Realistic McIntosh setup for 802Di and 805Di

[mrciave]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, congrats, lots of competent people and enthusiasm as well!

I'm going for the big jump, moving from a entry-level system to a high-end one (skipping the intermediate steps, which in the end are more expensive than going straight for it).

From my experience, a smaller speaker with proper gear behind is much better than a bigger speaker with a "my budget is not enough" gear behind. To make the story simple, I love B&Ws, I love McIntosh, so I'd like to get your opinion on what is:
- the minimum Mac amplifier for 802 and 805
- what will run them correctly
- what will do marvels with them

Sure there are thousands of brands out there that could do better/worse, but I really want a blue light in my living room:-)

I have the feeling that yes, you can run the big 802 with "smaller" amplifiers, but I hate when instruments get mixed, the grand drum in an orchestra just does not come out because there's no current available anymore, and so on... So I'd rather go for sound stage and clarity at their best.

A few other questions:
- Mac amplifiers are very respected, but how about the sources (CD/SACD)? Worth them or better to go for other brands?
- my room is 5x5m, 2.6m height, wood floor. Somebody says too small for an 802, or just minimum?
- in case of 805Di, what sub-woofer to keep a correct sound but add bass?

Of course this is a start point, there are the 803 and 804 if 802 is too much, and I will go for a few auditions to make up my mind. But I'm trying to get an idea first, to avoid loss of time for me and the dealer.

Andrea

[KahunaCanuck]

Hi Andrea,

Welcome to the site!

I have some experience with McIntosh and B & W, and can say they work well together, while I am sure others will chime in who have more experience.

The McIntosh MCD500 has gotten rave reviews, plays both CDs & SACDs and can be used as a preamp to start out with.

As for amps for the 802Ds, I think the MC352 is a good starting point, I have the MC501s running my 800Ds and love the sound.

The 805Ds will run with the MC252 better, but look for a top notch sub like the JLs, RELs, or possibly 2 BMW PV1s.

The size of your room will have some affect here as well, the 802s will fill a larger room better than the 805s.

Best of luck and enjoy whatever you end up with!
:T

[Antonkk]

Recent McIntosh CD/SACD players (301 or 500) are GREAT!

[htsteve]

Andrea,

First of all, welcome to the forum! You will finds lots of good people and information here.

I have the following system: 802D's, HTM2D, 804S's, JL Audio F112 as sub, powered by McIntosh MX-120 preamp, MC402 and MC205.

They are in an 11 X 16 x 8 foot dedicated HT room. So fairly close in size to your room. My room initially had minimal acoustic treatments (besides carpeting, first point reflections on the side walls for the 802D's). Now my room is fully treated. With the hope for performance improvement. So 802Di's are not too 'big' for your room. Since your room is a square, you can definitely consider some acoustinc treatments.

You mention wood floors. I would definitely consider getting a large enough rug to put in front of the front speakers. That will definitely tame the ringing sound in the room.

I also initially ran the system on the MC205. This was a very nice combo. Certainly the best I had ever heard. So for the minimum amp in the Mac lineup for your system, I would say it is the MC205.

About as year ago, I added the MC252 to drive the 802D's. And drive them it did. Improved soundstage (depth as well as width), bass depth, smoothness.

This year, I had an opportunity to replace the MC252 with the MC402. And what an amp that is. I took everything good about the MC252 and did it even better. Astounding depth of sound. Very quiet. Decidedly improved bass control. I am one who uses a sub in 2 channel mode. With the MC402, this is the first time, with some material, that I can run the 802D's pure, with no sub. The bass output and overall refinement on with the 402 is truly impressive.

I've had several people tell me that the MC402 was the perfect solution for my system and room. I find it hard to disagree with that now that I have an MC402.

I would say that for the 802Di's, the MC252 will run them properly. The MC402 would do wonders for them. The only other option might be the MC501 monoblock's. They offer a bit more refinement, a bit more wattage, but not anymore current than the MC402. Anything above the MC501 is probably overkill in a room that size.

