Current Halo software version and update issues

[Big Chief Notea]

I understand that Le Meridian are in trading difficulties. May explain the discounting. Be careful with any warranties.

[Brian]

Some of these feelings are exactly why Parasound doesn't make it public what they have in the works. Dealers know but Parasound asks that it not be made public (I work part time in HT and am a dealer). Shit happens. Some companies have no problem releasing buggy software (microsoft). Parasound's philosophy is different, they want it to work when released. They don't want to put crap in their product for the sake of keeping up with the Jones's. They really do try and make a sonically superior product first, which is why things like room correction or the latest formats are slow to come.
There's simply more to it than most consumers realize and it's not just Parasound (or Anthem or...), there are other vendors and programmers they have to wait on to get updates. Such is life! (all the above is of course, my opinion on things)

[Chetk]

Brian,

I totally understand Parasound's stance. I understand that things happen. I know that's why they aren't public about release dates.

However, many people that I quoted above said that their source was Parasound themselves. If they really don't want to egg us on, don't even mention that upgrades are coming. Just surprise us one day with a really killer, bug-free update. Then, there won't be threads like this one where everybody thinks they know everything, when, in fact, it'll most likely change.

[SpOoNmAn]

sorry dude, wasnt trying to "egg" you on. People know that my C2 is sitting at Parasound and Im in contact with them quite a bit.

Sorry for relaying information, it wont happen again.

Oh wait, yes it will :T

all this drama over keeping a C1 or C2 just because a little update hasnt hit yet is nonsense in my opinion. Either you like them or you dont.

By all means, go spend 6 grand on something better that gets upgrades on time as promised.

[nicholtl]

all this drama over keeping a C1 or C2 just because a little update hasnt hit yet is nonsense in my opinion. Either you like them or you dont.

By all means, go spend 6 grand on something better that gets upgrades on time as promised.

Amen, brotha.

[Rags]

sorry dude, wasnt trying to "egg" you on. People know that my C2 is sitting at Parasound and Im in contact with them quite a bit.

Sorry for relaying information, it wont happen again.

Oh wait, yes it will :T

all this drama over keeping a C1 or C2 just because a little update hasnt hit yet is nonsense in my opinion. Either you like them or you dont.

By all means, go spend 6 grand on something better that gets upgrades on time as promised.

I am not considering changing because of the upgrade problems. TBH the current list software updates don’t really interest me a whole lot - I was mainly hoping for hardware and other updates to improve sound quality further (its good anyway) like better DACS, Room EQ etc.

The Meridian is a better processor and so it should be given it lists at $9k. The room EQ feature really interests me as I understand the overall benefits that can be derived from it. Given its price tag it is not a competitor to the C2 and never will be - its just a case of me thinking about upgrading. For the money I think the C2 is unrivalled (after all I bought one!).

[Rags]

I understand that Le Meridian are in trading difficulties. May explain the discounting. Be careful with any warranties.

Big Chief Notea - Le Meridian is a hotel chain which as you correctly point out is in financial difficulty. Not sure what this has to do with Meridian Audio though who are the manufacturers of the G68 as well as a number of other high end audio products.

[goldear]

All right guys...I've been continuing the Parasound/Motorola/Flextronics issue alive over at AVS and I've come upon some info you may be interested in. According to Philip Brandes who supposedly spoke to an industry insider, Flextronics is getting out of the surround sound processor business.

While Philip still wants to classify this as rumor, I think it's time for someone (with connections) to get some straight answers from Parasound regarding the future of the Halo...or any of the other Motorola-based SSPs, like the new 7100.

Maybe I'm a little more paranoid than most, but I've have already been bit twice in a row with my Citation 7 followed by my Proceed AVP. Not that these (or the Parasound) will become obsolete (they are all still great products), but I would like the option of knowing what's going on so I can make a decision to stay or move on. Again...this is all second-hand talk, but I would like to here something from someone who has a connection with Parasound. Thanks

[Peter Nielsen]

Flextronics is getting out of the surround sound processor business.

