New B&W serie 800 !!!

[style]

hy,

yes the difference is not little but if you go see the speaker and ampli for the cars we have very similar differences....

a speaker for a car, to be placed in the front doors in the past not was possible what we can make today -> in the past a 100watt ampli for the cars have not enough space in the front doors today is possible!


Style

[aarsoe]

Sikoniko

You need to elaborate on the part about Denmark.
Unless you work for B&W and do negotiations for them, then I don't know how you can issue such a statement. So please inform me...

[wettou]

Arf! 8kgs savings on magnets? Come on...

Did you hear them,8O

I did and was blown away by the 805Di.

The 802Di were nice but they sounded very similar to 802Ds. The dealer even told me don't bother if you have the 802D they are very very close.

Now if you want the 800Di then that is an upgrade

[beden1]

Sikoniko

You need to elaborate on the part about Denmark.
Unless you work for B&W and do negotiations for them, then I don't know how you can issue such a statement. So please inform me...

I agree. Here say and marketing angles don't make it so.

[Skyblue]

I agree. Here say and marketing angles don't make it so.

I heard mentioned that in the UK the workes could work 24hours a day in 3 shifts, whereas in Denmark unions only allowed 2 shifts. I suppose having 3 shifts is a better use of the capital invested in such a factory.

So I guess there is a 2/3 chance of getting a speaker that wasn't assembled in the dark

[wettou]

I heard mentioned that in the UK the workes could work 24hours a day in 3 shifts, whereas in Denmark unions only allowed 2 shifts. I suppose having 3 shifts is a better use of the capital invested in such a factory. So I guess there is a 2/3 chance of getting a speaker that wasn't assembled in the dark

What is next, soon to be made in Malaysia, China or India with slave labor

Profits and greed

[sikoniko]

Sikoniko

You need to elaborate on the part about Denmark.
Unless you work for B&W and do negotiations for them, then I don't know how you can issue such a statement. So please inform me...

that is what I was told by a B&W employee at CES. you can choose to believe it or not. That is definately your perogative.

[wettou]

that is what I was told by a B&W employee at CES. you can choose to believe it or not. That is definately your perogative.

But of course

[kindofblue]

At the end of the day isn't it a little bit sad to go this way when talking about High End stuff?
And what does we get, from a musical standpoint, as a consequence? At least a progressive change in philosophy? Not sure it's good for the brand...

[aarsoe]

To me stating something like that sounds like sour grapes. So what will be next? The uk workers wanted bathroom time, so we are moving to Afghanistan..

One thing is to move - another is to bitch about why you had to do it.

Will need to think about my loyalty to B&W. I personally hold them to higher standards than that.
On second thought. A search for the word CSR on their website gave no result at all..

[sikoniko]

To me stating something like that sounds like sour grapes. So what will be next? The uk workers wanted bathroom time, so we are moving to Afghanistan..

One thing is to move - another is to bitch about why you had to do it.

Will need to think about my loyalty to B&W. I personally hold them to higher standards than that.
On second thought. A search for the word CSR on their website gave no result at all..

I got the impression that they did it because those constraints prevented them from being able to meet demand... so, on the flip side, if you insist they keep it in Denmark, it could result in increased prices and longer waits for delivery of product,...

[ShadowZA]

New 802Di pair arrived at my supplier's showroom yesterday. Popped in today to snap a quick pick of them.

[1oldguy]

wondering if it looks like the same level of quality regarding the cabinet.Not so sure it is.
But hey i"m old and jaded.

P.S Yes I can see it wasn't taken with a $3500.00 dollar camera.I'm not that old.

[wettou]

I got the impression that they did it because those constraints prevented them from being able to meet demand... so, on the flip side, if you insist they keep it in Denmark, it could result in increased prices and longer waits for delivery of product,...

You mean even more expensive that they already are?

Price went up a 100% since they first came out with 800 series!!

Cabinet has not changed, mid range has not changed same Kevlar and same Merlan head, same finishes except for the piano black and siver rings, so please spare us it sounds like you work for the firm!!!

Oh and I forgot new plugs

[Skyblue]

It seems to me that the old 802's where much better looking in integrating the different tree parts. Examples:






If you look at these pics, the treewood curves almost seamlessly looking as one big surface. On the new ones there clear and apparent lines of wood. Also it seems like the new cherry is less orangy, so I guess they won't even blend with the old 800d series.

If this is the standard I will have to reconsider buying the new series.

[1oldguy]

You my friend just proved my point.I love the look of these cabinets compared with the new.
As they say,newer is not always better.

