Anyone upgraded from the 802Di to 800Di?

[Rod#S]

Hello;

Like the thread title asks I'm looking to see if anyone has owned the 802 Diamond and then later moved up to the 800 Diamond? I'm not talking about the previous models, the 'D' i.e. upgrading from a 802D to a 800D or even moving from a 802D to the 800 Diamond. The consensus seems to be that the new Diamonds series are a step up from the original so that's why I'm only looking for such specific speaker to speaker move comments as I'm scared if comments are based on moving between series it's more like comparing apples and oranges.

I would like to hear why you made the move and what it was that the 800 had or perhaps had more of than the 802 with the execption of the obvious, the larger bass drivers capable of delivering a bit more low end How long you had the 802 Diamond and how long you had the 800 Diamond would help as it gives me an idea how familiar you were/are with each model.

Thanks

[Skyblue]

I had the 802s for 4 months before upgradingto 800's. Both the new model.

Why? Well, two reasons. First, I thought that the 802s lacked bass. So after a month I ordered 800s instead. They took 3 months to deliver. However, it turned out that the problem was not so much lack of bass, but that they simply hadn't broken in yet. When the 800s finally arrived, the 802s sounded spetacular.

The other reason i upgraded was because of the midrange. The 800's midrange is fantastic. 802s are good, but they get killed by the 800's. Upper range I think is about the same, and lower range doesn't actually sound that different. Its the midrange where its at I think.

Edit: I have da the 800's for little over a year now.

[akhter]

is the 800 midrange head same as the 802 one or is the 802 one a bit smaller?

[Freddie40]

The 802DI and the 800DI have the same midrange and tweeter. Because the 800DI has bigger woofers the midrange integrates better with the total sound of the speaker. I have never listened to the 800DI, but really love my 802DIs

Dave

[Rod#S]

I had the 802s for 4 months before upgradingto 800's. Both the new model.

Why? Well, two reasons. First, I thought that the 802s lacked bass. So after a month I ordered 800s instead. They took 3 months to deliver. However, it turned out that the problem was not so much lack of bass, but that they simply hadn't broken in yet. When the 800s finally arrived, the 802s sounded spetacular.

The other reason i upgraded was because of the midrange. The 800's midrange is fantastic. 802s are good, but they get killed by the 800's. Upper range I think is about the same, and lower range doesn't actually sound that different. Its the midrange where its at I think.

Edit: I have da the 800's for little over a year now.

Thanks for commenting on your experience with both speakers. This is very good information :T

[Rod#S]

Hey Skyblue, I have a few questions for you if you don't mind.

When you got your 800's did you keep the same gear i.e. amps, ssp and cables?

When listening, did the 800 project more sound into the room with more authority giving the impression you were indeed listening to a larger speaker or was there little difference in that regard between it and the 802? Given that you said the top range sounded about the same as the 802's and the low range was actually very similar in performance to the 802's as well even with the 2 larger speakers and I must admit that surprises me what is it you find so much better with the midrange? Could you describe what you hear a bit more and what the 800 brought out more in what you were listening too? Feel free to describe particular songs or sections of songs to put things in context as I know it's often really hard to articulate into words what we hear.

Thanks

[Antus]

although 800Diamond and 802Diamond has identital mid range driver and housing. they use different crossover parts which produce slightly different sound. (800Diamond is more refined, 802Diamond is more edgy)

It is my opinion that if you are listening to pure 2 channel music, go for 800Diamond. If it's in a home theater setup, 802Diamond with 2 sub (DB1) will sounds better.

[Rod#S]

although 800Diamond and 802Diamond has identital mid range driver and housing. they use different crossover parts which produce slightly different sound. (800Diamond is more refined, 802Diamond is more edgy)

It is my opinion that if you are listening to pure 2 channel music, go for 800Diamond. If it's in a home theater setup, 802Diamond with 2 sub (DB1) will sounds better.