As for the 805Di, any of these amps mentioned will work fine with that. The MC252 might be the sweet spot for those speakers. Will the MC402 work wonderfully? Certainly, but one of the main areas of excellence of the 402, bass control, would be seriously underused on the 805Di. I would look to spend the difference in money elsewhere, like a reference sub.

As mention above, I have the JL Audio F112 (It replaced a Velodyne DD18 ). It is an amazing sub. Very musical (I've heard bass subtleties I've never heard before). HT output is very impressive and visceral. I matches up very nicely with my 802D's and the rest of the system. I have no doubt it would be very good with any of the speakers you are considering.

I do not own any Mac source pieces, but have heard them. They are as impressive as the main electronics.

You are doing the best thing to do, which is to go demo these pieces. Bring material you are very familiar with. Even better, if the dealer allows home demos, then take advangae of that.

I know you mentioned the 803 and 804's. Very good speakers. Excellent performace. But they are not 802's. The 802 and up speakers are truly special. Especially when driven properly. You have a very good plan. Enjoy the process and the outcome.


Hope this helps.

[mrciave]

Hi,

thanks for the warm welcome!

So far, it looks like:
- 200-250W/ch for the 805
- 350-400W/ch for the 802

I seem to read between the lines that it's better to go down the route of mcd500 driving directly the final amp, rather than going for an integrated. So, when money is available, the next upgrade is a proper pre.

So, for the 805 it would be better go for a mcd500 + mc252, rather than mcd500 + ma7000. Less money, and then add a pre in the future?

For 802, as we talk 300+W, there's no option for an integrated.

I'm trying to arrange a demo in a shop, but I'm waiting for them to have the right stuff in-house and set it up properly. Cannot wait

Bye,

Andrea

[jericho]

Best match for 802D is the MC-501
I use the 501 on my 802D's and the 1201 on the 800D's, perfect match
I also have the 252 for the 805's(not 805d!!!)

[Antonkk]

Hi,

thanks for the warm welcome!

So far, it looks like:
- 200-250W/ch for the 805
- 350-400W/ch for the 802

I seem to read between the lines that it's better to go down the route of mcd500 driving directly the final amp, rather than going for an integrated. So, when money is available, the next upgrade is a proper pre.

So, for the 805 it would be better go for a mcd500 + mc252, rather than mcd500 + ma7000. Less money, and then add a pre in the future?

For 802, as we talk 300+W, there's no option for an integrated.

I'm trying to arrange a demo in a shop, but I'm waiting for them to have the right stuff in-house and set it up properly. Cannot wait

Bye,

Andrea

There is a reason preamps exist and cost money. I tried running 301 to 402 without a pre and it sounded like ABSOLUTE GARBAGE - harsh, thin etc. Adding a 46 preamp changed everything - the soundstage, bass, air etc. Night and day. I'd say that preamp is ESSENTIAL with separates. MCD500 with 7000 will sound MUCH BETTER than MCD500 straight to 252.

[SoundEngine355]

There is a reason preamps exist and cost money. I tried running 301 to 402 without a pre and it sounded like ABSOLUTE GARBAGE - harsh, thin etc. Adding a 46 preamp changed everything - the soundstage, bass, air etc. Night and day. I'd say that preamp is ESSENTIAL with separates. MCD500 with 7000 will sound MUCH BETTER than MCD500 straight to 252.

I disagree, I've heard the MCD500 direct to MC501's powering 802D's was fantastic! and I used to own a Classe CDP202 direct to M400's driving a pair of 800D's too was excellent, no PRE required.

I would go for MCD500 with MC252 or better forget the PRE, only required if you need more "gain".

I listen to music 75-85db, the Classe CDP202 went upto 100db.

[SoundEngine355]

Hi,

thanks for the warm welcome!

So far, it looks like:
- 200-250W/ch for the 805
- 350-400W/ch for the 802

I seem to read between the lines that it's better to go down the route of mcd500 driving directly the final amp, rather than going for an integrated. So, when money is available, the next upgrade is a proper pre.

