B&W CES 2009 Announcement

[kmcheng]

Kevin,

If you have a chance, would you please elaborate a little bit more?

I am very open-minded about new products. In fact, I would admit that at first I was shell-shocked that B&W would come up with an Ipod speaker. However, now I think very highly of the Zepellin and conclude that it is really a steal at $600. I am hoping I can say the same with the new soundbar.

[btf1980]

$2,200 is pretty high for a sound bar. I would honestly prefer a cheap stereo system out of 600 Series speakers.

But, I'm sure they have a plan of some sorts with this thing.

What an underwhelming CES showing for the B&W group. This is the big secret they were touting all the while? :roll:

I feel as though they should have just waited a couple of months and announced the new CM series here, so at least it would look like they had something of substance. A $2,200 soundbar isn't. You could get a pair of 805s on Audiogon for that money. You'd be much better off buying a small pair of bookshelves like the CM1 for 1K, and save $1,200.

Any news from Rotel? Seems like everything is all some big secret, hush hush affair with regards to their new 2 channel offerings. I don't get it.

I just hope at CEDIA, The B&W group does not announce another breakthrough product, only to find out that it is some kind of bose acoustimass lifestyle speaker.

[joetama]

I think we share the same feeling of disappointment...

[Mikael]

I have the same feeling of disappointment,I do not understand all the hush hush and secret rooms and invitations to the suites.If you have something to show, show all or do it secretly at the factory.
Rotel said at CEDIA they would show the new stereo stuff at CES,Nothing to show the public.
B&W had a big add, saying they had a new exiting product and a makeover of an old series,they only showed on new model in the XT series.
Come on B&W Group, you can do better

[Kevin D]

It has audio inputs, volume control, and class D amplification built in, so you need to factor in that when pricing out getting a pair of bookshelves.

Kevin,

If you have a chance, would you please elaborate a little bit more?

I am very open-minded about new products. In fact, I would admit that at first I was shell-shocked that B&W would come up with an Ipod speaker. However, now I think very highly of the Zepellin and conclude that it is really a steal at $600. I am hoping I can say the same with the new soundbar.

With most the other sound bar's we sell, they just don't sound good. There's a lot of gimics in there, or yamaha's 30 something tweeters. The B&W piece sounds, well like a B&W soundbar should sound. The surround effect works well when sitting along the front, but it still sounds great when sitting off axis.

There's no tuner, no video switching, simple remote... Something perfect for what it's designed for. Everyone stating they would rather buy bookshelves keep in mind that this product is not for you. It's for dealers like us that have customers that want soundbar's. At least now we can offer a complete B&W home package with speakers that fits every room.

I actually gives props to B&W for even being at the show. A lot of brands didn't show up this year.

Kevin D.

[wgriel]

Thanks for posting your impressions, Kevin.

While I know this is a disappointing announcement for audiophiles, I think (like the Zeppelin) this product could make a splash in the general consumer space and it may be important for B&W to have a solid presence in that market during these tough economic times.

I would certainly be more inclined to get a pair of bookshelves & a receiver, but I know lots of people that will either stick with the TV speakers or go with something tiny, like a bose setup or a soundbar. If this does provide decent sound, good on B&W.

[Audio_ElF]

And if Bowers and Wilkins feel that making a proffit on the Zepplin and the Soundbar mean they can afford to develop products such as the 800 series then that all for the best. Getting the brand "out there and known" can only me for the best.

Eloise

[joetama]

And if Bowers and Wilkins feel that making a proffit on the Zepplin and the Soundbar mean they can afford to develop products such as the 800 series then that all for the best. Getting the brand "out there and known" can only me for the best.

Eloise

I think getting out there to be known is a very important thing for B&W. I know often when I talk about my speakers people think I'm saying "BMW" not "B&W". I grew up with B&W speakers so I've always had the knowledge of the company's existence. But, I would bet that a lot of people in the general consumer category think Polk, Yamaha, JBL, or many of the other "Big Box" brands are superior to B&W simply because they have never heard the name.

So more power to them for building a soundbar that sounds good. I do get what they are trying to do. But, I was really hoping for something more drastic and hi-fi oriented. I guess there is always next year.

[Gremal]

Yes, I am a bit disappointed. The more B&W focuses on mid-fi and mass marketing, the less it focuses on its high end speakers. At this point B&W is just giving ammunition to those who call it the "high end bose".

[joetama]

Who calls it the high end bose?

B&W is nothing like bose.

[Glenee]

Some self powered B&W 805D's would of been nice, Nope we get a sound bar.

[DM3000 Owner]

I've heard B&W compared to Bose or that B&W is midfi before by those who feel the need to hit below the belt.

I've stated this before, most high end speakers are outstanding and those that say brand X is junk and brand Y is a gateway to heavin when referring to high end audio are just punks that need to be ignored.

[wettou]

In this economy they need to increase sales volume and profit it is probably made in China and cost them $200 if that!!!