[Skyblue]

You my friend just proved my point.I love the look of these cabinets compared with the new.
As they say,newer is not always better.

I actually think the new ones look almost substandard. I hope this one new pair is a just a fast prototype for people to listen to. :/

Otherwise, b&w just discovered the difference between danish quality woodwork and british people assembling speakers in the dark

[wettou]

I actually think the new ones look almost substandard. I hope this one new pair is a just a fast prototype for people to listen to. :/

Otherwise, b&w just discovered the difference between danish quality woodwork and british people assembling speakers in the dark

I could not agree more they look awful the woodwork is very sloppy

If I were to buy the new 800Di series I would buy the Piano Black at least paint covers it all :T

[1oldguy]

Even free they look like eye sores.IMHO.And that's without the car audio ring around the woofer.

[beden1]

But, remember that the cherry finish blooms a warmer color as it oxidizes. I know that is what happened with the 703s that I use as surrounds.

[ShadowZA]

wondering if it looks like the same level of quality regarding the cabinet.Not so sure it is.
But hey i"m old and jaded.

P.S Yes I can see it wasn't taken with a $3500.00 dollar camera.I'm not that old.

Lighting was difficult, so I took the photos at an ISO setting of 1600 (I didn't want to use the flash) - hence the noisy (grainy) look. I also faded out some color in the top pic in order for the wood detail (grain) to stand out more.

[1oldguy]

Lighting was difficult, so I took the photos at an ISO setting of 1600 (I didn't want to use the flash) - hence the noisy (grainy) look. I also faded out some color in the top pic in order for the wood detail (grain) to stand out more.

It's not so much the color that gets me but the way it was done with the seams so blatantly obvious(Side by side) whereas the previous version looked like one cohesive work of art.

[style]

Hy guys,

sorry but you write that new 80xD are the same inside, that don't "pay" the purchasing of a new serie vs. the old, the the sound is not different

ANd you beliebe that B&W have changed the wood dealer!?!?!?!


is the same, pictures make a good(or bad) job: depend if you are pro new or not :W

I'm pro. a "old" 802D is priced in switzerland (a Demo with around 200hr., old model new no more available in all europa) chf. 11500.- (+/- 500.-)
a New 802D2 is available for Chf. 16500.- , well 5000.-chf. for me is a valid price to have the last techno.

Style

[ShadowZA]

For completeness, here's the top pic with color restored:

[kindofblue]

They might not have changed their wood dealer, but apparently they have changed the way they finish the cabinet with these narrower strips of wood, which gives this poor visual aspect on the surface.

Narrow strips are much cheaper simply because you will have less defects than with larger layers, which would require a more stringent selection of better trees. You got the same thing with leather stuff.

New techno - assuming there is - would require the beast to be much much better then the older one, given all the cost savings that finally ends up with a substantial price increase..

[Skyblue]

For completeness, here's the top pic with color restored:

Better with regard to seamlessness, but still... Look at the left speakers front. Theres a clear line in the middle and between the front and the curvy back. Pretty sloppy for the price of the expensive furniture. On the right, the lines are stille apparent, albeit not as much as in the original picture.

I still think the last edition from the danish factory was way better. Not surprising since the danish are famous for furniture and invented the techiniques used. I doubt anyone could just move the factory and expect equal quality right away. Danish craftmanship doesnt just come from a couple of guys. Its the collected experience of several decades tought down to the next generations of workers.. and so on and so forth.

[specialized]

Better with regard to seamlessness, but still... Look at the left speakers front. Theres a clear line in the middle and between the front and the curvy back. Pretty sloppy for the price of the expensive furniture. On the right, the lines are stille apparent, albeit not as much as in the original picture.

I still think the last edition from the danish factory was way better. Not surprising since the danish are famous for furniture and invented the techiniques used. I doubt anyone could just move the factory and expect equal quality right away. Danish craftmanship doesnt just come from a couple of guys. Its the collected experience of several decades tought down to the next generations of workers.. and so on and so forth.

Well.. I havent write long time ago.. But seem that B&W are moving their lines from enthuastic part to the typical marketing hype.. I dont like becouse they try to give us things that are definitly not price increment and trying with lower quailty (moving from Denmark to England is definitly lower quality at least for the cabinets). Im very happy that i bought it in last moment my 805s as rears (i ordered 804s, but not able to sell me )to complement with my front end 803s/htm3s. I was interested to get a 802D but now there is no chance to spend that money for the new model. Too good i have other passions as well, so i'll still get exciting and enjoyment and give the speakers budget money for something more fair.. (i just ordered new Carbon Fibre pedals for my mountain bike. At least Carbon fibre is high tech material
And it's good thing that i finnaly listen music not a speakers all the time while testing which one to buy

So thank u B&W to help me to listen more music, which is a point of our speakers

Greetings (while enjoying Rebecca Pidgeon SACD on my old fashioned, inferior and not high tech 803s.. , connected to even lower tech McIntosh C2300 tube preamp )

Darko

[wettou]

Better with regard to seamlessness, but still... Look at the left speakers front. Theres a clear line in the middle and between the front and the curvy back. Pretty sloppy for the price of the expensive furniture. On the right, the lines are stille apparent, albeit not as much as in the original picture.