Normally I would dismiss comments like this, but I just stumbled on a guy auctioning off Parasound development items in Finland that took Goldear's comment to a whole new level:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14978&item=5744859888&rd=1

Check out the other items he's recently sold: Heavy duty laboratory equipment that could very well have been used in developing electronics like the Parasound controller.

Worrying, indeed... :cry:

Peter

[smalone]

Has anyone called them and talked to them?

[Chetk]

<---Insert Jeopordy's "Final Jeopordy" theme music here--->

:tired: :Z

[NMyTree]

I'm not sure this really means anything.

Who knows why this guy is selling that equipment. It would be jumping to conclusions and a bit reactionary to automatically think the worst.

[nicholtl]

Tony, have you gotten everything and set it all up yet?

[NMyTree]

As you know I received my Halo A21 two Mondays ago. My Wharfedale Opus 2 also arrived this past Friday, at my dealers.

Unfortunately, we had a big scare this weekend (Saturday evening) when my back porch caught fire, as well as an area of about 8' x 12' ..... of the exterior wall( and vinyl-siding), and a very small area of the roof on that side. The firemen and now the "Point Of Orgin" Arson Expert say it started in our outdoor electrical outlet. A very scarey day for us.

Fortunately, no one was hurt. My son was not exposed to any smoke or anything else, as I was able to get him and the babysitter out of the house very quickly. The burn damage is isolated to the exterior of the house, along that back wall. Minimal smoke made it's way into the house and that was isolated to the kitchen and laundry room area. The soot is extremely minimal. We are very fortunate.

No smoke ever made it to any other rooms and all of our personal belongings....including all of my Audio/Video gear, were spared even the slightest of smoke or soot. None whatsoever.

Right now we are staying elsewhere until they (the Insurance company, Restoration contractors and so forth) get this all squared away and they do the work that needs to be done. The whole electrical system in the house needs to be inspected and changed. Half of the house has no electricity, as those circuit breakers are shut down. I can still work in my office, because it's on a different circuit line and it's not a problem/danger for me to be here. But I don't want my son here or us sleeping here till everything is fixed and all safe.

So in answering your question.......no. I don't have it all set up yet.

I may be able to pick up my Opus 2 this upcoming Saturday, depending on what progress is made between today and Friday, concerning the time-table of the work being done here; and if I have the time to get up to his place to pick them up. But right now we are all waiting on the Insurance company...to do their thing. So you know how that goes.

Things are a little hectic and stressful right now. But it will pass.

[goldear]

I Just got off the phone with Bob at Parasound (Tony/Richard wasn't there) and while Motorola has branched off to Freescale...and Flextronics is no longer making the platforms, Bob said that they do have another company that was associated with Flextronics still in the chain working with Freescale.

He also pointed out that while the 7100 still uses the same model number DSP (56367) as the Halo, it is a new, 6th generation processor with improvements. I asked about the upgrade and he still thinks it's slated for release by the end of the month. So far, so good.

[nicholtl]

Tony, I'm very sorry to hear all that had to happen to you. I'm glad you, your family, and all your belongings are safe and sound. Lucky you are, indeed. I guess this just goes to show that sh!t does happen to good people. But like you said, in good time, it'll pass.

Chris, that's good that Bob reassured you that the release is scheduled for the end of this month. Pessimistically speaking, that probably means mid-Feb to early-March. Odd that the Classic line's processor would have an improved DSP than the Halo.

[bhuskins]

All right guys...I've been continuing the Parasound/Motorola/Flextronics issue alive over at *** and I've come upon some info you may be interested in. According to Philip Brandes who supposedly spoke to an industry insider, Flextronics is getting out of the surround sound processor business.

While Philip still wants to classify this as rumor, I think it's time for someone (with connections) to get some straight answers from Parasound regarding the future of the Halo...or any of the other Motorola-based SSPs, like the new 7100.