What about if the speakers are doing double duty, then which would you recommend? :B

[Rod#S]

Something I was thinking about, we know the crossovers are different between the two speakers but could it be the differences people hear in the mid range are more a result of the integration of low mid/high bass range with 10" speakers as opposed to 8" speakers than the different and better crossover? So are the audible improvements of the 800's if we look at things from a frequency perspective more in and around the 350Hz range than say the 4000k range? I just don't ever see people talking about any improvements in higher frequencies.

Seeing as the two speakers use the same high frequency and mid range enclosure and speakers, even with the better crossovers does it not stand to reason that for those frequences that fall outside the crossover ranges should there be no discernable audible differences between the two speakers or am I missing something key with that statement as I don't know much about how crossovers impact the over all sound produced across the entire frequency range.

[akhter]

I suspect there is a lot more to crossover design than is obvious.

When I was at the B&W showroom I had the dealer swap the 803D2 and the 802D2 and to keep the volumes constant he had to lower the volume by 4db (Classe CP800+CA2300). In theory this shouldn't have to happen as bass driver surface area for the 3 803 driver should be close to 802 and same midrange and tweeter. however, because of improved crossover and larger cabinet enclosure results in 4db efficiency.

I recall reading that you need to double amp power for every 3db gain in volume so it makes the 802D 2x as efficient as 802.

My knowledge of these things is based on reading bits and pieces of info over the web so happily waiting to be smacked down and corrected!

[Skyblue]

Hey Skyblue, I have a few questions for you if you don't mind.

Not at all. I am sorry I missed this post. Now I saw it.

When you got your 800's did you keep the same gear i.e. amps, ssp and cables?

The gear was the same, but there was tweaking along the way that made a difference.

When listening, did the 800 project more sound into the room with more authority giving the impression you were indeed listening to a larger speaker or was there little difference in that regard between it and the 802? Given that you said the top range sounded about the same as the 802's and the low range was actually very similar in performance to the 802's as well even with the 2 larger speakers and I must admit that surprises me what is it you find so much better with the midrange? Could you describe what you hear a bit more and what the 800 brought out more in what you were listening too? Feel free to describe particular songs or sections of songs to put things in context as I know it's often really hard to articulate into words what we hear.

Thanks

Well, first of all, I am not an audio oracle. I don't have all that much experience with critical listening to many kinds of speakers, but here goes..

First of all, they are both very good speakers. I have never heard them side by side actually, but have had both as mentioned. Both speakers have songs where they excel.

The 800s midrange is fantastic, resulting in endless resolution when it comes to human voices and choirs. For instance, the choir at the end of I'm every woman by Whitney Houston, sounds quite amazing. As does the choir on Michael Jacksons scream. It was this midrange that convinced me to upgrade. Also, I thought the 802s missed something. This something, turned out to be burn in. At the time I had to part with them, they sounded fantastic, much better than the brand new 800's that replaced them.

The 802s are a different breed. I think they have the bass bump, making the bass stand out a bit. This makes ordinary pop sounds good. That being said, at audition at the store, I heard Paul Simon's Audio Hermanos, from Songs from the Capeman, and literally brought tears to my eyes. Even the salesman was shaken, what the hell just happened? Most amazing, and incidentially one of my favourite albums. This was with Cam2100 amps and some Classe pre I can't remember.

As for size, yes, the 800's has more authority. They sound fuller and more real. Its not night and day, but its there. My limited experience has let me to believe that speaker size matters a lot to the size of the sound.

Incidentially, I started driving the 802's with a 100watt integrated, and that sounded great after burn-in. It was a really musical combination, somewhat more musical than my current icepower amps. So, I one should take note to pair the speakers with some good gear, amps, preamps, source, cables. Both speakers will play what you give them, and both speakers are capable of delivering much more than I currently get out of them. My amp upgrade just keep getting postponed.

In any case, you can't really go wrong. I think that the 802's are for home use, while the 800's really are for the studios and the perfectionists. It does sound more clean, but requires a lot more work to get really good.

