805S + Bel Canto e.One S300i

[kmcheng]

Does anyone have any experience pairing the new Bel Canto digital amps with the B&W 800 series speakers?

I have been exploring better amplication after I got my 805S. Currently I have a Cambridge Audio 540R receiver (100W into 2 channels 8ohm). The receiver is fine for HT but really not up there for 2 channel music. I looked into the Rotel 1072 and 1085. While I can hear a difference from my Cambridge Audio, I cannot really say I like the sound better. My dealer also did not think I would gain much with either of those two units.

Due to the physical constraints in my cabinet, I can only go with slim-profile products that does not generate too much heat. The only thing left in my dealer's inventory is the Rotel 1092. Now that is an improvement I can hear. However, at that price point I can also get something like the Bel Canto S300i. My dealer does not carry Bel Canto, so I am wondering if anyone has experience with their products. Any experience with their previos Evo line would also be very helpful.

[cug]

I have been exploring better amplication after I got my 805S. Currently I have a Cambridge Audio 540R receiver (100W into 2 channels 8ohm). The receiver is fine for HT but really not up there for 2 channel music. I looked into the Rotel 1072 and 1085. While I can hear a difference from my Cambridge Audio, I cannot really say I like the sound better. My dealer also did not think I would gain much with either of those two units.

But he thinks that the Bel Canto M300 delivers better sound? Despite their usage of the same ICEPower modules? You believe him? If you really want a Bel Canto, doesn't the S300 (pricy compared to the RB1072) make more sense as long as you are not placing the amp directly at the speaker to have shorter speaker cables? Can you connect them with balanced interconnects in that case to avoid problems with interference (read: does your pre-amp support a fully balanced output)?

In short: I don't think that the Bel Canto S300/M300 or the Ref-1000 make any audible difference to the respective Rotel ICEPower amps - they have a different look and a higher price, that's it. And I also don't believe that the ridiculously priced Jeff Rowland amps with the same ICE modules sound any different ... but I admit - I'm not a naive audiophile who believes in either sales persons or manufacturers.

I just don't believe in these big manufacturer words "oh, we did sooooo many modifications to the modules, ...".

[kmcheng]

Actually, my dealer does not carry Bel Canto, so I did not ask him what a Bel Canto might or might not do. I am only considering what other options I might have if I were to spend $2000+ on, e.g., a Rotel 1092. Since it is hard to audition a Bel Canto in my area, I am wondering that other people's impressions are of them paired with B&W speakers.

As for the pre-amp, I might upgrade to one with a balanced input some time in the future. Obviously, my Cambridge Audio receiver does not have it. I am still waiting for a processor that can deal with the multi-channel lossless audio signals via HDMI. The Rotel 1069 was a prime candidate before I learned of all its problems with video.

[cug]

Actually, my dealer does not carry Bel Canto, so I did not ask him what a Bel Canto might or might not do. I am only considering what other options I might have if I were to spend $2000+ on, e.g., a Rotel 1092.

I see. Yeah, I'm in a similar situation - I'm looking for an amplifier with a bit more "juice". Was looking at combination RC-1082/RB-1080 or RB-1092. What I more or less decided on now is a Musical Fidelity A5, but it's not done yet.

With the ICEPower amps: If I'm in the market for one, I'd get either Rotel or Murano because all others are just too expensive for exactly the same technology and the promise they did some "custom modifications" ...

The Rotel 1069 was a prime candidate before I learned of all its problems with video.

If I remember correctly there were some not so nice sound issues with it mentioned in another thread here.

[SteinigerGE]

Kal Rubinson does, and he wrote about his experiences in Steroephile. Don't the bel cantos still drive some of the B&Ws in your multi-channel set up?

I had the bel canto REF 1000s with my 804S and was very happy with them until I heard the Red Dragon Leviathans that I have now. Through my upgrades to 803S and then to Verity Parsifal Ovations and also from an Arcam AVP700 and CD192 to SimAudio P-7 and SuperNova, I have still found no need to upgrade my Leviathan monoblocks. The Dragons aren't chaep, but compared to SS or tube amps with similar performance, they are a bargain!

I was having a discussion with a friend about his search for new speakers, and he commented that he was looking for speakers that were, "easy to drive". I realized that since I switched to ICEPower, this has not been an issue because into into 8 ohms both the bel cantos and Red Dragons bring 500W. They also run cool and can be left on all the time. Oh, and they sound fabulous!