[KyaDawn]

Yes, I am a bit disappointed. The more B&W focuses on mid-fi and mass marketing, the less it focuses on its high end speakers. At this point B&W is just giving ammunition to those who call it the "high end bose".

No, that's B&O. :B

[KyaDawn]

I don't fault B&W for targeting the "lifestyle" market and for trying to increase their profile. The Zeppelin worked out well and it's an excellent product, and I will probably even get one myself.

I was actually considering the Panorama as well as I have flatscreen in the family room that could use it, but I was disappointed at the price. $2,200 puts it beyond what I want to pay for a soundbar.

[Russ L]

Yes, I am a bit disappointed. The more B&W focuses on mid-fi and mass marketing, the less it focuses on its high end speakers.

I was hoping for another premium line of speakers to replace the 700 series. Using the technologies that make B&W sound so great. But we are getting more lifestyle products and a general downgrading of the product line. With the exception of putting sound systems in Jaguars!
Its the decision to increase profits by increasing its profile in the higher price point sector of the mass market. More than likely next year profits will be increased by moving another line-the CMs- to production in China. The incredible sales of the mid-fi 600S3 series really paved the way for B&W to become one of the largest speaker companies in the world. That success may be carried too far.
Hopefully next year they will regain their former balance between high end and "hi-end" mass market lines. Hard economic times have caused other audiophile companies to increase profits by downgrading and mass marketing. Sansui is one that comes to mind in the early 80s.

[SoCalCM]

As a long time owner of 802Ds I can see where B&W would be hard pressed to come up with something "new". I'm glad they haven't.

I would have expected something from Classe -- I mean that touchscreen interface seems custom made to interface with an iPod or computer music database, just have all your music come up on the touchscreen. Am I the only one who hasn't thought of it? Maybe connect a Wadia 170 to the SSP800 or include a DAC in the CP500/CP700.

[wettou]

If you want to stay in business you have to adapt to the market :T

[Dmantis]

If you want to stay in business you have to adapt to the market :T

Everyone has to do this. Right now is not the time for high end. Sales are down everywhere and in just about everything. I see it everyday. People are just not spending the money right now.

I feel B&W is making wise choices. You have 2. The new CM line in my opinion is a step in the right direction for audio. I wish they offered Maple finish in USA but hey we all can't have our cake and eat it 2 right?

[Mark-n-b]

Personally I cannot see what is wrong with releasing a soundbar, weather we are in a downturn or not. B&W are in the business of making speaker systems using their vast knowledge and engineering know how to their best abilities. They can apply this knowledge to iPod docks, car audio and now a soundbar.

It may not suit us but it will suit a lot of people who do not want lots of large speakers round the room, but still want excellent sound quality.

I am still hoping that they work on a pair of high quality headphones. Like the soundbar, headphones may not suit everyone, but they would suit me!

[Briz vegas]

There is a lot of talk about gadgets here. Special interfaces on Classe, DSP modes etc

One of the reasons I like high end audio is the lack of frills and the focus on real quality. It is totally contrary to 99% of other consumer goods these days and that is a good thing. Processors to my mind are a necessary evil. I hate the way they are redundant every couple of years. Are the latest high def modes really any better than the DTS 24/96 on my Marantz for example?

Not too many years ago my parents bought a sony "hifi" that went into a frenzied demonstration mode every time the power went off and I had to wrestle with the thing to make it stop. They hated it and it has been replaced by my old mid '90s NAD receiver. Its simple and it thrashes the Sony just as it should. Elegant simplicity, not a gaggle of nasty "features" that offer 20 bad sounding modes.

My CJ amp doesn't even have an "on" switch, my CD player has a manual door and thats how hifi should be. This gear is not difficult to use, it just doesn't have useless features that are cheaply made and will fail in 3 years at the end of the warranty.

[btf1980]

Everyone has to do this. Right now is not the time for high end. Sales are down everywhere and in just about everything. I see it everyday. People are just not spending the money right now.

So, you think a $2,200 soundbar is what J6P will be lining up to buy in these tough economic times? Sales are down because people have no money. Introducing a soundbar that is the more expensive than most bookshelve speakers you sell is not wise decision. The soundbar is more than 25% the cost of a Classe SSP-800 at MSRP. Think about that for a minute.

I don't really dispute the rationale of having a soundbar to appeal to the casual listener, or someone with space issues, but at $2,200, they can forget about J6P buying it. At least with the Zeppelin, while it was not cheap, the price was not so far out of reach of other premium iPod docks. And of course, being affiliated as a playback mechanism for the most popular portable player in the world will elevate your profile, coupled with the fact that it is the only B&W product you can buy via mail order and from many non hifi shops. It's in all the Apple stores, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles etc.

A $2,200 sound bar just doesn't jive with me. I'm sure many will disagree, and think this is great. I don't.

Good luck to B&W with selling this thing, they will need it.