So, for the 805 it would be better go for a mcd500 + mc252, rather than mcd500 + ma7000. Less money, and then add a pre in the future?

For 802, as we talk 300+W, there's no option for an integrated.

I'm trying to arrange a demo in a shop, but I'm waiting for them to have the right stuff in-house and set it up properly. Cannot wait

Bye,

Andrea

802D's don't require 300W+, B&W own demo system runs them on a Classe CA2200!!

[wettou]

802D's don't require 300W+, B&W own demo system runs them on a Classe CA2200!!

Where did you see them demoing the 802D with CA2200?

[mrciave]

Well, about the pre dispute, I guess that comparing MCD500 + MC252 vs MA7000 (probably on the 805) will easily tell the story... But for sure going for an integrated is blocking the way to upgrades in the future.

On bigger systems, where integrated is not an option, I see it more as a matter of money: buy the CD and the final amp, and when you have the money stick the pre in the middle:-)

[mrciave]

I'm going to get my first listening session with 802D tomorrow, cannot wait. They are actually the 802D, not latest diamond, but they are "shop new", meaning they played around 20hrs in the shop.

The guy sells them for 8.000eur from a list price of 12.500eur (yes, prices in Italy are CRAZY!!!). But I figure that if I like them, for this price it's worth buying the speakers. Apparently from all reviews the step from 802D to 802Di is not a big one (sure the lower models like 805 had a huge improvement), so get the old ones for this kind of price should be a kind of "bargain".

Not sure about the front end for tomorrow, the shop is a bit out of stock of Mc gear, but there might be an MA7000.

Will post back tomorrow with comments and pics.

Andrea

[alebonau]

not sure on the 805d but suspect like the 805s it doesnt necessarily need 200-250 wpc. depends on the application I guess but have heard the 805s do a pretty good job with a 40wpc ! amp. Its not really a hard to drive power hungry behemoth of a speaker !

[mjb]

So far, it looks like:
- 200-250W/ch for the 805
- 350-400W/ch for the 802

Andrea, the 805 will work beautifully with 100w, as will the 802, although 200w is probably preferred for the 802.

Please take all this talk of "oooh, you need at least X hundred watts..." with a pinch of salt. European power is much cleaner than US power, and lower rated quality amps can and do perform perfectly well. If you feel you need more oomph (headroom) later, you can always upgrade.

[mrciave]

Well, tomorrow will be 802 with around 200W/ch...

Also, to be honest, power ratings don't mean that much... Otherwise how could we compare a 30W/ch class A with, say, 150W/ch on class AB?

It's clear, one thing is the average need for a speaker, another thing is that ultimate bit of current that you need in 1% of the listening time on some difficult musical pages, but that actually generates that insane grin .

[wettou]

I would love the CT-600M for all my speakers but at $6000 each that would mean an other $42K ouch!!

[mrciave]

A bit off topic, but is the Classe' CT series replacing the Delta? I was told the current Delta is almost out of stock, new series coming end of summer... New Delta or CT?

[Cambs12]

Andrea,

I have just bought 802d(ex-demo pair) after demoeing them and 803d.The 803d is a fabulous speaker,but the 802d is in a different league.The mid-range is much better,and i am hearing things on discs i didn't know were there,it is that good.
The 802d is a more effortless sound,calm and authoritative.
I drive them with a Musical Fidelity Trivista(350 wpc in to 8ohm,600 into 4) and this works extremely well.I don't think you definitely need that much power,but something of reasonable power(say 150wpc and up) will make a difference.I heard them once with a Naim pre/power of 75 wpc,and it was clipping constantly.
I love my amp and how it relates to the 802d,but must admit the more i hear these guys describing their Macintosh gear,it makes me want to look into this brand.Also,the Classe monoblocks are of interest.
My room is 12 wide,by 20 feet.Although i could do with room treatments,which i am looking into,they already sound great in this room.
Had i bought 803(though great) i would always have thought 'what if' i had bought the 802d.