Maybe I'm a little more paranoid than most, but I've have already been bit twice in a row with my Citation 7 followed by my Proceed AVP. Not that these (or the Parasound) will become obsolete (they are all still great products), but I would like the option of knowing what's going on so I can make a decision to stay or move on. Again...this is all second-hand talk, but I would like to here something from someone who has a connection with Parasound. Thanks

Around the first quarter of 2004 the A/V group at Flextronics spun off to form a new entity to solely focus on the A/V market. As many of you are aware, several companies used this group for design and development of high-end products over the last couple of years when it was a part of Flextronics. The new company is Vinci Labs. I'm not sure if they still have a loose relationship with Flextronics or not, but from everything I've personally heard about the change this is all for the better. This is mainly because the Halo project is a small project compared to something like the XBOX that Flextronics designed and builds. Where as with Vinci Labs, Parasound is one of their biggest clients (if not the biggest) because of all of Parasound’s new development projects they currently have in the works. This isn't speculation...this is what I've specifically heard. Vinci Labs is working with several other manufactures as well.

As far as the Motorola issue goes...The chips Parasound and many others are using have a very long life cycle ahead of them. There's a real likelihood that whatever is next after PLIIx will easily be handled by the Motorola chip as well.

Finally, those AVC-2500 parts on eBay actually came from a sub-contractor to Flextronics and the person selling them isn't the subcontractor either...just happens to be someone that stumbled on the parts and was looking to make a few bucks...good luck at getting $300 for misc. parts.

If anyone wants to get details about issues like this feel free to email me at huskins@charter.net or also feel free to email Paul at Parasound. His email is paul@parasound.com and he's the director of operations. I'm giving out this email address with his permission as well.

[MarkStega]

For further info, go to http://www.vincilabs.com/ where you can read about the transition from FlexTronics (sounds more like a rename rather than a split on the web site, I presume Brent has it right though) as well as get information about the two platforms; The Titan is obviously the basis for the C1/C2 (and shows Component Video transcoding, HDMI switching (Spring 2005), & future room correction as features that exist now (or just about now) in the platform that did not when the C1/C2 were produced). And the Sound1 is pretty obviously the 7100 platform.

So it looks to me that fear about the continuity of the platform should be quashed. :lol:

[goldear]

Thanks Brent and Mark....that's great news. I was actually reading a lot of the Flextronics news and they did appear to be going in a different direction...especially in the area of wireless communications and portable audio, cells and MP3/WMA, etc. I'm just glad someone else picked up the slack.

[JamesE]

Is the current C1/C2 the Titan platform? If so, is the Generation 7 DSP decorder board a replacement of the existing C1/C2 board or an add on board? With the new Titan platform they talk of 10 channels. I count 8 (7.1) plus 4 programable channels. 10 vs. 12--how does this work? What Motorola processors does it use? Built in parametric eq.--Wow, this is pretty exciting. I hope it doesn't break the bank.

[Kingdaddy]

I wonder if the proposed "Room Correction" will be only for the sub frequencies or full range correction. I already have a BFD that does a fine job on the low end, I need midrange control or at least a few tone adjustments. Should we even ask about the release date for any of these software upgrades anymore? Seems like all we hear is tomorrow, next week, next month, soon. Guess I'll go back to working on my new center channel project and forget about any software upgrades, maybe this is like dating, as soon as you quit looking for it, something happens.

[SpOoNmAn]

The update isn't ready. I requested my C2 be shipped back to me ASAP, I can no longer put up with this receiver as pre/pro to my halo amp. Its killing me my friends.

I have some interested buyers for the C2 so we will see what happens with that. If it sells, I get a C1. Why? why not, its a different toy and I want it

[Savannah]

The Titan upgrade platform also includes a feature called High quality upsampling.
Any one with any ideas as to what that might mean

[nicholtl]

I'm guessing it's similar to Pioneer's Legato Pro Hi-Bit Upsampling.

[goldear]

The current Halo does have upsampling in the form of Stereo96, which upsamples 2 channels from 44.1/48 to 96khz. I would assume that any upgrade may impliment an all-channel upsample as some new SSPs seem to do that...even possibly to 192Khz.