[wgriel]

I was having a discussion with a friend about his search for new speakers, and he commented that he was looking for speakers that were, "easy to drive". I realized that since I switched to ICEPower, this has not been an issue because into into 8 ohms both the bel cantos and Red Dragons bring 500W. They also run cool and can be left on all the time. Oh, and they sound fabulous!

I don't doubt it - but the Rotel RB-1092 also brings 500 wpc into 8 ohms. Are there good reasons to believe that the other amps mentioned above are superior?

I'm not disputing anything here, as I've never heard any of the amps mentioned, but I am wondering what the extra outlay buys you.

[cug]

I don't doubt it - but the Rotel RB-1092 also brings 500 wpc into 8 ohms. Are there good reasons to believe that the other amps mentioned above are superior?

If you spend more, you certainly here the money difference. If not, you wouldn't have spent the money, right?

[SteinigerGE]

I don't doubt it - but the Rotel RB-1092 also brings 500 wpc into 8 ohms. Are there good reasons to believe that the other amps mentioned above are superior?

I'm not disputing anything here, as I've never heard any of the amps mentioned, but I am wondering what the extra outlay buys you.

Wgriel,

Whether it be ICEPower amps, audiophile tweaks, or even B&W speakers, one could always ask the question what does the extra money buys you?

I cannot go into a fully technical discussion (it's not my area of expertise, and honestly, I don't really care) but to simplify, while ICEPower amps use the same main module, there are still many parts of the input and output stages that can be modified and will give the owner something extra. (Balanced vs. unbalanced, damping and case materials, other internal wiring, etc.) Designers can also impart "the house sound", so if I tell you I don't like the Rotel sound, then a Red Dragon implementation does have advantages for me.

I'm not sure which B&Ws you have, but a parallel would be for me to ask you whether your extra outlay of cash for an 803D really gained you something over the 803S? I think you would probably say yes, and I have no reason to refute that (whether I believe it or not). In the same way, I feel my Red Dragons were worth every penny of what I spent over the Rotel 1092.

[wgriel]

Wgriel,

Whether it be ICEPower amps, audiophile tweaks, or even B&W speakers, one could always ask the question what does the extra money buys you?

I cannot go into a fully technical discussion (it's not my area of expertise, and honestly, I don't really care) but to simplify, while ICEPower amps use the same main module, there are still many parts of the input and output stages that can be modified and will give the owner something extra. (Balanced vs. unbalanced, damping and case materials, other internal wiring, etc.) Designers can also impart "the house sound", so if I tell you I don't like the Rotel sound, then a Red Dragon implementation does have advantages for me.

Thanks SteinigerGE,

Please understand I was in no way meaning to generalize the issue of "what does the extra money buy you". I know full well that I've spent money on things that meant something to me but my wife thinks I'm crazy

I honestly didn't know if there were differences between the various ICEPower amps and how they sounded and was seeking information more than anything else. And based on what you've shared I can well imagine that their could be. What's more, if you are happy with the Red Dragons I respect that and certainly offer no criticism regarding your choice.

Bill

[SoundEngine355]

Kal Rubinson does, and he wrote about his experiences in Steroephile. Don't the bel cantos still drive some of the B&Ws in your multi-channel set up?

I had the bel canto REF 1000s with my 804S and was very happy with them until I heard the Red Dragon Leviathans that I have now. Through my upgrades to 803S and then to Verity Parsifal Ovations and also from an Arcam AVP700 and CD192 to SimAudio P-7 and SuperNova, I have still found no need to upgrade my Leviathan monoblocks. The Dragons aren't chaep, but compared to SS or tube amps with similar performance, they are a bargain!

I was having a discussion with a friend about his search for new speakers, and he commented that he was looking for speakers that were, "easy to drive". I realized that since I switched to ICEPower, this has not been an issue because into into 8 ohms both the bel cantos and Red Dragons bring 500W. They also run cool and can be left on all the time. Oh, and they sound fabulous!

The Bel Canto and Red Dragons are the same amplifier module both are the B&O 1000asp, they should sound 99% the same.

[SoundEngine355]

I don't doubt it - but the Rotel RB-1092 also brings 500 wpc into 8 ohms. Are there good reasons to believe that the other amps mentioned above are superior?

I'm not disputing anything here, as I've never heard any of the amps mentioned, but I am wondering what the extra outlay buys you.

Again the Rotels 1092's use the SAME amplifier module!