My problem is, that once I heard better, I have a hard time going back. So, now I rarely go and listen to any other system. Last system I heard was a mcintosh/dynaudio system worth $15.000 and my short impression was: Sweet lord jebus, thank you that I don't have that system! But to each their own. Some people don't like B&W either.

Edit: I suppose I upgraded my source along the way, as I upgraded my software player to Jplay. Also, the 800s require a better beefier amp that the 802s.

[Rod#S]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to describe your experiences in detail. This helps a lot to allow me to get my head around the differences.

[Rod#S]

I thought I would update the thread I started last year. After a lot of mental debate and number crunching over the past few months all the while continuing to put money aside for whatever speaker I end up going with I am going to add the 800's. The order should be placed mid April so just a few short weeks away. As with my 802's the dealer will be delivering and setting them up for me which is great due to their size and weight. Definitely looking forward to finally completing the array of all B&W's for the 5 main speakers. In a way it will be sad to see the last of my Paradigm main speakers get boxed up as they have served me well for so many years, since 2002 in fact in case of these Studio 100's. Paradigm is still performing the sub duty though in which case one of my Servo 15's was purchased as part of the same system as my 100's in 2002.

[PewterTA]

Congrats!!!! I think you'll absolutely LOVE them. Only thing better is the Nautilus... and they are...but it's also alot of extra money for amplification for those as well. lol.

You will have no regrets, I went with the 802Dis (could not hear the 800Dis anywhere) and for the price difference I decided that the 802Dis were good enough and to put the money towards better gear (all top Rotel gear at the moment). So even with my setup there's no regrets here at all.

When you get them, let us know and throw up the pictures!!!!

[Rod#S]

Thanks, I'm getting more and more excited as the days go by

I'll be sure to post some pics.

Once they arrive I'll have a year or so to plan the next upgrade :B hmmm.... in case B&W upgrade the line, surround back speakers which will have to remain boxed until I can get back to a 7.1 setup or more powerful amps for driving the 800's in the 5.1 setup. That would most likely mean selling my two Bryston 4B-SST's which I'm using to bi-amp my mains and moving to a pair of 7B-SST² amps. 28B's would be awesome but 20k for amps is way more than I can stomach

[PewterTA]

I feel your pain I want two Classe CA-M600s..... hee hee.... then worry about the center & surrounds. lol

[Rod#S]

Congrats!!!! I think you'll absolutely LOVE them. Only thing better is the Nautilus... and they are...but it's also alot of extra money for amplification for those as well. lol.

Just curious, have you actually heard the Nautilus speakers? I know those speakers are B&W's most expensive speakers by a long shot but I have to wonder, since they were designed what is a life time ago now as far as audio equipment goes with little or no evidence to suggest they have been changed/updated since introduction, at least nothing that I recall reading in recent memory I would think there would be a point where the 800 series would finally surpass them because the line is updated every few years. That wouldn't really diminish the Nautilus because it would remain a statement piece in cosmetics alone and still produce great sound. I can't imagine B&W sell more than a handful a year just due to the design, it's not exactly something appealing for the home.
If you did hear them what were the amps driving them?

[Briz vegas]

Of course they have been upgraded. Just not by B&W. I refer to the drivers particularly. The concept of active speakers is a harder sell these days so the new "nautilus" is not active....... And it looks like a smerf.

I think B&W are kind of stuck with the nautilus. A lot of the technology has not changed much, although the concept has been taken to he next level in many respects.

I have not heard the nautilus, I have however heard the Giya G3 and the previous big 800s. Don't ask me what I thought, while all three could sound nice I am biased about which sounded best despite a sub optimal setup.

[PewterTA]

Apparently you missed this.... Yes I was just listening to them for about 3 to 4 hours.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?40688-A-place-to-keep-up-with-Audio-Video-Interior-news&p=572953

To be honest... the 800s don't really come close to the Nautilus.... It's a whole different experience... The sound is still B&W...but that's about where it ends.

