Power needs of 803D similar to 802D?

[jack d]

For reasons that I explained in another post I am considering a purchase of some 803Ds (for a second system).

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=34045

I currently have 802Ds in my main set up and am driving them with Mcintosh MC501 mono blocks. It is well known that the 802Ds really sing when you provide them with ample power and that has been my experience.

For those of you with 803Ds have you noticed the same thing? If I get the 803Ds one option is to drive them with an Arcam P7 that I already own. If, however, there is a strong indication that the 803Ds need more power I might have to consider picking up another amp (perhaps a MC205).

Thanks for any thoughts.

[Tweir]

The 802d and the 803d will take all of the power you can give them. In my setup I had the 803d with the cam 400's one per speaker and the sound was awesome but felt the amps were better than the speakers. The 802d felt right at home on this setup and knowing now what I do if I had to do it over again I would have paired the 803d with
a mc402 and maybe the mc252. How many times do you really listen to music at
100db plus.

After taking power in watts in to consideration look at the quality of the amps. The
mc402 is quad balance and the mc252 is not so I would settle there or if you
are doing surround take a look at the mc303 for your front three. The mc205 is a good amp but for the same price the ca5200 is the better out of the 2. Mc205 is
200 watts a speaker not matter what the classe ca5200 will almost double down to
200 watts at 8ohm to 390watts at 4ohms.

[jack d]

The 802d and the 803d will take all of the power you can give them. In my setup I had the 803d with the cam 400's one per speaker and the sound was awesome but felt the amps were better than the speakers. The 802d felt right at home on this setup and knowing now what I do if I had to do it over again I would have paired the 803d with
a mc402 and maybe the mc252. How many times do you really listen to music at
100db plus.

No I don't listen at ear bleeding levels but it seems true that having the additional head room makes for a better sound at more reasonable listing levels.

After taking power in watts in to consideration look at the quality of the amps. The
mc402 is quad balance and the mc252 is not so I would settle there or if you
are doing surround take a look at the mc303 for your front three. The mc205 is a good amp but for the same price the ca5200 is the better out of the 2. Mc205 is
200 watts a speaker not matter what the classe ca5200 will almost double down to
200 watts at 8ohm to 390watts at 4ohms.

I would be doing surround. (HTM2D and 804Ss for surround). I auditioned a 402 at some point but ended up with 5 501s because I was concerned about mixing. The 501s for the surrounds are clearly over kill but I got a good deal....

For this second system I can't use the 501s (have to find a smaller/lighter alternative). Maybe 303 and 252. Don't want to spend good gobs, however, on second system. A quick look on audiogon shows several 402s. Didn't see any 303s or 252s.

I'm pretty much sold on the Mc BW combination although I did hear a dealer set up with BW 800Ds and Classe that was gorgeous. Probably not ready for a switch to Classe at this point.

Many thanks for the helpful feedback.

[KahunaCanuck]

I am running 803Ds with 501 monoblocks, then i have the 303 for the front and surrounds. the 303 sounded good running the front 3 before I got my 501s, but obviously the 501s were another step beyond!

I second the B&W/Mc combo...I think they really sing together.

[jack d]

I am running 803Ds with 501 monoblocks, then i have the 303 for the front and surrounds. the 303 sounded good running the front 3 before I got my 501s, but obviously the 501s were another step beyond!

I second the B&W/Mc combo...I think they really sing together.

You don't think that by driving L/R with 501s and C with 303 makes some noticeable difference/glitch in your sound stage given the difference in power?

[Tweir]

For the money I would think the mc303 on the center and the surrounds and the mc402 for your fronts. This would be budget and getting the most for your money.
I have heard the 803d, htm2d, ds8 x4 for 7.1 on a mx136 and mc207 and enjoyed
this system very much in surround and multi audio dvd/sacd, for 2 channel it did
not have the power in the bass I like but it was at least 85% of the sound of the
mc501's for 2 channel.

[jack d]

For the money I would think the mc303 on the center and the surrounds and the mc402 for your fronts. This would be budget and getting the most for your money.
I have heard the 803d, htm2d, ds8 x4 for 7.1 on a mx136 and mc207 and enjoyed
this system very much in surround and multi audio dvd/sacd, for 2 channel it did
not have the power in the bass I like but it was at least 85% of the sound of the
mc501's for 2 channel.

