs to actually be better than what's on the market now.

I stated this earlier, the onboard decoding in my Toshiba sound fantastic! Even the legacy formats. And with the new models (save the REF.70) having room correction onboard, I'm seeing less of a reason to spend the extra money on $1,500.00 > units.

[Dmantis]

Everythiing does room correction of some kind now. B&K actually had a Notch filter before any Mcacc or likes. I really hope this preamp isn't a flop. I so looking forward to it.

[John Holmes]

Everythiing does room correction of some kind now. B&K actually had a Notch filter before any Mcacc or likes. I really hope this preamp isn't a flop. I so looking forward to it.

Yes sir, I agree with you. And the Notch filter on my Ref. 50 is in use as we speak! :B

But now, with $300 AVR's having room correction, how does a $2,000 and up pre/pro justify it's omission?

Please don't get me wrong, I understand that there is more to sound than equalization. However, this is something that many in the A/V hobby want. And more than will admit it need. Three or four years ago, the bugs were still being ironed out. But today, I'm not sure how this could/should be overlooked as an unimportant feature.

I too really like B&K. My Ref. 50 is a wonderful piece with fantasic sound. And, there nothing like calling a comany for support, and being able to speak with someone which had a hand in the design of your product. I just wish they were more up with the current times.

[Dmantis]

Yes sir, I agree with you. And the Notch filter on my Ref. 50 is in use as we speak! :B

But now, with $300 AVR's having room correction, how does a $2,000 and up pre/pro justify it's omission?

Please don't get me wrong, I understand that there is more to sound than equalization. However, this is something that many in the A/V hobby want. And more than will admit it need. Three or four years ago, the bugs were still being ironed out. But today, I'm not sure how this could/should be overlooked as an unimportant feature.

I too really like B&K. My Ref. 50 is a wonderful piece with fantasic sound. And, there nothing like calling a comany for support, and being able to speak with someone which had a hand in the design of your product. I just wish they were more up with the current times.

I so agree with you. I'm so tired of anything higher end falling so far behind. Room eq is way Important. Even Crestron included it on there new receiver.

[Dmantis]

Just stopping by the say I'm still waiting............ and waiting.... and waiting.

[John Holmes]

I spoke with the buyer at my dealer last friday. He said it's still about 90 days out. I guess we'll see.

[Dmantis]

I wonder what's the hold up?

[Dmantis]

Well my latest news is the new preamp and receiver will be out at the end of July. That comes right from B&K. They should have them both on the website soon.

I really hope they include built in processing now.

[John Holmes]

The anticipation builds. :T

[Dmantis]

The anticipation builds. :T

My god dude I'm killing it over here :banghead:

[John Holmes]

Well, at least it's up on the B&K website now. It's under "Featured".

[Dmantis]

Doesn't seem to be any built in Processing for the new Audio formats. But from what I have heard, they are going to offer a upgrade. Why they didn't just include it in now I don't know.

I also don't see any Auto setup or THX.

[John Holmes]

You are correct on all accounts. I have no clue why they would put a product as such on the market.

[PMazz]

No Zone 2 anymore?

This looks to be a major disappointment.

[John Holmes]

No Zone 2 anymore?

This looks to be a major disappointment.

At this point, I couldn't agree more.

[scarpi]

Wait a minute my Reference 30 has two zones, THX processing, and a direct mode that I listen to when I play a stereo CD. It sounds fantastic on movies and music. Of course it is still out to B&K for repair (see another thread). After thinking about it, its funny, I just get their new 200.5 S2 amp and after a week, my ref 30 goes out! So I've been looking at my amp in my rack with a large empty space on the shelf above it and a bunch of dangling cords. Well I'm sure that it will be great once I get them together again.

[John Holmes]

I have no clue what B&K's logic on this matter could be. Even though I use THX post processing, I do understand (though I do not agree with) their reasons for dropping it. However, the lack of all the items which have already been mentioned in this thread, makes no sense to me at all.

[Dmantis]

I have no clue what B&K's logic on this matter could be. Even though I use THX post processing, I do understand (though I do not agree with) their reasons for dropping it. However, the lack of all the items which have already been mentioned in this thread, makes no sense to me at all.