"Is the current C1/C2 the Titan platform? If so, is the Generation 7 DSP decorder board a replacement of the existing C1/C2 board or an add on board?""

Yes, the current platform in the Halo is a Titan. From what I gather this platform...or more specifically, the DSP Freescale 56367 has gone through several incarnations. There also appears to be peripheral devices that can accompany this DSP to form the platform and add more flexibility.

I would assume that since the DPLIIx upgrade is a software revision, that some flexibility can be added by re-writing the system...while the more complex additions will require a board-swap to add the newest 56367 version and whatever peripheral devices needed to complete the platform.

""With the new Titan platform they talk of 10 channels. I count 8 (7.1) plus 4 programable channels. 10 vs. 12--how does this work? What Motorola processors does it use?""

They are still using the earlier 56367...but by the looks of the 7100, the newer 56367 will have much more flexibility. There is a lot of speculation about new channels...with Dolby + and HD-DTS talking about systems "capable" of handling 13 or more channels. Whether this comes to fruition is still pending since what they are really talking about is more bandwidth and higher bit-rates. And even then, it may need a highbandwidth transmission line like HDMI.

While the Halo and some other processors advertize 7.1/7.5/9 channels of sound, the fact is there is currently only the discrete 5.1 (or the few DTS 6.1) encoded systems for playback. The additional channels are simply matrixed/processed channels from the discrete originals.

While these additional channels are nice...especially the configurable ones in the Halo, the fact is there is barely software support for the extended channels that are available. I personally wouldn't mind a discrete 7.1 system with the remaining bandwidth used to improve the sonics on those.

[RJKuzma]

Upsampling

Upsampling resamples or interpolates incoming digital bit rates from 44.1kHz or 48kHz to a higher rate, usually 96kHz or 192kHz. The C1/C2 already does this when in Stereo96 mode. Since the Titan indicates "192kHz DAC audio performance", I would assume that Stereo96 will now become Stereo192.

[Rags]

Did I just read room EQ ?

There is nothing AV wise I would love to have more than a C2 with room eq on board. Is this a realistic expectancy ?

[Peter Nielsen]

Did I just read room EQ ?

There is nothing AV wise I would love to have more than a C2 with room eq on board. Is this a realistic expectancy ?

Yes, it is realistic. I asked Parasound to put it on their "wishlist" for the C2. In the e-mail reply I got from Richard Schram, he said something along the lines that it certainly is possible...

I'm guessing that they are going to implement it "right" with a fully automatic calibration too... :B

Peter

[Chetk]

I have some interested buyers for the C2 so we will see what happens with that. If it sells, I get a C1. Why? why not, its a different toy and I want it

SpOoNmAn, stick with the C2. I think you'll be happier. The screen of the C1 actually makes it more difficult to read your settings. I have the C1 and I never pass video through the tiny screen. It stretches 16:9 into 4:3 and it makes it nearly impossible to read any OSD when it's overylayed on top of the video.

I can honestly say that I would be screwed if I hadn't have gotten LASIK a few years ago.

Of course, you could always have a separate screen set up with the output of the OSD from the C1, but that's a lot of trouble just to switch from the C2.

Unless you specifically need another component input, I'd stick to the C2.

[Peter Nielsen]

Of course, you could always have a separate screen set up with the output of the OSD from the C1, but that's a lot of trouble just to switch from the C2.

Uh... What did you try to say, really? :?:

Why upgrade at all if you need a separate screen? The C2 and C1 will perform the same with a separate screen. The C1 is nothing but a C2 in a bigger box, a builtin 5" LCD hooked up directly to the OSD output and a third set of RGBHV inputs... Hook up an external LCD to the C1 and C2 and put some duct tape over the C1 LCD and the third set of RGBHV inputs. Now the units will perform 100% the same :??