Well I guess when you are talking McIntosh the concept of what is "budget" is relative. I guess the MC303 is too new to see postings for used ones so there is 10k right there. Lots of 402s available so it seems like one could get a decent deal there.

You would not be worried about having different power to the L/R vs the Center?

[Tweir]

That's the cool thing with the mc303 and the mc402 combo. Both are identical with
autoformers and powerguard. If you look at the mc303 that is why its so big because of the autoformers and the outputs are 2,4,8 ohm. Both are fully balanced with the
main difference being watts per channel. The mc205,mc207 do not have the autoformers or powerguard and are not a fully balanced design. Remember this is being pretty cirtical I have seen many people do the mc402 and the mc205 and have
been very happy with the results.

[beden1]

I have my 803Ds connected to Classe CAM-350s and I feel they are a perfect match. They were previously driven by a Classe CAV-150 (bi-amped), and they sound much better overall and fuller at low end volume settings.

I think the 803Ds and 802Ds benefit equally with better and higher power. You may be surprised how well the 803Ds do as compared to the 802Ds, partcularly if the Classe SSP-800 is thrown into the mix.

[jack d]

With my 802Ds and MC501s I use the 4 ohm tap on the amps. Would one get the same benefit by doing this with the 803Ds as well?

[MikeFL52]

You are probably going to get as many differing replies as there are amp choices. I run my 803Ds with an Anthem Statement P5 and am very happy with the combination. It is certainly not compact or light, but has a smaller footprint than having seperate monoblocks in different chassis. It can easily handle just about any impedance without breaking into a sweat. A review can be found at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...r-12-2004.html

There has been much discussion on this forum about the Emotiva amps and I have to say with the 30 day return policy it might be worth giving them a try.

[jack d]

I have my 803Ds connected to Classe CAM-350s and I feel they are a perfect match. They were previously driven by a Classe CAV-150 (bi-amped), and they sound much better overall and fuller at low end volume settings.

I think the 803Ds and 802Ds benefit equally with better and higher power. You may be surprised how well the 803Ds do as compared to the 802Ds, partcularly if the Classe SSP-800 is thrown into the mix.

Interestingly, recently I saw some very good things said about the SSP-800 on--of all places--the Meridian users' site. I currently use a Meridian processor but hearing hard core Meridian users praise the SSP-800 made an impression.

[jack d]

You are probably going to get as many differing replies as there are amp choices. I run my 803Ds with an Anthem Statement P5 and am very happy with the combination. It is certainly not compact or light, but has a smaller footprint than having seperate monoblocks in different chassis. It can easily handle just about any impedance without breaking into a sweat. A review can be found at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...r-12-2004.html

There has been much discussion on this forum about the Emotiva amps and I have to say with the 30 day return policy it might be worth giving them a try.

I'm familiar with the P5. I had one with BW 700 series speakers before I upgraded to my current system. I liked it a lot but I'm really hooked on the Mcintosh/BW sound at this point. Also, since I already have an Arcam P7 I'm not sure an Anthem purchase would be worth it because I imagine I could get the same size/weight savings with the P7 as with the Anthem, and the sound would also probably be similar.

In any case, interesting to hear that you are satisfied with the P5 driving the 803Ds. Maybe I should get the speakers now and then have a listen with my Arcam P7 before I consider forking out for some other amplification solution.

thx.

[MikeFL52]

In any case, interesting to hear that you are satisfied with the P5 driving the 803Ds. Maybe I should get the speakers now and then have a listen with my Arcam P7 before I consider forking out for some other amplification solution.

That might be a good plan. You might be surprised with your Arcam.

[MikeFL52]

Just another thought since you like Macs. When I bought the 803Ds I heard them driven by the MC275 tube amp and they sounded very sweet indeed. I think the MC275 is rated 75W 2 ch 150W bridged. Not much power but I would imagine bags of current availability. It had absolutely no problems driving the speakers.

3 bridged across the front and 1 in 2 ch mode for the rears would be very nice IMHO.

[ninja12]

Well, I am a very recent and very proud owner of some 802Ds and a HTM2D. I have a 7.1 setup, and I am using my Anthem P2 to drive my 802Ds and the Anthem P5 to drive my HTM2D and my remaining speakers. I must say that the P2 and P5 are doing a very nice job in driving the speakers. The sound is very enveloping and clear. I cranked the volume up to reference level (volume zero), and the P2/P5 drove the speakers without any problems.

[KahunaCanuck]

You don't think that by driving L/R with 501s and C with 303 makes some noticeable difference/glitch in your sound stage given the difference in power?