I still think the last edition from the danish factory was way better. Not surprising since the danish are famous for furniture and invented the techiniques used. I doubt anyone could just move the factory and expect equal quality right away. Danish craftmanship doesnt just come from a couple of guys. Its the collected experience of several decades tought down to the next generations of workers.. and so on and so forth.

YES you said it Craftsmanship, well that is truly unfortunate. You have to understand that B&W, Classé and Rotel are owned by an investment firm and the only thing they care about is PROFIT MARGINS.

Therefore increasing the price reduce cost and filling your pockets. I am done with B&W. I am starting to explore other avenue where the company is not driven by finance people and truly by craftsman. Plus hopefully my current set up will last me ten years. We are so far from founder John Bowers!!

Sonus Faber any one

[specialized]

[QUOTE=wettou]YES you said it Craftsmanship, well that is truly unfortunate. You have to understand that B&W, Classé and Rotel are owned by an investment firm and the only thing they care about is [b]PROFIT MARGINS.


When i bought a first B&W speakers, 602, they were made in UK and when i register them B&W send me a present , very nice pencil. That gesture impressed me.. I continue to buy 601, and center, and they also send me some small presents.. Then i bought a 803s/HTM3S/CM1, they send me a CD. When i got 805S they dont send marketing presents, now u get offer to download few cd's or tracks (in my case i was unable to download, dont know why).

So they seem the cut the cost even in marketing, with increased prices.

Also 600 series are moved to China and prices are still increased.

Darko

[mrciave]

Well, big thanks to B&W. With the change of series, I could get a pair of new 802D old series with big discount. Now that the new series is out and everybody prefers the old one, price of used gear will go sky high!

Jokes apart, I'm so happy I could buy the old series, I have spent two days just swapping CDs and discovering new details in the music, well that's what I wanted, listen to music.

Cannot agree more with specialized (BTW, I switched from Specialized to Scott :T ).

[btf1980]

YES you said it Craftsmanship, well that is truly unfortunate. You have to understand that B&W, Classé and Rotel are owned by an investment firm and the only thing they care about is PROFIT MARGINS.

Therefore increasing the price reduce cost and filling your pockets. I am done with B&W. I am starting to explore other avenue where the company is not driven by finance people and truly by craftsman. Plus hopefully my current set up will last me ten years. We are so far from founder John Bowers!!

Sonus Faber any one

Sonus Faber is not interested in profit margins?

For people complaining about the finish, there is nothing wrong with the wood or finish of the new series. See them in person and judge first. I understand some may not like the metal rings, but I have not heard anyone who has seen them in person complain about the cabinetry. Are you guys serious??? The speakers in the pics are new, I suppose you are unaware the Cherry speakers in general change over time and show the most inconsistencies in the finish due to the light shade of the wood. Any woodworker worth his weight will tell you that no two pieces of wood are identical.

[mjb]

I don't particularly like the new metal rings, but what I'm reading here is verging on hysteria. That people can base such strong opinion on a few doctored pictures is almost beyond me... I say, if you haven't seen/heard them first hand hold off on your judgment. And as for the difference between a Dane or a Brit pressing a bit of wood, pathetic.

[wettou]

Sonus Faber is not interested in profit margins?

For people complaining about the finish, there is nothing wrong with the wood or finish of the new series. See them in person and judge first. I understand some may not like the metal rings, but I have not heard anyone who has seen them in person complain about the cabinetry. Are you guys serious??? The speakers in the pics are new, I suppose you are unaware the Cherry speakers in general change over time and show the most inconsistencies in the finish due to the light shade of the wood. Any woodworker worth his weight will tell you that no two pieces of wood are identical.

I have seen them and the cherry doesn't look good from my opinion. The Piano Black looks cool.

Yes Sonus Faber wants profit. I am just saying B&W has moved to become a Chinese made product pushed by marketing rather than R&D!! At least Sonus Faber is made in Italy

[garak]

I can't believe all of the negativity from people who supposedly weren't going to buy the new series anyway. Perhaps they're just trying to convince themselves that they don't really want them.

