What's wrong with my stock power cable?

[Music4Life]

I don't understand the logic of upgrading the power cord will make the sound of my system (power amp, pre, CDP or DAC) fuller and better than using the stock (thin and cheap). How can a thick and expensive power cord makes my system better?

[r100gs]

Been there done that. It made no difference in the sound on my system. Looks good only.

[Peter Nielsen]

How can a thick and expensive power cord makes my system better?

The same way a Rolex or jewelry makes you better :B

I think a Rolex vs cheap watch analogy works fine. Both watches do the job equally well. There is a chance that the cheap watch will throw in the towel early though...

Same thing with power cords. They do the job the same. There is a bigger chance that the cheap power cord might pop out of the wall socket and everything stops working... An expensive power cord COMBINED with a high quality outlet makes for a very tight fit and you have to pull really hard to disconnect the two. No chance that happens by accident. Oh, and the expensive cord looks more impressive too...

The cheap cords work fine. However, when you buy for instance a $18,000 processor and get a $3 cheap computer cord, you might want to splurge an additional $50 for something that feels a little less cheap even though you know the cheapo cord will work just fine...

The same things apply to the car industry and its accessories. A cheap $10 Accutire tire pressure gauge is sold for $50 to Porsche customers. The only difference is a printed Porsche logo on the case. The Swedish made high quality Battery Trickle Chargers that nomally sell for $60 are supplied as a Lambo accessory for $250. Exact same unit functionally, but this time in a Lamborghini branded case...

FWIW: The standard gray power cords shipped with Parasound Halo gear are IMHO pretty good quality. No need to replace them...

Oh, but actually there is ONE big advantage: custom cables = custom lengths. This can be really attractive in a fixed installation. No mess! :T

Peter

[LAMark]

Peter,

I am a regular reader of this forum and I respect your experience and knowledge a lot. That said, I have to say that I have had some positive results from upgrading power cords. Like with fuses, interconnects, power filtration, and other tweaks, there are certainly snake oil salespeople willing to pluck our hard-earned dollars from our hands, as well as a certain amount of "if it's this expensive it must be good" mentality that they prey on.

In my case, a local dealer has a generous "try before you buy" program for cords, so I've tried a few. Settled on Analysis Plus as an upgrade and with careful A-B-A-B testing (which is pretty easy with power cords) found subtle but repeatable improvements using them on my front end, preamp, and yes even my A21. My wife is my "golden ears" blind tester for this type of comparison, but once she characterizes the changes brought by the new stuff I can always hear it. It's not like the kind of changes brought by new speakers or a new source, but very real, at least to me.

Mark.

[Peter Nielsen]

Unless someting is WRONG with the stock power cords, it should not make a difference, especially not for short distances.

However, if you run the power cords close to signal cables, then shielded power cords could possibly make a difference because of the shielding. (However, the same effect could be achieved by carefully routing the stock power cord away from any signal cables).

A much more significant improvement is to replace the wall receptacle with 20A hospital grade receptacles and pull #12 Romex all the way to the electrical panel. I have done this and I'm happy with this upgrade. Having separate dedicated circuits makes sense. I can't say that I noticed any audible differences though.

Before pulling dedicated circuits, my room lights flickered to the beat of the bass when playing loud. The standard 15A #14 circuits were not up to the task to provide enough power and would cause a significant enough power drop under load...

with careful A-B-A-B testing (which is pretty easy with power cords)

How is that easy? If the cord is disconnected or the amp is powered down, the comparison is effectively nullified.

The only way to test this properly is to have two identical amps and speakers. One amp uses cord A and the other uses cord B. The amps are allowed to warm up and stabilize. Then you do a BLIND A/B test by having another person putting through the same signal in A and B in random order. If it's done this way you can gather meaningful results.

Peter

[Music4Life]

Thank you for all intelligent opinions. Now I know that there is nothing wrong with my power cord (for now ).

[Chris D]

Well, the problem with your power cord IS that you're not lining Noel Lee's pockets.

... right?

... all hail the mighty mighty Monster, juggernaut of the audio/video/remote/electronics/grocery/baseball/everything world?

:lol:

[Peter Nielsen]

Well, the problem with your power cord IS that you're not lining Noel Lee's pockets.

... right?

... all hail the mighty mighty Monster, juggernaut of the audio/video/remote/electronics/grocery/baseball/everything world?

:lol:

:agree: :^x

[LAMark]

Not defending Monster. They have decent products but their business practices are...despicable. And the stock grey power cords that came with my C1, A21 and A51 seem rugged and well-made. But I know what my ears have told me-I was able to make a small but noticeable improvement by upgrading to an aftermarket cord on my A21.

I guess I'm in the "everything makes a difference" camp. But it has to start with Room, Speakers, Source, Amp, Preamp more or less in that order in terms of impact. Interconnects, power delivery (dedicated lines, filtering, regeneration etc), power cords come next. At least an order of magnitude less impact than those first items (i.e. potential for improvement) but real nonetheless in my opinion. Then come other tweaks-too many to list, and many of these get in to the absolutely unbelievable. There is one company that for $50 will *call you on the phone* and somewhow that will improve your sound quality. The phone call itself is supposed to help, not info they provide you. Amazing. Even I am not that desperate.