[KyaDawn]

So, you think a $2,200 soundbar is what J6P will be lining up to buy in these tough economic times? Sales are down because people have no money. Introducing a soundbar that is the more expensive than most bookshelve speakers you sell is not wise decision. The soundbar is more than 25% the cost of a Classe SSP-800 at MSRP. Think about that for a minute.

I don't really dispute the rationale of having a soundbar to appeal to the casual listener, or someone with space issues, but at $2,200, they can forget about J6P buying it. At least with the Zeppelin, while it was not cheap, the price was not so far out of reach of other premium iPod docks. And of course, being affiliated as a playback mechanism for the most popular portable player in the world will elevate your profile, coupled with the fact that it is the only B&W product you can buy via mail order and from many non hifi shops. It's in all the Apple stores, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles etc.

A $2,200 sound bar just doesn't jive with me. I'm sure many will disagree, and think this is great. I don't.

Good luck to B&W with selling this thing, they will need it.

Good post, I think probably B&W had already designed and planned the release of the Panorama way before the global economy tanked. Announcing it during the 2009 CES was just very unfortunate timing. I wonder if this is going to affect its release date into the market. On that note, I wonder whatever happened to the Liberty, the wireless system that was announced at last year's CES?

Anyway, here's my take on the Panorama that I wrote in another forum:

Unfortunately, I don't think the Panorama has the same "wow" factor as the Zeppelin does, and it's way over-priced for the segment of the market I think it's trying to reach.

The Zeppelin was effective because it didn't look like any of the other iPod docks, which were mostly plastic and most had a very similar look. Many of the smaller units lacked satisfying bass, and the ones that had sufficient bass like Apple's own offering had the sound quality of a ghetto blaster.

Instead, the Zeppelin carved out its own niche by offering both "hi-fi" sound quality and a very cool look. More importantly, while it was expensive, it wasn't so priced outside of the market where you could find better alternative options at that price or lower.

The Panorama, however, lacks the distinctions of the Zeppelin. While not being able to judge the sound quality as I haven't heard it, even if assuming it had the best sound of any soundbar, the price of the Panorama puts it against speaker separates, which I think becomes its downfall.

For USD$2,200, one has a lot of options. A LOT. Even within B&W, there are options that one can assume will sound better than the Panorama. Combined with the rest of the market, the USD$2,200 price tag makes the Panorama a difficult sell.

Besides the price, I personally don't find the Panorama to look that much different to other soundbars out there. Certainly it doesn't have that "wow" factor in terms of design as with the Zeppelin.

What's more, despite B&W's claim that it doesn't need a sub for most applications, the fact that many of its competition that cost from a quarter to less than half the price WILL come with a sub, means that likely these other options may sound more "satisfying" to the casual audience in terms of full-range presentation and having that LFE kick, particularly for HT applications.

Another consideration is that at USD$2,200, the Panorama rivals the price of many of the flatscreens on the market today. While serious audio/videophiles may not bat an eye that their speakers may cost more than their display, that is not true for the "lifestyle" or "casual" market that the Panorama seems to be aiming for.

In short, while I wouldn't completely dismiss a product I have yet to demo, and it could be that the Panorama offers outstanding audio performance, I feel that these factors mentioned will prevent it from reaching the consumer penetration of the Zeppelin, and which may in fact, prevent it from being a "successful" product.

On that note, I understand the Zeppelin uses some of the same drivers as found in the M-1. Anyone know if the Panorama also uses the same drivers from any of B&W's other speaker lines?

[RedWolf]

Personally I would have preferred to hear that B&W was finally releasing the 804d and 805d. I like the look of the speakers and thought I am no sound engineer, I think it would have been easy for B&W to reuse technology lessons from the Signature Diamond. But that would not have introduced B&W into a new market, which the Panorama does. (And why does it take B&W so long to update their website? Apple has the code ready to go the minute the announcement is made. Marketing 101 if you ask me.)

[sikoniko]

What is interesting is that there is a lot of talk about it. someone once said bad publicity is still good publicity.

I was in the hotel suite and saw the rotel stuff, the piano black CM speakers, the classe stuff and the soundbar. I was rather sidetracked with a conversation the time I was there though, so I didn't spend much time with the soundbar other than to say I heard it.

I walked away from CES, even after seeing $1m 2 channel systems, still loving b&w speakers. If you put it in perspective, the 800D's are an excellent value for their cost and rival, IMO, any of the speakers I heard, and are only a fraction of the cost.

Perhaps that is what many don't like about b&W, or classe. The ability to deliver high-end with a mid-end cost (when put in perspective).

[Isaac]

More pics of the groundbreaking soundbar and the radically new XT8. Scroll down near the bottom of the page.

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/ces2009//index6.html

[William]

More pics of the groundbreaking soundbar and the radically new XT8. Scroll down near the bottom of the page...

The soundbar idea is dumb, a $2000 soundbar without HDMI ins/out is outdated. Even a $300 Sony comes with HDMI switching.