Denon AVR5308 and 802D's ???

[Edgeyboy]

Would the new Denon AVR 5308 be capable of properly driving a pair of 802D's in 2 channel mode ?

[Luke Skywalker]

Properly driving, no way :E .

Driving, maybe :Z

[Edgeyboy]

Do you think it could drive 803's OK ?

I guess for the 802D you would need their AVPA1HD and matching 10 channel power amp in biamp mode. :E

[Pedro]

Yeah the AVPA1HD could drive the 802D with great current when bridging. BUT will lack quality.

To the 802D, listening in stereo, would recomend: Krell EVO 402, McIntosh MC 501, Classe CA-M400, Marklevinson 432, Electrocompaniet AW400 etc...

Even the 803S wont be totaly driven by this receiver. This receiver will drive 805S, 704, in my opinion

[jericho]

Yeah the AVPA1HD could drive the 802D with great current when bridging. BUT will lack quality.

To the 802D, listening in stereo, would recomend: Krell EVO 402, McIntosh MC 501, Classe CA-M400, Marklevinson 432, Electrocompaniet AW400 etc...

Even the 803S wont be totaly driven by this receiver. This receiver will drive 805S, 704, in my opinion

I agree with Pedro, McIntosh 501 or Classé CAM-400 to drive them properly, if you like a lot of bass go with Krell

[WI Rotel]

R U nuts? That is like putting a polo diesel engine in a Veyron. Nothing less than a powerful dedicated amp will do, even better 2!

[Mark-n-b]

Yeah the AVPA1HD could drive the 802D with great current when bridging. BUT will lack quality.

To the 802D, listening in stereo, would recomend: Krell EVO 402, McIntosh MC 501, Classe CA-M400, Marklevinson 432, Electrocompaniet AW400 etc...

Even the 803S wont be totaly driven by this receiver. This receiver will drive 805S, 704, in my opinion

I agree with Pedro, McIntosh 501 or Classé CAM-400 to drive them properly, if you like a lot of bass go with Krell

Have you heard the AVP and POA driving the 802Ds then?

[Mig17]

Denon is miles behind Rotel in soundquality

[SPACEMANRICK]

Any comment on Richard Clark's contention that the importance of the amplifier is minimal if it is run below the clipping level. Would anyone on here be willing to take him up on his bet?

After doing more reading and research, would I be wiser to put $1,000 into sound treatments for the room than spending $10,000 on a better amplifier?

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

[cug]

Denon is miles behind Rotel in soundquality

Have you compared their high end stuff? Really? Blind? Okay, you can NOW maybe say, that for your taste, Denon is behind Rotel in sound quality.

There is no "absolute sound". There is just "absolute sound for the taste of the listener".

[kallagtunet]

After doing more reading and research, would I be wiser to put $1,000 into sound treatments for the room than spending $10,000 on a better amplifier?

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

Yes, Yes, Yes.

100 fold!

[Mig17]

1000$ for room treament

That never ends..........

[Mark-n-b]

Denon is miles behind Rotel in soundquality

I would put the Denon POA-S1 up against anything Rotel have made and expect it to outperform it as far as power and drive is concerned, and I reckon that it will hold it's own against Classe, Krell and the other high end amplifier manufacturers products. Personal listening tastes is not quantifiable and is simply down to the listener.

In America Denon choose not to release high end products - but that does not mean that they do not make high end audio products that cannot compete. See the DCD-SA1 and PMA-SA1 for more info!

POA-S1 owner review

[georgev]

Would the new Denon AVR 5308 be capable of properly driving a pair of 802D's in 2 channel mode ?

Back to the original question, It cannot drive them properly(functional word being "properly".
I was driving a pair of CDM9NT's with my 5308, and switched to first a proceed(made by Madrigal), power amp and then a Mark Levinson 332. There was a significant difference. I subsequently changed to a pair of 802's but never tried the Denon with them.

[cug]

Any comment on Richard Clark's contention that the importance of the amplifier is minimal if it is run below the clipping level. Would anyone on here be willing to take him up on his bet?

After doing more reading and research, would I be wiser to put $1,000 into sound treatments for the room than spending $10,000 on a better amplifier

The trick is: linear frequency response. The amplifiers are leveled (if necessary with an EQ) to have a linear frequency response or at least, the same frequency response.

Sound from the amp comes mostly from this (and from inability to drive certain speakers), so if you can level this, you won't hear a difference.

It gets really interesting with speakers that present a difficult load to the amplifier so it will not be able to respond properly in certain areas of the frequency band. As soon as you request a good SPL, an amplifier with a non-stable power supply might be driven in a range, where it can't handle the request for current on that load anymore - and that's where you start hearing differences.