The one place the 800 series might slightly grasp is the diamond tweeter... It's micro details are slightly better. However, the Nautilus had everything else there... in the top end.

The bottom end was probably the tightest and most powerful bass I've ever witnessed without any distortion. And the speakers were perfectly neutral. Not one thing came across as overpowering anything else in the range.

The one place the Nautilus are better is sound stage... I literally heard things 50ft behind where the speakers were and about 30 feet to either side of the speakers... the sound stage is to a level I've never heard on anything before. And it was pinpoint accurate, it wasn't even a guess as to where a cello was sitting, I could pinpoint it and 3 others pointed at the same exact spot.

B&W has only replaced one connector in the speaker in 20 years. Everything is made IDENTICAL to the way it was. One of the engineers that actually works on it says they do try different drivers or crossover settings, but they won't change anything unless it makes a huge improvement on it... which to date, they have not. This brought me to my question of the diamond tweeter. He stated that is one place they are looking....but they don't think they will change it due to the fact that they can't quantify much of a difference. After hearing the speaker... I agree... there's not much difference...and in all honesty... I did not miss any of the micro details and actually enjoyed the speaker more as I just sat and listened.

With my setup... I find I'm real critical of hearing everything. With the Nautilus I found myself not caring one bit as there was so much "more" going on that I just enjoyed the MUSIC and did not even care if/what I was missing. They just take a hold of you with being so energetic and full of life... you just end up wanting to enjoy the ride and everything else disappears.

Honestly... if I could've figured out a way to afford them (which I probably could've squeezed it out... maybe.) I would've hands down taken them and not looked back. They are that much better. The real problem is the roughly equal to or better cost of the amplification to really drive them properly.... you end up doubling the cost. I'd say you'd put down 90K just to get them sounding good.... and closer to 120 - 130K for proper amplification.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE LOVE LOVE my 802Dis and would've trade them... except for Nautilus. Course I've never heard FoCAL Grand Utopias or Wilson Alexandria XLFs either... maybe I'd like them even more... but that's also a HECK of a jump (over Nautilus).

Basically I have no issue with Bowers & Wilkins claim on, "The Perfect Loudspeaker."

[Rod#S]

Thanks for your insight into the Nautilus. It's rare to find people who have actually heard them. Good stuff :T

[Skyblue]

Nice review PewterTA. The difference between the Nautilus and the 800s are that 800di or your 802dis. Because there is a difference between those as well..

Also, do you remember what powered the Nautilus?

[Rod#S]

As a comparison to the B&W sound I got a chance to listen to a pair of Focal Alto Utopia's yesterday. Very nice speakers and quite a large speaker too. I would give the upper frequency advantage to my 802's, I found the tweeter of the Alto's a bit to soft and thought it lacked the amazing clarity of the 802's. For the mids it's close, both speakers are different, the 802's have great definition, very solid whereas the Alto's were silky smooth. For the bass the Alto's definitely beat the 802's. Even though it only has a single 11" driver vs twin 8" drivers of the 802's which give more surface area the bass in the Alto's gave more of a sense of approaching a subwoofer than the 802's do. Both speakers deliver very solid and focused bass but I felt the Alto's were going deeper.

The Alto's were in a well treated room fed with some top end Sim Audio gear and Siltech cables. The comparison to the 802's was based solely on my familiarity having owned them now for 2 years but there was not a pair of 802's in the room for direct comparison.

So price wise the Alto's are more of a direct competitor to the 800's so it'll be interesting if my feelings change any once I get my 800's. But on performance alone the 10k price difference between them and the 802's doesn't yield huge performance differences. I guess once you get to a certain point the differences become much more subtle and then it's more of how each speaker moves you with the nuances that makes you prefer one over the other. Of course there are always going to be speakers with very different sound reproduction philosophies and in those cases differences would be much more obvious I suspect.