By the way, for those interested there is a pretty good book called Get Better Sound by Jim Smith that has a lot of good practical tweaking advice. No affiliation here, but I did learn a lot from this book.

[djmobley]

Oh, but actually there is ONE big advantage: custom cables = custom lengths. This can be really attractive in a fixed installation. No mess! :T
Peter

Where can someone order some inexpensive but good custom length power cords?

Secondly (and a little off-topic) I have a Parasound A21 amplifier. Should I plug this directly into the wall outlet or into some kind of power conditioner? I have been told recently that it is better to plug it directly in the wall and not to worry about power surges etc... because of how the amp is built it can withstand these types of things.

Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

[Chris D]

Heya, djmobley, welcome to the Guide and Club Parasound! :banana:

Doug at Cat Cables, also the site owner here does make custom power cables as well. You would do well to click on the links at the top and bottom of the page, to see his stuff!

[Mike B]

Back in the old days...

Power cords were strain relieved at the chassis and soldered in.

Nobody ever changed them, they sounded fine.

Now there are IEC connectors so there are aftermarket power cords.

I would rather have them soldered in, one less mechanical connection to corrode and create noise.

[djmobley]

Doug at Cat Cables, also the site owner here does make custom power cables as well. You would do well to click on the links at the top and bottom of the page, to see his stuff!

Thanks for the advice, I'll check it out.

[Peter Nielsen]

Back in the old days...

Power cords were strain relieved at the chassis and soldered in.

Nobody ever changed them, they sounded fine.

Now there are IEC connectors so there are aftermarket power cords.

I would rather have them soldered in, one less mechanical connection to corrode and create noise.

Soldered-in power cords is as cheap as it gets. While it works well, it's impractical with today's equipment that often has a worldwide power supply. The IEC connector is a worldwide standard that makes it easy for anyone to transport and use a device worldwide. Not so with older equipment that forced you into splicing the cord or buying overpriced plug adaptors of dubious quality... (Remembering when I brought my ~15 pieces of 80's Technics equipment over from Finland to the US. Most of the units had a voltage selector, but the power cord was not replacable on a few pieces => power plug adapter galore! As far as I remember, none of the units used an IEC, but some of the low power units used a C7 connector, which is just as practical as the IEC albeit intended for lower current devices that don't need a ground connection).

I very much prefer an IEC connector that lets me use a power cord (cheap or expensive) with the length and gauge of my choice...

I remember working at an RTV service in the early '80s and the numerous service items that only needed a power cord replacement because the pet had chewed off the isolation or something else had happened to the cord... That was one expensive service for something that the customer could have fixed themselves at a comparatively small cost, had an IEC or C7 connector been used in the device...

Peter

[Kingdaddy]

I too have tried power cords and power conditioners and could find no difference what so ever.

However,..
Fuses will definitely make a difference; smaller gage wire (lower amp) equals more attenuation. Don’t know about quality of the fuse though. I once blew a tweeter fuse and didn’t have the same amperage replacement so I put a smaller one until I could get another of the same and the two channels were severely lopsided in high frequency.

[LAMark]

Getting back to the original question from Music4Life, the question of "how" changing power cords work is subject to a lot of documentation from the people developing and selling them (on their websites for instance), and frankly a lot of it is BS. However, some of them appear to be on to something. You will find a large percentage of high-end audio systems use after market power cords, and yes in some cases people probably buy them just because they are available. However a great number of these people actually do care how they spend their money and don't simply throw it away. Look on Audiogon or Audio Asylum (well named) and take a look at people's systems there.

I think of the whole thing a lot like I think of chiropractors. I go to one and it seems to help. I don't engage them in a discussion of the "theory" of alignment and such, since in its purest form it's obviously bogus. But it *works*, at least for me.

So, if you are interested, try to find a dealer that will let you audition these things in your home. Many will do that. Try to see what works in your system. You might be surprised, just as I am when I leave the chiropractor office walking a little easier than when I go in.

[nxym]

power cable

My country uses 220-240v 50hz instead 120v 60 in USA. My C2 has the grey power cable with USA connector which is different from my wall outlet. Now i use an after market cable to connect it on my outlet but i found an adaptor at 240v that converts the wall outlet to USA plug. I thought to replace the after market with the default power cord with this but i dont know if i can use this cable with europe electric charasterics. Does these be dangerous? (other limits on amperes, volts, hz)? .
Which method is preferable? Leave it as is? Change it with defalut? Take other more shielded cale?

[Peter Nielsen]

My country uses 220-240v 50hz instead 120v 60 in USA. My C2 has the grey power cable with USA connector which is different from my wall outlet. Now i use an after market cable to connect it on my outlet but i found an adaptor at 240v that converts the wall outlet to USA plug. I thought to replace the after market with the default power cord with this but i dont know if i can use this cable with europe electric charasterics. Does these be dangerous? (other limits on amperes, volts, hz)? .
Which method is preferable? Leave it as is? Change it with defalut? Take other more shielded cale?