B&K for years have been the "go to" company for me. They never let me down until now.

This preamp seems strange for todays market. there are 2 many Blu ray players on the market that don't process the audio but can pass it along to be decoded. This is the job of the preamp not the player. Receiver companies for years now have been able to decode everything. Why B&k decided not to add processing in it's "processor" is behond me.
THX I'm not cool with them dropping it. It's a useful tool to help get a room to sound good. I like it and have used it in many receivers and preamps.
Where is the Auto calibration? B&K was ahead of the game when they released there Notch filter. That was very nice and helped correct some room problems. I would have figured they would have a really good calibration system by now. They mention nothing about it.
I'm not a huge "how it looks" person. I like nice looking gear but this preamp is alittle ugle even for B&K. It wouldn't stop me from buying it myself "IF" it did everything I needed out of it.
The more I look for a new preamp, the more I want to buy a receiver (like the pioneer Elite vsx94txh) and use that as a preamp. Seperates anymore are fustrating. If I didn't have 4 ohm load speakers(Dynaudio) I would go back to receivers. There are so many nice ones on the market.

[John Holmes]

Dmantis,

I completely agree with you. I was unhappy with them dropping THX on the series 2. That was the main reason I went with the series 1 Ref 50.

And I also have seriously been looking at receivers as a pre/pro. They just seem to meet the need at the right price. I to have 4 ohm speakers or I'd probably just use a receiver as well.

I still have my Pioneer Elite 27TX. Yes it lacks some things that are convient to have, but I've always enjoyed it's sound. The Ref. 50 sounds better to me, but I too could be very happy with a current "Elite". And of course, their would be no contest on the new sound formats.

[Dmantis]

John,
Stinks don't it?
Todays market is like when DVD first came out. But they cleared that up quickly with adding DTS to everything. It was in everything. I remember the outboard processors for the new audio and having to run 6 channel out's. That kinda sucked but it went away quickly. Today it seems things in the higher end are not.

Integra and Marantz are the only preamps on the market except Denon's that can Process. I don't get it. The Integra is not for me I never liked there sound quality. Marantz's preamp looks nice and Denon's is way to much for a Denon. Denon has that very laid back no life sound that I'm not into at all. For music it's ok but for theater I'm not into it. The Pioneer Elite 94 is explosive and makes for a very nice preamp. Pioneer is releasing all there new receivers so I think I'm just gonna grab a 94.

I wanted to go back to B&K, I really did. I loved my 307. It was truely a beautiful piece. I sold it and went Rotel. Rotel is solid but lacks alot of what the B&K can do. The rsp1068 is a fine preamp and the mighty rmb1095 is a really solid amp. But hey we all gotta go our seperate ways... right???

[scarpi]

As I've posted before in this forum, my ref 30 is out to B&K for repair. I'd like to get some of your input on this issue. I sent it out on 7/24. It arrived there on 7/31 and they will call me with a repair estimate since it is not under warranty. I was thinking if they want to charge me $500 or more to fix it, I'll probably tell them to forget it and just return it to me. But since I just bought one of their new amps, I would like to have a B&K preamp. I am thinking of a possible option of buying a new ref 50 for a good price instead of a new ref 70 because of the opinions I am reading here of the ref 70 and its cost of about $3000 verses the cost of a discounted new ref 50. What do you think? I will have them repair my ref 30 if it is less than $500. Opinions??

[RenoReno2]

looks like it's released. On b&k's website it's showing it as current products

https://www.bkcomp.com

[comeup]