[PewterTA]

I was comparing them to 802Dis, one because I've had them for about 8 months now listening almost everyday and two didn't have the 800Dis there to judge them against. I've only heard the 800Dis once and it was really quick...so I don't think I could justify any differences between Nautilus and 800Dis. I was more suggesting the 800 series "sound" they produce which is very similar across the whole range in most reguards, but I do know that the 800Dis are better than the 802Dis especially in the mid to lower mids and bass. From what I remember and what others have said, the upper ranges are very very similar.

The amplification was 4 CA-2300s (2ch x 300w), so each driver got one channel of an amp at 300w. They were going to do the CA-M600 monoblocks but realized that they didn't have the 34AMPs min. to drive all 8 of the CA-M600s in the room they were set up in... so they backed off with what they could get in time. There was no complaints... the CA-2300s did very well. But I would've loved to have had the power to match the speakers!

Nice review on the Focal Altos. My friend wants to hear the Grande Utopias because now since he's heard the Nautilus he wants to know where the price difference is.... and how it could possibly be any better. So we're now searching for a place to hear them. lol

[leo2498]

I was comparing them to 802Dis, one because I've had them for about 8 months now listening almost everyday and two didn't have the 800Dis there to judge them against. I've only heard the 800Dis once and it was really quick...so I don't think I could justify any differences between Nautilus and 800Dis. I was more suggesting the 800 series "sound" they produce which is very similar across the whole range in most reguards, but I do know that the 800Dis are better than the 802Dis especially in the mid to lower mids and bass. From what I remember and what others have said, the upper ranges are very very similar.

The amplification was 4 CA-2300s (2ch x 300w), so each driver got one channel of an amp at 300w. They were going to do the CA-M600 monoblocks but realized that they didn't have the 34AMPs min. to drive all 8 of the CA-M600s in the room they were set up in... so they backed off with what they could get in time. There was no complaints... the CA-2300s did very well. But I would've loved to have had the power to match the speakers!

Nice review on the Focal Altos. My friend wants to hear the Grande Utopias because now since he's heard the Nautilus he wants to know where the price difference is.... and how it could possibly be any better. So we're now searching for a place to hear them. lol

I wondering if this improvement is not fault of the xover in the nautilus, if you are amplificate this one with different amps for each drivers maybe you have a xover for each driver :roll: I'm wrong with this statement?

BTW PewterTA you could know how much amps min I will need for a CA2300 or CA5300?

[PewterTA]

The Nautilus comes with 2 Active crossovers. From the Preamp the signal goes into the Crossovers. From the crossovers, they plug into each individual amp and then the output from each amp then gets connected to the fan-out cable that comes from the Nautilus. Nautilus, you can't use your own cable with out modifying the speaker as the cables run directly to the backs of the drivers. It's basically an ambilical cord from the bottom of the Nautilus through the granite base and out to the amps. So with the active crossover, each driver only gets the perfect range that it's capable of producing...so there's no overworking one driver to compensate for another's weakness.

For either of the two amps a 15amp circuit is all you need. If you are going to have two...then you need a 20amp circuit.... though a 20 amp circuit is not a bad idea in general.

[leo2498]

The Nautilus comes with 2 Active crossovers. From the Preamp the signal goes into the Crossovers. From the crossovers, they plug into each individual amp and then the output from each amp then gets connected to the fan-out cable that comes from the Nautilus. Nautilus, you can't use your own cable with out modifying the speaker as the cables run directly to the backs of the drivers. It's basically an ambilical cord from the bottom of the Nautilus through the granite base and out to the amps. So with the active crossover, each driver only gets the perfect range that it's capable of producing...so there's no overworking one driver to compensate for another's weakness.

For either of the two amps a 15amp circuit is all you need. If you are going to have two...then you need a 20amp circuit.... though a 20 amp circuit is not a bad idea in general.

ohh thanks a lot for the correction, I have a silly question about the current circuit all the normal circuit in regular houses are 15Amp normally? or it is a special circuit?