Short reply: Don't sweat it. Leave it as it is.

Long reply:

The C2 has a worldwide power supply (100-240V 50/60Hz). No adaptor needed. Just use a regular IEC to Schuko power cord. (You can modify a US cable by cutting off the US NEMA plug and replacing it with a Schuko plug. Remember that yellow/green goes to ground. No difference between live and neutral in Europe. Europe uses non-polarized plugs unlike the US).

That said, never assume a regular power cord will work with just any piece of equipment. Always check the voltage requirement of the equipment first! (Most Parasound power amps need to be rewired!)

If you really want to be on the safe side, get one of the easily available CE/TÜV approved IEC-Schuko cords (sounds like this is what you are using, and that's perfect!). The US NEMA cable is not approved for use in the EU, so using it with an adapter or modifying it by switching out the plug means walking a thin line. Switching out the plug is generally fine, and is definitely safe with Parasound's stock power cords. However, the cable still is not an approved cable although it may be safe... AVOID ADAPTORS AT ALL COST! Any kind of adaptor in the mains circuit poses a possible danger and should be avoided. Mains adaptors are generally designed for travel (temporary) use only.

Peter

[brodricj]

I have upgraded all my power cords, and several of my fuses, and it makes a difference. There is a presence to the music with the upgraded power components that is just not there with stock cords. I have made a huge investment in these power cords, whether the improvement is worth the investment is arguable. What is not arguable is they do bring improvement, in my system.

[Peter Nielsen]

I went into rather the opposite direction. Previously I ran 8 AWG cables (10 mm^2) directly from the amp to the speakers. Each cable was almost 3/8" thick!

Now I'm using thinner 10 AWG (6 mm^2) in-wall cable with Neutrik Speakon connectors at both ends in addition to the regular terminal connections at the speaker and amp. (Amplifier->WBT645->Speakon plug->Speakon wall->in wall wire->Speakon wall->Speakon plug->WBT645->Speaker).

The lower gauge, the longer wire run, and the added (inexpensive) Speakon connectors did not affect the sound in an audible way. If anything, I feel much better about the installation now since I don't have to see all those thick cables running along the floor board (with everything biamped and each cable 3/8" thick I used to have a huge cable bundle running along the floor boards).

Everything is now neatly hidden in the wall using UL CL3 rated cables. The only visible cables are the short 4-14 AWG wires between each speaker and 4-pole Speakon connector on the wall. I prefer it this way and would not go back...

Peter

[Peter Nielsen]

Here's a good read... Basically, fear uncertainty and doubt has ruled the past decades. Fortunately people are starting to wake up...

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Peter

[rickc]

I upgraded all of my power cords with transparent and it made a huge difference. Just try a $100 cord from Transparent and you will notice the difference right away. Well worth the investment.

[Dmantis]

The best thing about after market power cords is you now have the ability to get the length right. Not to mention they look cool.

I have tried just about every top end powercord and I can find other tweaks to make the system work better. But I have noticed slight differences in some big power amps and preamps. Sources I didn't hear hardly anything if anything. I tried for years. My system is wired in aftermarket powercords, it makes me feel better.

Dan

[Peter Nielsen]

The best thing about after market power cords is you now have the ability to get the length right. Not to mention they look cool.

I have tried just about every top end powercord and I can find other tweaks to make the system work better. But I have noticed slight differences in some big power amps and preamps. Sources I didn't hear hardly anything if anything. I tried for years. My system is wired in aftermarket powercords, it makes me feel better.

I agree 100%. Very good comments! :T

BTW, you forgot to mention the speakers... The speakers and - even more imporant - the room (don't forget room treatments) have by far the biggest impact on the sound we hear.

Speaker model/type, speaker positioning, and room acoustics. These work together and affect the sound we hear. Here's where the most of the tweaking should be focussed.

Peter

[frasse74]

hi all

I have mad my cables myself with a cable from Lappgroup with some plugs from furutech and those works fine for me
and i think that those make a big + to my system :T

looks like this



this one

http://www.lappusa.com/Spec_Template.asp?nGroupID=1085

it dosen cost so much $$$ to buy and it do a great job for me

here is a guide with belden powercord

diy guide


have a nice day

[Peter Nielsen]

I agree 100%! This is a good DIY project. The best thing is that you can reuse the plugs if you need a longer cable in the future, or if you need the cable shorter, that can be done for free! What's not to like about that?!

[dmob]

I'm thinking about buying some of these power cords. They seem to very similar to the DYI cables mentioned above and you can buy them in 1 foot increments.

http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-video/custom-audio-and-video-cables/power-cables/shielded-power-cable-pc/prodPC.html

[Peter Nielsen]

14 awg is fine for most equipment, but rather thin for power amps, unless you're at 220/240V like frasse74 (the double voltage means that the current requirement is cut in half and consequently a thinner cable can be used). At 120V, I'd recommend 12 or 10 awg for the power amp...