I also don't give a **** when people claim to "hear" better 2D or 3D imaging with an amplifier that has a flat freq response. From the speaker? All the time! Maybe from other electronics too but mostly because they influence the linearity or the level. I'm pretty happy with my Rotel RA-1062, but I can hear differences - but only at levels where it falls short to provide enough current for the speakers. Not below that point. That's the only reason for me to get a bigger amp eventually. And maybe cooler look. :B

And, if you follow specs in the reviews out there, especially the measurements, whenever an amplifier sounds "warm" it has a drop in the higher frequencies. Whenever it sounds "airy, precise and fresh" to the reviewer, it is either a flat or has a slight bump in the higher freqs. Nothing that can't be corrected with an equalizer - if you really want that.

In my opinion, what you buy with a good amp is:

- the flat frequency response (aka sound)
- the ability to deliver enough current
- features
- look & feel

So, some AV receivers might not be able to drive some speakers, just because they can't keep up with the requirements of the speaker, especially if it has an impedance drop to a very low value. The 804S drops, but not as hard as for example the 802D which goes below 3 Ohm (Do I remember that correctly with 2.8 Ohm?). As far as I remember, the 804S goes down to 4 Ohm, so you might want an amplifier that provides stable power down to 4 Ohm. There was a discussion that people said, they wouldn't buy an amp that can't double the wattage into 4 Ohm, I wouldn't go that far, but values of 60W into 8 and 70W into 4 Ohm don't look good to me. I won't trust the power supply ...

Okay, just my 2c ...

[WI Rotel]

Here's the nitty gritty the denon will drive them and will drive them satisfactorily as long as your listening levels are low. If you like your music loud or if you are using them in an HT setup forget about it. The receiver simply does not have the juice to drive such a fairly inefficient speaker to significantly loud sound pressures without distorting, end of story.

[kallagtunet]

If the 5308 is able to deliver the current for 802D's impedance curve it will with its 150 Watts be able to drive the 802D up to 111/112 db before clipping, loud but not super loud. If you want to get to 115 db (consert hall level) you need 300 unclipped watts.

If i don't remember wrong the THX ultra spec requres the amp to be stable down to 3.2 ohm all chanels driven at once (Quite a tough reqirement) inn full rated power.

My recomondation is try it and if it not work by some monoblocks for the front speakers in addition :-)

[Mark-n-b]

...My recomondation is try it and if it not work by some monoblocks for the front speakers in addition :-)

Good advice, and in the mean time you could always bi-amp the fronts as long as you don't mind loosing the surround back channels.

[WI Rotel]

If the 5308 is able to deliver the current for 802D's impedance curve it will with its 150 Watts be able to drive the 802D up to 111/112 db before clipping, loud but not super loud. If you want to get to 115 db (consert hall level) you need 300 unclipped watts.

If i don't remember wrong the THX ultra spec requres the amp to be stable down to 3.2 ohm all chanels driven at once (Quite a tough reqirement) inn full rated power.

My recomondation is try it and if it not work by some monoblocks for the front speakers in addition :-)

True, but one small clarification, the 111-112dB you are reffering to is peak. Even at an avg 90db level (which is very, very loud) 120dB peaks are easy to come by in most music thus easily overburdening the amp. BTW, the THX specs are not 20-20 they are at 1 kHz!

[Mig17]

Krell Anthem Classe Bryston never make receivers :
That is the answer
Denon AVR is not good not bad

[cug]

Krell Anthem Classe Bryston never make receivers :
That is the answer
Denon AVR is not good not bad

Pffff. Marketing BS :Z

[cug]

True, but one small clarification, the 111-112dB you are reffering to is peak. Even at an avg 90db level (which is very, very loud) 120dB peaks are easy to come by in most music thus easily overburdening the amp. BTW, the THX specs are not 20-20 they are at 1 kHz!

Why should that be peak if the given rating is 150WPC continuous power into 8 Ohm 2 channels driven with 0.05% THD and common clipping definition is about 1% THD?

I don't think that this will be ANY problem! I'd give it a try.

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

Here is an interesting article on Stereophile that explains just why speakers can present such difficult loads for amplifiers and recievers. The graphs for the B&W 802 are scary! http://www.stereophile.com/reference/707heavy/

Geoff

[kallagtunet]

Hi,

Here is an interesting article on Stereophile that explains just why speakers can present such difficult loads for amplifiers and recievers. The graphs for the B&W 802 are scary! http://www.stereophile.com/reference/707heavy/

Geoff

Interesting read!