Stereo Subs... HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[smalone]

Ok, I just stumbled onto two Totem Thunders to go with my 8 Model 1 Signatures and want to setup stereo subs. I have been messing around with the 9 and 10 Pro Channels but have had not luck getting bass out of them? I set up a Lowpass filter on both channels at 60Hz and I set the channel 9 to +100 Left and the rest are set to -100 and then on channel 10 I set it to +100 Right and the rest to -100. I have tried setting the main speakers to large and small with sub on and off and even tried enhanced bass but I just do not get anything?

Is this the correct setup or am I missing something?

[Kingdaddy]

Are you trying existing subs on the Programmable channels or your main speakers?

[Chris D]

Hey... there's a couple threads in here about dual/stereo subs, so just search for more info.

In general, people shy away from trying to do stereo subs where each one puts out different signals. More complicated, you can get more cancellations, and since bass frequencies are non-directional to the human ear, it doesn't care whether it's hearing a bass note from the left of the room or the right.

My two subs are set up duplicating the same signal, using the primary subwoofer output and the Pro 2 channel. Now you just have to worry mostly about placement to avoid level additions and cancellations between the two.

A few things for you to check:

- make sure you have the right jack connections (Pro channels 9 and 10 in the menu correspond to jacks Pro 1 and 3 in the back panel)
- Make sure you're using the filter correctly to block signals ABOVE your cutoff frequency and not below (you can check by removing the filters)
- Setting certain channels in the programmable mixture to +100 or -100 only affects the phase of that signal. Both are put out at 100%, so that won't decrease the volume of the bass output
- mostly, based on what you're saying, I would check the config of the subs themselves to make sure you're using the right inputs and switch positions. To check, plug one into the Halo main subwoofer output so you know it's not the programmable channels.

[smalone]

Just a quick post on my background and update:

I am an A/V installation Technician and service technician for a fairly large A/V company in PA thus the access to some good gear at an even better price. ;-)

I would not say I am the best in the field (as that would be bragging and would give me a ballooned up head) :-0 .... but I feel that I am fairly knowledgeable when it come to them-there-Pre/Pros.

“- Setting certain channels in the programmable mixture to +100 or -100 only affects the phase of that signal. Both are put out at 100%, so that won't decrease the volume of the bass output”

Very good information Chris. I just found that part mentioned in the manual and now it makes sense.

So you are saying that with all of them set to “0” you should get nothing out of the Pro channels? Correct.

So the way I originally had them set should work which would be:

Lowpass filter at 60Hz and I set the channel 9 (Pro 1) to +100 Left and the rest are set to “0” and then on channel 10 (Pro 3) I set it to +100 Right and the rest to “0”.

Does that look correct?

Also I could set LFE to “100” and that would then should give me “Stereo” subs with HT LFE when I listen to 5.1/6.1 material. Correct?

Both Totem Thunders do work VERY well when I have them hooked up to the unbalanced Sub output and Pro 2 (same as sub output) jacks by the way. The subs have switches on the back of them to “BYPASS” the there built in crossovers which I do have set to “BYPASS” as recommended in the manual.

As for the update: I set it all back to what I have listed above and I do get some bass if I up the output on the Pro channel all the way up to +15 but it is still a lot less then when using the Sub outputs?

Thoughts?

[Q-Man]

I don't own a C1 or C2. I'm still on the fence, so I shouldn't attempt to answer your question.

I did download and read the manual a while back. I believe that the #9 & 10 channels receive a full bandwidth signal. In that case if you use a 60Hz low pass filter won't that then be sending any signal below 60Hz. to the sub output, and not the 9 & 10 channels? I think you need to use a 60Hz high pass filter. This should filter out the signals above 60Hz from the 9 & 10 channels.

I better go read the manual again, before I make myself sound like a complete
idiot.

[smalone]

No idiots here... just A/V junkies looking for the ultimate high! ;-)

Every manufacturer uses different terminology as far as the highpass/lowpass thing.

But reading the Halo manual it does mention that on the Pro 4 channel for bass shakers that everything above 20Hz is filtered out and that they are using a “lowpass” filter, which to me means that “lowpass” means that anything “lower” then what you have set as the cutoff freq. gets passed.

Of course I could be wrong as I have been wrong once before in my life… and yes she does still live with me! LOL!

[Chris D]

Hey, smalone, based on what you said at the end of your last post, it sounds like the subs are working correctly for the way you've got them set up. Now, you realize that with one sub set to 100% left and all other channels 0, it is putting out partial signals from your LEFT CHANNEL only? As in you're not getting any bass (or otherwise) included in your center channel, right main, surrounds, or even LFE? So you're not even getting the bass included in the dedicated .1 subwoofer channel. Same with the right. So you're cutting out 95% of the bass signal in your audio.

If you really want to stay with "stereo" subs, you may want to try as a starting point:

LEFT SUB
100% left
50% center
100% left surround
50% back
50% LFE
0% all others

RIGHT SUB
100% right
50% center
100% right surround surround
50% back
50% LFE
0% all others

that way each channel is represented 100% in the proper manner. Adjust as appropriate.

To be clear on the filter, if you have a "60 Hz LOWPASS", it will do just that--pass the LOW FREQUENCIES below the cutoff, and block the remaning. (it's not a crossover, where all frequencies below the cutoff goes to one place, all above go to another)

Hope this doesn't confuse the issue, but for the programmable channel, it DUPLICATES the signals from the channels you select in the mix. It doesn't take away any of the signal from the channels you select. The point here is that if you're using progammable channels for subs, not the main sub output with a crossover, select a filter point so that your subs get bass frequencies only below what your speakers are putting out. Otherwise you'll have DOUBLE the frequencies being duplicated.

[smalone]

Chris, I take it from your settings you are refering to 5.1 listening?

For my setup I was mainly concerned with just 2-channel music listening.

For 5.1 I am using other subs to produce the entire range of channels from 60Hz and below including a rear theater sub.

[Chris D]

Aha! Wow, man, that's advanced. How are you doing the connections, don't you have to reconfigure the entire setup whether you're doing music or 5.1 through the Halo?

[smalone]

Not to advanced really….

What I have setup now are the two Pro channels setup for Stereo Subs and then I am using the Balanced Sub out to a QSC amp that is powering two subs that only come on via the 12 Volt trigger which is only active when Dim is selected on the C2. It would be nice if the triggers could be set to surround modes but they did not add that option in the last firmware upgrade.

I also have the bass-shakers turn off via an X10 module when only listening to stereo music and have them kick on when I am watching movies. This module is controlled via and X10 interface card in my AMX system which also controls the lights in the theaters.

For the rear sub I was using one of the Pro channels to extract just the side and rear channel bass but with only 2 configurable Pro channels I can only use the rear sub with the unbalanced sub output which is just the standard sub output instead of just the rears.

To bad they did not make all 4 Pro channels configurable. Maybe in the next upgrade?

I am going to try to the stereo subs for awhile and then switch them back to just regular sub output and see if I notice any change when listing to stereo sound playback.