In a different thread I also tried to tell spoonman that the C2 plus an external 17" LCD probably is nicer than the C1. A brand new 17" LCD costs $300 max. Why spend 2-3 times that amount to upgrade to the C1 and still need the external $300 LCD... :B

I just remembered that Spoonman said that he will get the C1 just for the joy(?) of upgrading... (Why not a set of JC1s instead? That would be money much more well spent!!! ;h)

Peter

[SpOoNmAn]

Uh... What did you try to say, really? :?:

Why upgrade at all if you need a separate screen? The C2 and C1 will perform the same with a separate screen. The C1 is nothing but a C2 in a bigger box, a builtin 5" LCD hooked up directly to the OSD output and a third set of RGBHV inputs... Hook up an external LCD to the C1 and C2 and put some duct tape over the C1 LCD and the third set of RGBHV inputs. Now the units will perform 100% the same :??

In a different thread I also tried to tell spoonman that the C2 plus an external 17" LCD probably is nicer than the C1. A brand new 17" LCD costs $300 max. Why spend 2-3 times that amount to upgrade to the C1 and still need the external $300 LCD... :B

I just remembered that Spoonman said that he will get the C1 just for the joy(?) of upgrading... (Why not a set of JC1s instead? That would be money much more well spent!!! ;h)

Peter

ummmmmmm

I just went from the A52 to the A51 not even 2 weeks ago. Why is it so bad that I get the C1 and sell my C2 to someone really cheap so they can enjoy the wonders of Halo gear? :T

JC1's? thats 2 massive blocks for mains, and nothing that comes close to matching for center and surrounds, power wise. No its not needed to match, but I like to do things by the book.

My Powered deftechs dont need JC1's, holy hell the little A52 thrashed them about :E Thats a lot of $$ for 2 amps, then I'd need another amp for the rest of the speakers, Noooooooo thanks, Thats just insanity 8)

:B

hell, while were at it, how about 5 JC1's, yeah that sounds like a plan :lol:

[nicholtl]

5? Why stop there? One day I'll have 9 for my 9.1 setup!

The brothers do have a point though. Why upgrade from a C2 to a C1, when in actuality, it's more of a lateral movement? Unless the upgrade is purely aesthetic, which I can certainly understand. =)

[SpOoNmAn]

5? Why stop there? One day I'll have 9 for my 9.1 setup!

The brothers do have a point though. Why upgrade from a C2 to a C1, when in actuality, it's more of a lateral movement? Unless the upgrade is purely aesthetic, which I can certainly understand. =)

purely :T and because I can :B

[Peter Nielsen]

Why upgrade from a C2 to a C1, when in actuality, it's more of a lateral movement? Unless the upgrade is purely aesthetic, which I can certainly understand.

In my opinion that's an aesthetic downgrade. Sure enough, the C1 is the same height as my two JC1 and the A51. However, I still think the C2 looks better... I like the sleaker look of the C2 and I also think the C2 display is nicer and easier to read at a distance...

Each one to his own. (FWIW, the price difference between the C1 and C2 was $600 in my case. I did not feel that the C1 was worth that price difference...)

Peter

[Peter Nielsen]

JC1's? thats 2 massive blocks for mains, and nothing that comes close to matching for center and surrounds, power wise. No its not needed to match, but I like to do things by the book.

What "book" is that? Most information I've come across put the emphasis on the front and center channel.

Personally, I prefer to have bigger fronts (stereo listening) and smaller speakers for the rest of the channels. The 7' tall Magnepan 20.1 stretch from the bottom to the top of the room, which by the "book", is ideal. My surrounds, on the other hand, are the much smaller Magnepan CC3 mounted 4' above ear level, again, by the "book"...

FWIW, I think using 3 pairs of the 20.1 Maggies would be kind of overkill, don't you think? :B The CC3 is IMHO perfect for surround, but a tad small for a center with the 20.1. Fortunately Magnepan has realized that too and will be releasing a brand new CC20.1 true ribbon center to match the 20.1s...

For a movie experience, the JC1s are maybe nothing but "two massive blocks", however, in STEREO listening they make a night-and-day difference in comparison to the A51...