Sorry, I missed this...

I am sure that in 99% of my listening their is more than enough power with the MC303 feeding the center/Surrounds...I have not seen the meters ever go past a little more than half way...they are not working that hard even at very loud levels, and the MC501s are working even less. They balance beautifully.

[jack d]

Sorry, I missed this...

I am sure that in 99% of my listening their is more than enough power with the MC303 feeding the center/Surrounds...I have not seen the meters ever go past a little more than half way...they are not working that hard even at very loud levels, and the MC501s are working even less. They balance beautifully.

Thanks.

[jack d]

For those of you with 803Ds and Mc amps, do you find that they sound better using the 4ohm taps? I certainly notice an improvement using the 4ohm taps for the 802Ds.
thanks.

[style]

Hi jack d,

i had a MC205 with my 803D but I thing that at 8ohm you have a better sound.
and with 4ohm your Mc dont give more watt....go with 8 ohm!!

for the 802D i will go with 8 ohm.

today I have a Classe CA5200 and a 802 or 803 sound much better with a
2xCA2200 in bi-amp vs. a CA400 from 400 watt!!!

with the bi-amp you have a perfect control frm the high-mid and low freq., you go listen every sound!
Style

[Hammie]

Heck, you can potentially save yourself some money and try out the Emotiva XPA-1 monoblocks for 30 days in house. Just a thought.

[KahunaCanuck]

I run my 803Ds on the 4 ohm and think it sounds better...

[Kal Rubinson]

for the 802D i will go with 8 ohm.

I go with 4ohm because, over most of the frequency spectrum demanding the most music energy, the 802Ds impedance is way down there.

Kal

[jack d]

I go with 4ohm because, over most of the frequency spectrum demanding the most music energy, the 802Ds impedance is way down there.

Kal

Yes, I totally agree. I run my 802Ds off the McIntosh 4ohm tap and think there is no question. To my ear it sounds better than off the 8ohm tap. But my question is related to the 803Ds. Same story or do they have different response?

[Kal Rubinson]

Well, has anyone done an accurate impedance graph on the 803Ds?

Kal

[jack d]

Well, has anyone done an accurate impedance graph on the 803Ds?

Kal

I don't know. In any case, that wouldn't be as compelling to me as informed, first hand experience. The 803Ds haven't created the stir that the 802Ds have so it wouldn't surprise me if there hadn't been as much "analytical" work done on them. I'm living in the world of the second best at this point. I can't take my 802Ds with me. The best I can do is the 803Ds....

[style]

oke , is not watt reason....

Sorry but this demanding frequency spectrum with a 4ohm is more covered,
but also the quality - cleanliness of the sound is the same?

Pay this choce?

more frequenscy coverd or more stablity?

Style

[jack d]

oke , is not watt reason....

Sorry but this demanding frequency spectrum with a 4ohm is more covered,
but also the quality - cleanliness of the sound is the same?

Pay this choce?

more frequenscy coverd or more stablity?

Style

Sorry but I don't follow what you are trying to say.

[scanido]

I use the 4Ohm taps with my 803S and they definitely are better than the 8ohm. Since the 803D essentially has the same mid and bass drivers the 4ohm taps may also work well.

[beden1]

I use the 4Ohm taps with my 803S and they definitely are better than the 8ohm. Since the 803D essentially has the same mid and bass drivers the 4ohm taps may also work well.

Where are there 4 ohm taps on the 803D?

[htsteve]

beden1,

scanido is referring to the 4 Ohm taps on his Mac amp. This is where the decision is made.


I also have found the 4 Ohm taps to be better sounding.


Hope this helps.

[style]

Hi jack d,

Before to have the Classe ca5200 I had a Mc205. of course with 803d, htm2d and 805s (and sub)

I a personal taste; I don't like the sound of MC expeciallly the MC 205/207, but you go have enought power for the HT system. with a MC205 you can save money (vs the mc501) and space!!!
The MC you can have direct in Usa at 240V. with little (or at the same price)
like the version 120V.

With a Classe is not so easy change the tension from 120 to 240 V. (possible but you must buy a EU version much more expensive vs. the USA)

in USA I can have a MC205 for 4000$.? or so like that (in a version 240V. too),
the MC205 purchased in Europa is around $. 11500.- (new)

Style

[beden1]

beden1,

scanido is referring to the 4 Ohm taps on his Mac amp. This is where the decision is made.