[wettou]

A bit off topic, but is the Classe' CT series replacing the Delta? I was told the current Delta is almost out of stock, new series coming end of summer... New Delta or CT?

From Classé: "CA-3200, CA-2100 and CA-5100, which do not have direct replacements in the new design will continue to be sold". There will be a CA-M600, CA-M300, CA-2300 and CA-5300, each of which will be $500 more than its CT counterpart.

The price delta reflects the approximate cost differential between the CT and CA amp chassis.

Sonically and technically the new amps are an improvement over the old and most people who have compared them consider the improvement substantial." Timing is end of June

Has anyone had a chance to compare the new CT vs Old Delta?

[mrciave]

Just back from the audition of the 802D with a big grin and an empty wallet !

The setup was as follows:
PRIMARE CD31
PRIMARE PRE30
PRIMARE A32
B&W 802D
Audioquest balanced between CD and PRE (he said Jaguar, was a 36V battery)
Audioquest balanced or unbalanced between PRE and AMP
No idea what cable to the speakers (I did not ask, but did not look crazy)

The room:
[IMG]IMG_4517 (3).jpg[/IMG]

The frontend:
[IMG]IMG_4516 (3).jpg[/IMG]

What to say? Even if the frontend was probably not at the same level as the speakers, the listening experience was great. With any kind of music (jazz, rock, pop, metal, classical), the speakers disappeared and it became a matter of listening to music.

So soon the listening session (with my CDs that I know well) transformed into rediscovering my albums, rather than evaluating the speakers. And, as soon as the big pages like Verdi's requiem or a Karajan execution went on, it was like being in the theater (first time I could compare listening to classical with speakers to the real experience)!

To cut a long story short, wallet out and I bought the speakers.

Unfortunately at this moment the shop has no higher level frontends to listen to, and due to the switch of Classe from Delta to the new series, there's no way to source a 2200 to listen to. I also live in an area where hi-fi is not really well covered, so it looks like it might take me a while to find the proper cd/pre/amp for the speakers.

The shop owner suggested a cheap way to start listening to my speakers right now: he has a used Copland CTA 305 and two CTA 520, which he could sell me for a good price and get them back once I move to bigger stuff, for exactly the same money. It's like borrowing them (and he even accepts to put it on paper!!!).

I'll have a listening session next week to compare Copland and Primare, and then will see, but any suggestion from you guys is appreciated!

Anyway, the guy is not really fond of Mc gear (even if he can sell it), says Classe' is way more musical and, being class A until 70W, low level volume listening is much better. Sounds reasonable to whom has a direct Mac/Classe experience?

[mrciave]

Forgot to say that the shop owner is very helpful and nice, relaxed, treated me with respect even before I started talking business, and even if the shop is small (definitely no comparison with the big ones in Milano and what we can see regularly on these forums), he had the whole B&W lineup there.

And, to whom says these speakers are unforgiving with a less than state-of-the-art frontend, I can say that yes, they'll not give their full potential, but wow, still great speakers that accept something smaller driving them.

[MikeFL52]

Anyway, the guy is not really fond of Mc gear (even if he can sell it), says Classe' is way more musical and, being class A until 70W, low level volume listening is much better. Sounds reasonable to whom has a direct Mac/Classe experience?

Congrats on the 802Ds (Ds or Dis)

It always amazes me that shop owners will try and justify why they sell or don't sell a particular brand rather than just saying that they don't carry it.
There are enough B&W and McIntosh owners here on the forum that would say the combination is excellent. There are also an equal number who would say that the Classe's match well. In my opinion you will be happy :B no matter which way you end up going.

[htsteve]

Andrea,

Congratulations. An excellent choice. Enjoy rediscovering your music.

[Birdy]

Forgot to say that the shop owner is very helpful and nice, relaxed, treated me with respect even before I started talking business, and even if the shop is small (definitely no comparison with the big ones in Milano and what we can see regularly on these forums), he had the whole B&W lineup there.

And, to whom says these speakers are unforgiving with a less than state-of-the-art frontend, I can say that yes, they'll not give their full potential, but wow, still great speakers that accept something smaller driving them.