[ray5]

I can't believe all of the negativity from people who supposedly weren't going to buy the new series anyway. Perhaps they're just trying to convince themselves that they don't really want them.

Well said!

[1oldguy]

I don't particularly like the new metal rings, but what I'm reading here is verging on hysteria. That people can base such strong opinion on a few doctored pictures is almost beyond me... I say, if you haven't seen/heard them first hand hold off on your judgment. And as for the difference between a Dane or a Brit pressing a bit of wood, pathetic.

FOR THE RECORD.....I don't care where the wood is from.I do however care about the way it's implemented.

[wettou]

I can't believe all of the negativity from people who supposedly weren't going to buy the new series anyway. Perhaps they're just trying to convince themselves that they don't really want them.

Not! but that is a psychological possibility :W

[Skyblue]

I can't believe all of the negativity from people who supposedly weren't going to buy the new series anyway. Perhaps they're just trying to convince themselves that they don't really want them.

This is a strange remark. Ad hominem attack at people who dislike the picture in question because the veneer look substandard.

Well, for the record:

a) The critique is relevant and was qualified with a "lets see how the final version looks and sounds".. I might still get a pair.

b) I actually had the 800d's on order when I heard about the new series, and cancelled my order to get the new ones. Now I'm not so sure that was a good idea.

c) I can state my opponion on everything I like, whether I want to, or already own the item. What you want to buy does not come in to consideration when judging the craftmanship. It is clear to everybody that the pictures of the old model shows much more care in aligning and polishing the wood than do the picture of the new one. You don't need a phd to see that, just open your eyes. Whether this is due to inexperinced british workers I dont know. But I do know that Denmark is famous for its woodwork and Britain is not,so a drop in quality is not completely unexpected. But again, I haven't seen it for real, and this might not be the best speaker they've build. It obviously isnt.

[wettou]

This is a strange remark. Ad hominem attack at people who dislike the picture in question because the veneer look substandard.

Well, for the record:

a) The critique is relevant and was qualified with a "lets see how the final version looks and sounds".. I might still get a pair.

b) I actually had the 800d's on order when I heard about the new series, and cancelled my order to get the new ones. Now I'm not so sure that was a good idea.

c) I can state my opponion on everything I like, whether I want to, or already own the item. What you want to buy does not come in to consideration when judging the craftmanship. It is clear to everybody that the pictures of the old model shows much more care in aligning and polishing the wood than do the picture of the new one. You don't need a phd to see that, just open your eyes. Whether this is due to inexperinced british workers I dont know. But I do know that Denmark is famous for its woodwork and Britain is not,so a drop in quality is not completely unexpected. But again, I haven't seen it for real, and this might not be the best speaker they've build. It obviously isnt.

Just like Aston Martins, was revamped by Ford and now is manufactured in Germany Quality improved

[Skyblue]

Just like Aston Martins, was revamped by Ford and now is manufactured in Germany Quality improved

Germans make great cars actually. The british used to, but I guess they has something else they needed to do. I love watching top gear, and I feel completely with Clarkson when he regrets how almost all modern british cars are made completely of german parts. British design is better though.

[KahunaCanuck]

I haven't seen it for real, and this might not be the best speaker they've build. It obviously isnt.

Uh, if you haven't seen or heard the new series, how can you say this? Your judging it all on a few pictures on the internet??? Seriously??

I think you need to see and listen to them. :^x

[Nolan B]

Germans make great cars actually. The british used to, but I guess they has something else they needed to do. I love watching top gear, and I feel completely with Clarkson when he regrets how almost all modern british cars are made completely of german parts. British design is better though.

:E

Not a chance.

[beden1]

Just like Aston Martins, was revamped by Ford and now is manufactured in Germany Quality improved

I always liked Aston Martins starting with the James Bond movies. I'm happy to learn they are made in Germany, as I thought they were now being made in India?

[Skyblue]

Uh, if you haven't seen or heard the new series, how can you say this? Your judging it all on a few pictures on the internet??? Seriously??

I think you need to see and listen to them. :^x

Thats what I wrote However, the picture didn't exactly lift my expectations.

[style]

Hallo,

is very strange!!!

I go in the forum from B&W from Fredbelgium and all the members say that the new serie is much better vs. the old serie: and I read that is better not only on sound BUT the WOOD is very better.
They write "...the old serie have a wood in Ikea standart ..." 8O 8O
= Ikea you know is at very unexpesive store!!!!!

And in Usa is viceversa!!! :lol: 8O

we can make 50%? :W
normally we say " the true is the middle" Or?

Style