[Freddie40]

ohh thanks a lot for the correction, I have a silly question about the current circuit all the normal circuit in regular houses are 15Amp normally? or it is a special circuit?

This all really depends on what amps you will need. Some require a 15amp circuit, some a 20 amp. And yes, I feel you would be better off with a dedicated circuit per amp, and if you are going to do a dedicated circuit do a 20amp.

Pushing my Bryston 4BSST2 all of the way can use up most of a 15amp circuit. Having 2 on a circuit would limit power at high loads. Not the worst, but if you were to have Nautilus speakers I am sure you could pop for individual circuits.

Most normal circuits in a house are 15, but you should check yours out to make sure.

Dave

[Rod#S]

The speakers arrived at my dealers. I was over to do the paper work and such and checked out the boxes. Quite big, we had to measure to see if they would actually fit through my door. Just barely it seems with only a couple inches to spare and only with the top cap removed I'll take delivery on Thursday. The boxes must be quite a bit bigger than the 802 boxes were because I don't remember any worries about whether those would fit through my door.

[PewterTA]

Ha ha, excellent Rod!!!!!!!

Make sure to take pictures so we can see the unboxing and setup! Definitely some pictures when they are set up in place!

[Rod#S]

Here is a blurb I posted over at AVS, I'm copying and pasting I was too tired last night to post in the different forums

Well I got'em and they are hooked up. It was a crazy, hectic. insanely busy day at work so impressions will have to wait. Just being pulled in too many directions today with dealing with having the speakers delivered, then trying to remove all of the packing material then having to deal with work then recalibrating the system which I f'ed up and will have to do again tomorrow evening. I forgot to drop my stereo sub crossover down to 40Hz where I set the 800's so it was still set at 50Hz. I watched the Hobbit and noticed some really boomy bass from the 800's and subs which led me to go into the menus and found the mistake. I was essentially duplicating bass between 50Hz and 40Hz between the subs and 800's, never a good thing. Once changed things meshed seamlessly but I'll need to recalibrate to dial it in just right. I also forgot to take the mesh grill off my center during the calibration so that'll have to be remedied tomorrow. Not sure if the grills make any difference but since most of my critical listening is done with the grills off and the speakers looking their best I may as well get it right

Size wise it's interesting depending on how you look at them, depending on the angle they either look a lot larger than the 802's or just a bit larger. there is no getting past the base though, that thing is freakin' huge, I wasn't really prepared for that. The finish on them seems a bit more glossy then my 802's.

A question, so what's the deal with the turning of the marlan head screw? There is absolutely no mention of that in the manual but I could have sworn the dealer adjusted it with my 802's but neither of us could remember for certain. I'm not talking about the small Phillips screw through a cap into the back opening of the marlan head which says remove before use I'm talking about the large flat head that makes up the end of the marlan head.

I took some initial pictures but too tired to get them off the camera and uploaded tonight.

I will say this, the soundstage watching the Hobbit was epic, perfectly seamless, I have never had my system blend so well that it was hard to determine where the left/right main sounds transitioned to the surrounds. Boy am I glad for having the 802's as surrounds as I'm sure they are the reason for this. With Paradigm in the surrounds there was apparently a noticeable timbre and performance difference that I obviously wasn't aware of. Even when I had the all Paradigm system my surrounds consisted of ADP's and my rears Studio 60's so the difference in transitions was always noticeable, not huge but discernible probably because the 60's were a lot more capable speaker then the small ADP's.

[Rod#S]

The speakers arrived and are installed. I added a few shots in the pictures thread

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?10838-Pictures-of-your-B-amp-W-Set-up&p=574580#post574580

[Antioch]

Rod,
Those are gorgeous.