Andrea,

I think I recognize the shop in Busto Arsizio, correct?

I've been there once a few years ago.
Although small made me a very good impression.
Congrats on the acquisition,they will sound great :T

My room is about same size of yours, also with wooden floor. Although square room isn't the best I'm absolutely delighted.
I feed my 802D with full Classé CDP202, CP700 and 2 CA2200.

I moved recently from a larger room but very clear (lots of windows no curtains, pavement no carpets, hole in ceiling) to a smaller rooms (old house, big walls, small windows, lots of furniture, books etc...); it's like I had new speakers! :E

I can't insist enough on good positioning of the speakers and some basic acoustic treatment, nothing fancy, like I said furnitures will do already an amazing job. My experience is that the more the room is warm/cosy to the eyes the better your speakers will sound.
Before my speakers sounded already great but soundstage was ... so so.. :roll: :roll:

Now they sound greater but soundstage has improved a lot, 3D is really good beeing on small jazz quartet or big orchestra. :lol:

Also living in Italy since 8 years I know that Enel's quality can be surprizing, former house I had drops as low as 187V.... U can imagine that it had some disastrous effect. Now voltage is more stable around 225V, wayyyy better. :

Birdy

[mrciave]

It always amazes me that shop owners will try and justify why they sell or don't sell a particular brand rather than just saying that they don't carry it.
There are enough B&W and McIntosh owners here on the forum that would say the combination is excellent. There are also an equal number who would say that the Classe's match well. In my opinion you will be happy :B no matter which way you end up going.

Sure, the guy is pulling in his direction, but there seems to be a high number of people here in Europe thinking that 30% of the price goes in the blue meters. Not that they sound bad, just that the bang for the buck is not really favourable, and so comparing McIntosh with Classe at the same budget level, then you get more from the Classe'.

Anyway the guy was talking a lot about the curve of performance vs budget, and saying that at this moment, especially when I go from an entry level system to a big system, it's not worth to go for real big money immediately.

And I can agree with him, I could have bought the front end I heard yesterday and be happy for quite a while.

[mrciave]

Congrats on the 802Ds (Ds or Dis)

802D, played just 20hrs in the shop... Meaning I got around 40% discount on the list price. After all the talking that the Di is not really a big difference from the D, I went for the deal.

[mrciave]

Andrea,

I think I recognize the shop in Busto Arsizio, correct?

I've been there once a few years ago.
Although small made me a very good impression.

No, it's in Udine, and I'm from the far east :B !

[Birdy]

No, it's in Udine, and I'm from the far east :B !

Me I'm near Varese

[Birdy]

, it's not worth to go for real big money immediately.

And I can agree with him, I could have bought the front end I heard yesterday and be happy for quite a while.

Yes and no, those babies deserve some good electronics behind....
I remember that I tried the Primare when I was looking around for some matching electronics and it sounded really good, of course Classé or MC or any other similar brand are not playing the same game.

Is it worth the extra money? Only you can tell.... 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Speaking about money I think you had really a sweet deal for those 802D. ;x( ;x( ;x(

[mrciave]

Birdy,

sure the speakers deserve proper electronics behind, but I have the big choice to make now:
- bring home the speakers and keep them silent till I try a McIntosh, or Classe', or whatever they deserve
OR
- buy something temporary (like the Primare or Copland) and start enjoying while sourcing the proper electronics with more time.

There's also a third choice, drive them with my Rotel RA-930 BX till it melts :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:

[Orb]

Birdy,

sure the speakers deserve proper electronics behind, but I have the big choice to make now:
- bring home the speakers and keep them silent till I try a McIntosh, or Classe', or whatever they deserve
OR
- buy something temporary (like the Primare or Copland) and start enjoying while sourcing the proper electronics with more time.