Peter

[SpOoNmAn]

so you want me to get 3 jc1's for front 3, and another halo 2 channel for surrounds, and when i get 7.1, another 2 channel Halo...yeah riiiiiiiight. Ill get on that ok? Muwhahaha

my A51 is powering nothing but 5" mids and tweeters in ALL speakers, nothing below 125Hz. I think its "good" enough" :T

[Peter Nielsen]

so you want me to get 3 jc1's for front 3, and another halo 2 channel for surrounds, and when i get 7.1, another 2 channel Halo...yeah riiiiiiiight. Ill get on that ok? Muwhahaha

Maybe that's what your "book" setup requires -- but drop the 2 channel Halo! Of course you will need SEVEN JC1s for that "book" setup :B

Personally I think a pair of JC1 for the fronts and a single A51 for the rest of the channels (center/surrounds/rears) is perfect...

However, I've been playing with the idea of bi-amping the MG20.1s with 4 JC1s instead of just two :drool: But that's probably overkill... Got to stop before it goes too crazy :??

Anyway, to get back on topic: If I understand correctly, you don't have a 7 channel setup yet? I would spend the money on that instead of upgrading the C2 to a C1. With a lot of things going on at Parasound, now is probably not the best time to get the C1 (think about it - it's almost 2 years old!). Who knows, maybe Parasound soon releases a C1u that adds HDMI switching and other goodies?! Upgrading the processor is like upgrading your computer - the value will drop dramatically in a year or two! (That's why I suggested spending your money on upgrades that are holding their value better, such as getting power amps or speakers instead).

The bottom line is that my suggestion is to wait with the controller upgrade and put your money on something that doesn't drop in value overnight...

Peter

[SpOoNmAn]

dont have the room for 7.1, fireplace 3ft to my right and listening position isnt centered. It would be setup incorrectly and I will not stand for that.

I think Ill buy a few C1's and take pics for you

[Peter Nielsen]

I think Ill buy a few C1's and take pics for you

Good call! Maybe that will give Parasound an incentive to speed up software development :B (After all, it's the software that costs in the C1/C2. That's what we're paying for!)

Peter

[Chetk]

SpOoNmAn must like for us to think he's rich.

I also think the C2 display is nicer and easier to read at a distance

It is...easier to read that is.

The C1 is nothing but a C2 in a bigger box, a builtin 5" LCD hooked up directly to the OSD output and a third set of RGBHV inputs.

I believe it also has a different power supply, but that is neither here nor there. Disclaimer: The preceeding "power supply info" was given to me by my Parasound authorized reseller. :B

[SpOoNmAn]

If I was rich Id be buying all new Bryston gear, massive 7B SST monoblocks for every speaker. All while snapping pics of my 12 C1's Im buying just for Peters sake :lol:

oh wait thats next fall, I have a lot of riding to do this summer. :T

[nicholtl]

Move the fireplace, or crush it altogether, and set up that 7.1! If you're like me, the living room is designed around the home theater, not the other way around. :B

[SpOoNmAn]

Move the fireplace, or crush it altogether, and set up that 7.1! If you're like me, the living room is designed around the home theater, not the other way around. :B

I am like you, but Im renting the house. Its set up the best way possible for the time being. 5 months left on the lease and I might be moving to Connecticut when its up. Whenever I get settled in(could be 10 years), I'll be making a seperate structure for a theatre.

I have too many hobbies and come warm weather, I wont be inside until fall again. I have a bike to ride. By the time cold weather returns, Im sure I will be once again changing out all components and getting different ones :T

[Peter Nielsen]

Move the fireplace, or crush it altogether, and set up that 7.1! If you're like me, the living room is designed around the home theater, not the other way around. :B

Absolutely. Who needs fireplaces :B FWIW, I have a dedicated "media room" (16x24') for my gear. My living room has way too many windows to serve as home theatre... Having a separate room also has the nice bonus feature that whetever gear you'll get, the wife won't complain. Big plus :B

Peter

[Peter Nielsen]

I believe it also has a different power supply, but that is neither here nor there. Disclaimer: The preceeding "power supply info" was given to me by my Parasound authorized reseller. :B

Ah, of course, that makes sense! The LCD needs some more juice...

Peter