Good Listening,
Mike

[wettou]

Hello;

Like the thread title asks I'm looking to see if anyone has owned the 802 Diamond and then later moved up to the 800 Diamond? I'm not talking about the previous models, the 'D' i.e. upgrading from a 802D to a 800D or even moving from a 802D to the 800 Diamond. The consensus seems to be that the new Diamonds series are a step up from the original so that's why I'm only looking for such specific speaker to speaker move comments as I'm scared if comments are based on moving between series it's more like comparing apples and oranges.

I would like to hear why you made the move and what it was that the 800 had or perhaps had more of than the 802 with the execption of the obvious, the larger bass drivers capable of delivering a bit more low end How long you had the 802 Diamond and how long you had the 800 Diamond would help as it gives me an idea how familiar you were/are with each model.

Thanks

I upgrade from 802D1 to 800Diamond and am very happy, I owned the 802D1 for five years and the 800Diamond for less than a year it was a transformation. Especially three 800Diamond in the front I have achieved a sound I will enjoy for a very long time, if it is any indication I have a pair of DM603 that I have owned for over 17 years!

[Rod#S]

Rod,
Those are gorgeous.

Good Listening,
Mike

Thanks

[PewterTA]

I'll repeat myself in this thread as well...

That is pure porn. No way around that. LOL

LOVE IT!!!

[Rod#S]

It seems I have been neglecting this forum and thread as of late. I had posted more impressions on the other site so I'll post them here as well for anyone who is interested that doesn't frequent the other sites. These comments were posted over the course of the first weekend I had with the speakers almost two weeks ago up until this evening so it will seem as though all comments are from the past day or so but they are not. I pasted them in chronologically though so you can see how my impressions progressed over time.

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I finally had some real quality time with the 800's today and I am very impressed. These things have some serious, serious bass capabilities when running full range and it's no wonder owners report not needing a subwoofer if using in a non home theater environment. I know 802 owners even run stereo without a sub and I can attest to them having very solid and tight bass but the 800's are definitely a step up. I know what the specs say and the 800's and 802's have ridiculously close numbers on paper but this is a phenomenon where you need to use your ears and forget about the specs because depending on the song you could easily be fooled into thinking a sub, or stereo subs were in the system. My 800's are in the exact same position that my 802's were and there is no mistaking the difference.

Moving onto the mids I find them to be very smooth, warm and fluid. they obviously posses the accuracy of the 802's but deliver it with a warmer presentation. I had reported after listening to the Focal Alto Utopia a few weeks back how warm and fluid the mids were compared to the 802's, the 800's are giving what I heard from the Alto's.

I'm practically equally as impressed with the surround experience the 800's and 802's give. As reported earlier the soundstage and sense of integration is just amazing. This obviously could have been achieved by buying another pair of 802's, no doubt about it so with me having had no intention of selling the 802's anyways it's a win win in the end.

So what about the HTM2 It still holds it's own in the setup especially when the center is strictly dialog but with the 800's and 802's working in harmony with music it does stand out more then it did when my surrounds were Paradigm Studio 100's probably because the HTM2 is a better speaker in the mids and highs with the low end advantage going to the 100's.

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So I got to sit down for a soild 45 minutes with my 800's last night. I listened to the new Joe Satriani album in 2 channel analog bypass. The soundstage from the 800's over the 802's is just immense, I mean the sound is everywhere. A typical saying for a good speaker is that it pulls you into the performance but this is different you are not pulled in you so much as you are enveloped by it. It was uncanny by times because I know if I was blind folded and couldn't see the display of my SSP to see what mode was selected, if I was asked which speaker(s) is the sound coming from I could easily be fooled into thinking all speakers were at work because there were times in the songs where I could have sworn the surround 802 speakers were outputting sound. The 802's never pushed the music so far into the room, they retained a separation of the front listening environment from going into the back of the room giving the impression that if you wanted complete immersion the surround speakers would need to be engaged via Logic 7, etc. to be completely enveloped by the music.