I also have found the 4 Ohm taps to be better sounding.


Hope this helps.

Thanks. I thought I was missing something there! My Classe amps don't give me a choice.

[SoundEngine355]

For reasons that I explained in another post I am considering a purchase of some 803Ds (for a second system).

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=34045

I currently have 802Ds in my main set up and am driving them with Mcintosh MC501 mono blocks. It is well known that the 802Ds really sing when you provide them with ample power and that has been my experience.

For those of you with 803Ds have you noticed the same thing? If I get the 803Ds one option is to drive them with an Arcam P7 that I already own. If, however, there is a strong indication that the 803Ds need more power I might have to consider picking up another amp (perhaps a MC205).

Thanks for any thoughts.

I owned the 803D/HTM2D and drove them bi-amped with the Arcam P7, excellent combo, worked very well.

Don't sell out to big named amplifier companies, I purchased my Classe CA-M400's only becuase the pricing was not to be missed, however after using them for 1 week now, they are not of the same level as my DIY amplifiers, so not to sure how long they will stay in my system.

[jamesdaman]

So where can i but MC stuff as i live in the uk?? Or should i buy from the US and just put a UK mains cable on and us it?? I dont know how much classe gear is in the states but here for a good set up here its around £12k which is quite pricey really

[jack d]

Well I decided to go with an MC303 (HTM2D and 602S3 surrounds) and MC402 (803Ds). I'm driving everything off the 8 ohm taps for the moment but I will switch to the 4 ohm taps soon for the HTM2D and 803Ds. I'm pretty pleased with the sound but the current set up is only temporary. The room is small and not really optimal for these speakers. Still I'm very impressed with the 803Ds, HTM2D driven by the MCs. I still prefer my 802Ds and HTM1D but I think the smaller set up is going to be very nice.

BTW I got a great deal and great service on the MCs from Audio Classics. I highly recommend them.

[jack d]

Hi jack d,

Before to have the Classe ca5200 I had a Mc205. of course with 803d, htm2d and 805s (and sub)

I a personal taste; I don't like the sound of MC expeciallly the MC 205/207, but you go have enought power for the HT system. with a MC205 you can save money (vs the mc501) and space!!!
The MC you can have direct in Usa at 240V. with little (or at the same price)
like the version 120V.

With a Classe is not so easy change the tension from 120 to 240 V. (possible but you must buy a EU version much more expensive vs. the USA)

in USA I can have a MC205 for 4000$.? or so like that (in a version 240V. too),
the MC205 purchased in Europa is around $. 11500.- (new)

Style

No, McIntosh absolutely refuses to sell a 240 volt version in the US. My dealer and I both requested it persistently but they would not budge. I'm going to get step down transformers so I can use the 110 version when I relocate.

[style]

very strange.

I have purchased a MC205 with this forum with the voltage changed directly from a MC Usa dealer: in the rear was 120V but the electronics was to work with the 240v!!!

buyed with the help from a french forum Big member!!!

Style

[jack d]

very strange.

I have purchased a MC205 with this forum with the voltage changed directly from a MC Usa dealer: in the rear was 120V but the electronics was to work with the 240v!!!

buyed with the help from a french forum Big member!!!

Style

Was it new? Perhaps there are some dealers willing to do this "under the table?"

[style]

jack,

if do you will I can make a question...the "source in in USA and maybe can give you a MC with 249v. in a case with 120v "on the rear"....

work made from officiak deaker..$send my a PM
Style

[jack d]

jack,

if do you will I can make a question...the "source in in USA and maybe can give you a MC with 249v. in a case with 120v "on the rear"....

work made from officiak deaker..$send my a PM
Style

Thanks but it's OK. I will just get the step down transformers which was my plan when I purchased the MCs. I located a place nearby that makes them for medical equipment so I know that they have to work within pretty tight standards.

[nikos]

i'm in need of a step down transformer. Would you mind sharing your source for it.
I have ssp-800 and CA-5200 that I will be using in Europe but they are the 120V USA version.

Thanks

nikos

[jack d]

i'm in need of a step down transformer. Would you mind sharing your source for it.
I have ssp-800 and CA-5200 that I will be using in Europe but they are the 120V USA version.

Thanks

nikos

http://www.toroid.com/index.html

The engineer there knows about HT/Sound equipment so if you have any doubts about what you need you should discuss with him. I found him to be very helpful.

[htsteve]

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