I happened to stop by an Magnolia A.V. today to see what they had new on display and one of the sales Rep was walking by with a new REf 70 and limited 7 channel power amp. I asked how long before you have it hooked up & ready to go and he replied in 30 or 40 minutes of course without fine tuning, so I went and had lunch and it was ready to go when I got back. Well, I will tell you this it had no composite or S video inputs but it did have something like six hdmi inputs. The composite or S video wouldn't be that important to me I don't use those inputs on anything anymore anyway. I believe it had six component inputs if I'm not mistaking don't take my word on that and balanced inputs for seven channels and then some. It uses the same remote as the previous pre-amps Ref 50 S1 and S2 which is a dam good remote I understand why not changing its better than my Harmony One that's trying to die on me already at three months old. In the looks dept. I'll give it a 10 a much better looking Pre than the older version with a much higher end look and could be compared with the Lexicon or Anthem with the same type of display really nice looking much better than my Integra 9.8 or the new Denon Pre although the B&K doesn't have nearly as many buttons but more than the previous version.
One of the things I didn't like that I like so much about my 9.8 is it doesn't have audyssey something that I really appreciate a lot I guest it doesn't need it but it sure comes in handy. I know you guys are like when is this guy going to get to the good stuff the sound quality well its good but I had such a short time to listen I only listened for maybe 20 minutes or so I don't think my opinion would be true and fare especially knowing it was not fine tuned. I only heard it with the movie Transformers and it was good but I was not blown away. They were using 3500 dollar a pair Sonus Faber fronts with the matching center and rears speakers that I'm not that crazy about to begin with so I cannot be fair on Judging this unit until I hear it with better speakers and properly setup. I must say that the speakers did sound better than they normally did so that definitely gives the B&K a plus and I'm pretty sure when setup properly it will blow us away. I would like to hear the rca outs on this unit which in comparing with the 9.8 should not be hard to beat. The 9.8 is definitely a digital unit. I believe I heard one of the reps say the B&K has the Reon video processing that I think is better than most. I love it on the 9.8. I think B&K came out with a winner in my opinion and I can't wait to hear it in a better setup and with its pricey looks I give it a thumbs :T

[Dmantis]

Cool,
I have to go check it out. I'm dying to get my hands on one to test the hell out of it.

Dan

[comeup]

Why would B&K release it without a Manual?

[John Holmes]

Why would B&K release it without a Manual?

Maybe they got feed up with people pushing them to get the Ref 70 on the streets? Thus saying, you get what you get (j/k).

It is strange for them to release it without one. I haven't made it to my dealer to see and hear it yet. Hopefully soon I'll get the chance.

One thing is for sure, there are many opinions on it already.

[comeup]

One thing is for sure, there are many opinions on it already.[/QUOTE]Heard it again and it's definitely good. John, if your not ready to buy don't listen to it, it's an attractive piece

[RenoReno2]

Has anyone compared the sound quality between a ref 50 and the 70? Is it even worth a trade up is what I'm wondering.

[John Holmes]

Finally made it to my dealer day before yesterday. They have sent people to train on the new B&K's. What I found interesting, I was told that they will not have a floor model for a few more months. When I asked why this would be, I was told "Frankly...cost.". :roll:

This was a strange response to me because, this dealer is "The" dealer San Antonio. With 9 or so demo rooms, featuring dedicated Pioneer Kuro/Elite, McIntosh, B&W, Sony, B&K, Runco, PS Audio, Rega, etc. I was even told that they plan to carry M&K again. So, I'm not quite sure what's going on there. Suffice to say, I didn't listen to the Ref 70.

[Dmantis]

Thats a strange response. What exactly does the new ref70 cost? It can't be to out of control especially compared to McIntosh. Dealers are funny. There isn't one out yet around here so I have not had the chance to listen to one.

I'm wondering if it would be a wise Idea to wait until after the new year as B&K is suppost to have an upgrade for DD HD and DTS MA. I'm sure the new units sold after the upgrade will ship with it.

[John Holmes]

Well it's like you said, dealers are strange.

I'm curious what the new year holds as well. I'm trying to hold out to see what's coming.

[omnikurt]

DSD Decoding

I know that the Ref 70 is going to have an upgrade board that will allow TrueHD/DTS Master bitstream decoding down the line. That's not such a big deal to me, as my Bluray player won't output the bitstreams anyway (Panasonic BD10AK), just MPCM. However, I'd really be interested to learn if the Ref 70 can decode a DSD bitstream over HDMI from an SACD player. I've got an Oppo DVD-A/SACD player that can send the pure DSD bitstream. Does anyone have a definitive answer?

[comeup]

Been away for a while, I know I can't be the only one that has heard it around here what do U guys think?