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I just had another solid hour and a half listening session. I decided to see how the 800's perform with female voices this time. I let my CD player do the work this time so no analog bypass but I was listening in stereo again. I'm still listening to rock albums for the time being, the two I chose were Evanescence's most recent album and Lacuna Coil's Shallow Life disc 2. I find both Amy Lee and Cristina Scabbia to have very powerful voices with Amy's having a very haunting nature to it by times.

So again simply incredible projection of sound. The music is just so balanced from top to bottom, incredibly smooth through the mids with powerful tight bass. The acoustic tracks on the Lacuna Coil disc were surreal, the 802's blew me away when it came to letting me feel like the performers were playing in my room but the 800's step it up a notch, no doubt about it.

[mjb]

Good write up, thanks Rod. This is an upgrade I dream about, I'll keep buying those lottery tickets!

[leo2498]

Good write up, thanks Rod. This is an upgrade I dream about, I'll keep buying those lottery tickets!

JAJAJAJA Good one, I need to start buying lottery too.

[Skyblue]

Excellent writeup!

I personally don't think I get enough bass from my 800s but I'm beginning to suspect its the amps that dont have the punch.. )

[Rod#S]

It's possible but with 600 watts, if your signature is still accurate I would think that's more than enough so the room may be a big factor as well. You could try other 600 watt amps and see if that makes a different, Bryston 7B-SST squared, Classe M600's and McIntosh 601's all come to mind. I'm only using 330 watts.

[SoundEngine355]

The previous 800 series the 800D and 802D used same tweeter and midrange with the SAME crossover. Not sure on the new models, but my guess is they are exactly the same including quality of crossover parts/cables. The only difference is more bass.


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[Rod#S]

The previous 800 series the 800D and 802D used same tweeter and midrange with the SAME crossover. Not sure on the new models, but my guess is they are exactly the same including quality of crossover parts/cables. The only difference is more bass.


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There are different crossovers in the 800's now compared to the 802's. Also don't forget that part of the midrange frequencies are being handled by 10" drivers so there is that to consider as well

[SoundEngine355]

Anyone upgraded from the 802Di to 800Di?

Interesting, I am still not convinced they are different since previous generations have been the same and people were saying back then oh the 800d high and mids sound so much better than the 802d, which in fact there was no difference at all.

How do you know they are not the same? The guy at the hifi store is not going to know. Have you checked the crossover?



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[SoundEngine355]

Look at the info sheets for the 800di and 802di they are the same crossover points, 350Hz, 4kHz.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Downloads/Product/InfoSheet/ENG_FP29491_800-Diamond_info_sheet.pdf

http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Downloads/Product/InfoSheet/ENG_FP29505_802-Diamond_info_sheet.pdf

Chances are they are exactly the same parts and crossover as per the previous models.







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[Rod#S]

Interesting, I am still not convinced they are different since previous generations have been the same and people were saying back then oh the 800d high and mids sound so much better than the 802d, which in fact there was no difference at all.

How do you know they are not the same? The guy at the hifi store is not going to know. Have you checked the crossover?



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Look at the info sheets for the 800di and 802di they are the same crossover points, 350Hz, 4kHz.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Downloads/Product/InfoSheet/ENG_FP29491_800-Diamond_info_sheet.pdf

http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Downloads/Product/InfoSheet/ENG_FP29505_802-Diamond_info_sheet.pdf

Chances are they are exactly the same parts and crossover as per the previous models.







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Straight from the B&W parts list. You will be looking for the D2 parts.

http://www.bwgroupsupport.com/parts/partslist-bw

It's true the crossover points are the same, they are in fact the same on the other speakers as well but the components are different.

When I was referring to the potential for different audible properties of the mid range between the 10" and 8" drivers I'm referring to what we typically label the lower midrange register for instruments and voices. These lower values would actually fall into the upper frequencies handled by the bass drivers rather than the mid drivers which are obviously the same. So there is that plus the potential differences the larger cabinet has on the frequencies in it's range.