There's also a third choice, drive them with my Rotel RA-930 BX till it melts :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:

There is also another new product, the Devialet D-Premier digital amp (also uses a Class A stage), so it is not the same as say the new Nad.
I have to say personally I feel this is one of the best amps out there and is equal to pre/power amps that are 8,000 to 10,000 for each bit.
The other benefit is there is no need for a quality DAC (wether an external box or going for a very expensive CD with a good DAC-filter design).

This integrated has some of the very best measurements ever tested, and I can say it drives difficult speakers comfortably and at low or loud reference volume (tested my lounge 8.5m by 10m).

The difficulty though is that this is a very new product and distributors/dealers are slowly being selected, so getting to hear this may take a little while.
However as you cannot purchase straight away something else then it is something worth considering, however if you play LPs then it may be best to ignore it as I feel its strength is in digital playback.
Cost is 10,000 to 12,000 euros, but as I say it matches equipment far more expensive and benefits of being a one box solution with a great digital and amp design.

http://www.absolutesounds.com/includes/tng/pub/tNG_download4.php?page=21&product_id=536&category3=Integrated solid state amplifier&category3_id=4&category2=Amplifiers&category2_id=2&category1=Audio&category1_id=1&manufacturer=Devialet&manufacturer_id=27&KT_download1=5e5375f7f83e25ad2a88b8dbeb6d79e4

http://www.devialet.com/

As you can tell I have put my order in, and I was about to upgrade to a pre/power that had a combined price of £18,000 before deciding on the Devialet.

Cheers
Orb

[mrciave]

There is also another new product, the Devialet D-Premier digital amp (also uses a Class A stage), so it is not the same as say the new Nad.
I have to say personally I feel this is one of the best amps out there and is equal to pre/power amps that are 8,000 to 10,000 for each bit.
The other benefit is there is no need for a quality DAC (wether an external box or going for a very expensive CD with a good DAC-filter design).

This integrated has some of the very best measurements ever tested, and I can say it drives difficult speakers comfortably and at low or loud reference volume (tested my lounge 8.5m by 10m).

The difficulty though is that this is a very new product and distributors/dealers are slowly being selected, so getting to hear this may take a little while.
However as you cannot purchase straight away something else then it is something worth considering, however if you play LPs then it may be best to ignore it as I feel its strength is in digital playback.
Cost is 10,000 to 12,000 euros, but as I say it matches equipment far more expensive and benefits of being a one box solution with a great digital and amp design.

http://www.absolutesounds.com/includes/tng/pub/tNG_download4.php?page=21&product_id=536&category3=Integrated solid state amplifier&category3_id=4&category2=Amplifiers&category2_id=2&category1=Audio&category1_id=1&manufacturer=Devialet&manufacturer_id=27&KT_download1=5e5375f7f83e25ad2a88b8dbeb6d79e4

http://www.devialet.com/

As you can tell I have put my order in, and I was about to upgrade to a pre/power that had a combined price of £18,000 before deciding on the Devialet.

Cheers
Orb

Interesting piece of equipment... I can imagine it on the wall of my living room. But I guess no way to listen to it in my area...

[mrciave]

Back from the second audition of the 802Ds (which are now MY 802Ds :lol: ).

First up went the Copland PRE/2 AMPS in bridge mode, stayed 10minutes on (they were already warmed up), and I discarded them immediately. They were struggling even with jazz to play more than one instrument at the time...

Second up was again the Primare chain, CD31/PRE30/A32, same as I listened the first time.

Maybe because it started from cold, maybe because I was there in battle mode to discover any reason not to buy the chain, maybe because I am just starting to understand the speakers, but I was not as impressed as the first time...

To be honest, the amplifier does not seem to struggle with current, even on some difficult classical pages, let's say the whole chain does an honest job with any music, and it makes a great job of showing exactly what is in the CDs, but the general feeling is that the chain is not up to the speakers. Not in terms of power, but of quality.

Just to make sure, when back home I played the same CDs on my good old system (Marants CD53SE, Rotel RA930BX, Diapason Micra II) and... It just felt more balanced. For sure, I could hear none of the details heard with the B&Ws, no bass, no big dynamics, but there was a sense of harmony that is what kept that system exactly same with me for 15years.

So now I'm facing a difficult choice:
- bring the 802Ds home without any equipment and start listening to McIntosh, Classe, Pass Labs gear in distant shops (>150km trip one-way)
- order a Classe CP700/CA2200 or McIntosh integrated/separates without listening (but huge money!!!), sure will be good, but...
- bring home the Primare chain (or with better CD, in a few days I'll be able to compare the Esoteric SA-50 with the Primare), and start listening, while waiting for the small shop to receive other gear (he accepts to bring the gear home for comparison), but he'll get only Classe

I guess first choice is not good, especially because I should start knowing my speakers, but the third choice, even if the most reasonable one, worries me that I would listen to my B&Ws not happily in a short time...

Well guys, just vote and let me know what you think :W .

[Skyblue]

I think its cheaper to take a taxi 150 km's each way, than buying the wrong equipment because you didn't listen to it.

[mrciave]

Esoteric SA-50 and B&W 802D are home. Pics in the proper thread.

As I still need to listen to and select my amplifier, I'm driving them with the valve FATMAN ITUBE 252. Surprisingly, the 2x25W thing is driving the B&Ws reasonably and with decent musicality, and for sure it's better than the Copland I listened to in the shop.

There's a friend driving his Usher BE10 with an integrated GRYPHON DIABLO, he's going to come over and let me try it.

Anybody with experience with the Diablo?

PS here we go again off topic, but the audition of Mac gear is still planned :lol:

[style]

Hy Andrea,

the GRYPHON make a very High End power ampli....

in Europa the Diablo today is around at17,5k. €. ok, the price don't make the sound but is a "all in one" at the level from the High 2 pieces gears...

yes the 802D have a soundstage more "large,big" vs. the 803D but are 2 very good speakers.


Ciao Style

[Orb]

I read a good review of the Diablo, they were very impressed but one consideration is that the rest of the equipment can be important for pairing with it, I think they commented about being surprised that it can sound amazing and with a slight change in equipment with it (still very good gear), sounded good but not as amazing.

Not much to go on I appreciate, but may be worth testing with the actual gear you intend to use it with.
Another positive, they are exceptionally well made and specified/implemented amps by Gryphon - can drive tough speakers very well.

Cheers
Orb

[Birdy]

Back from the second audition of the 802Ds (which are now MY 802Ds :lol: ).

First up went the Copland PRE/2 AMPS in bridge mode, stayed 10minutes on (they were already warmed up), and I discarded them immediately. They were struggling even with jazz to play more than one instrument at the time...

Second up was again the Primare chain, CD31/PRE30/A32, same as I listened the first time.

Maybe because it started from cold, maybe because I was there in battle mode to discover any reason not to buy the chain, maybe because I am just starting to understand the speakers, but I was not as impressed as the first time...

To be honest, the amplifier does not seem to struggle with current, even on some difficult classical pages, let's say the whole chain does an honest job with any music, and it makes a great job of showing exactly what is in the CDs, but the general feeling is that the chain is not up to the speakers. Not in terms of power, but of quality.

Just to make sure, when back home I played the same CDs on my good old system (Marants CD53SE, Rotel RA930BX, Diapason Micra II) and... It just felt more balanced. For sure, I could hear none of the details heard with the B&Ws, no bass, no big dynamics, but there was a sense of harmony that is what kept that system exactly same with me for 15years.

So now I'm facing a difficult choice:
- bring the 802Ds home without any equipment and start listening to McIntosh, Classe, Pass Labs gear in distant shops (>150km trip one-way)
- order a Classe CP700/CA2200 or McIntosh integrated/separates without listening (but huge money!!!), sure will be good, but...
- bring home the Primare chain (or with better CD, in a few days I'll be able to compare the Esoteric SA-50 with the Primare), and start listening, while waiting for the small shop to receive other gear (he accepts to bring the gear home for comparison), but he'll get only Classe

I guess first choice is not good, especially because I should start knowing my speakers, but the third choice, even if the most reasonable one, worries me that I would listen to my B&Ws not happily in a short time...

Well guys, just vote and let me know what you think :W .

Hi Andrea

I would go for the full monty, being Classé, McIntosh or something similar is a matter of personal taste. Your 802 deserve this! And your listening experience will become a huge leap forward. I know this road is expensive (I did the same road 3 years ago, entering the shop for a pair of 805 and going out with a pair of 802 + Classé) but it is worth it.
Also, dunno in Italy but in Belgium where I bought all my stuff the more expensive you buy the bigger the discount... I had a bit more than 20% off the total prize....

[mrciave]

Full monty being Classe', McIntosh or...

What's most confusing for me is that it seems there are two audiophile worlds that are completely disconnected: the "big brands" market with Classe', McIntosh, B&W, Esoteric... and the "other brands", in which you find many good products as well.

But, for some reason, people from the "big brands" world will always say there's one way to go, don't bother with anything else, and the "other brands" people will say that the "big brands" are just overpriced.

Today I'm back from an audition of a friend's system, Esoteric X-01LE, Gryphon Diablo, Usher BE10 (with serious work on cables, electronics table, and so on), and what to say, ASTONISHING ;x( !

In the specific, the amplifier just did not exist, meaning it never missed a beat, ran out of current, or coloured the sound in any way, just took the signal from CD and multiplied x times to feed the speakers.

So, as this guy will actually bring his ampli to my house, and as the Diablo list price is almost as the Classe' couple CP700-CA2200, or the McIntosh integrated MA7000, well I'll consider the Diablo in the list of full monty.

20% is kind of discount here as well, but pushing it's possible to get more.

In the meantime the 802Ds are keeping playing with the small FATMAN...

[mrciave]

Also, dunno in Italy but in Belgium where I bought all my stuff the more expensive you buy the bigger the discount... I had a bit more than 20% off the total prize....

BTW, I spent two years in Leuven, which part of Belgium are you from?

[Orb]

Glad the audition went well, Gryphon are highly regarded amps.

Cheers
Orb

[style]

Hi Andrea,
you go see the Gryphon sound very amazing and Birdy know as well ....
Birdy's freind Fred is go "crazy" for the Diablo and have listen&tested a lot of great gears...

the CA2200&CP700 is at €. 9200.-(with fully audiogamma warranty) :W

ciao Omar

[Birdy]

BTW, I spent two years in Leuven, which part of Belgium are you from?

Lived in several places around Brussels, nearby Leuven (very nice city)as well, for instance Herent and Korbeek Dijle. Rings a bell?

Ciao

[Birdy]

Full monty being Classe', McIntosh or...



So, as this guy will actually bring his ampli to my house, and as the Diablo list price is almost as the Classe' couple CP700-CA2200, or the McIntosh integrated MA7000, well I'll consider the Diablo in the list of full monty.

Way to go! This is the only valuable approach, even if not always feasable; bring the "stuff" to YOUR room and to listen in YOUR environment! :T

If the Classé wasn't so heavy I could make the 300Km and bring it to your home as well, but definitively too heavy and bulky, sorry :cry: :cry: :cry:

[mrciave]

Way to go! This is the only valuable approach, even if not always feasable; bring the "stuff" to YOUR room and to listen in YOUR environment! :T

If the Classé wasn't so heavy I could make the 300Km and bring it to your home as well, but definitively too heavy and bulky, sorry :cry: :cry: :cry:

Thanks for the offer, Birdy. But after six years of working in Milano and doing the A4 back and forth, no way I would force ANYBODY to drive on that crazy road.

Well, looks like the Diablo got my hearth. I think the best word for it is "unmoveable". The listening session was great, the 802Ds finally came to life, and there was no worry anymore of the volume going up :W .

So now it's only a matter of getting a used or new one... But for me the search is over. Amazing machine, love the "Darth Vader" look, the clicks of relais when changing input, and so on...

Funny to start a thread all about McIntosh electronics, and ending up with an Esoteric and a Gryphon...