B&W 684 with Rotel Ra-05

[JaonL]

Please help me. I'm fairly new to this. I'm trying to set up a good stereo system. I would like to know if anyone has experience with the B&W 684. Is it a good all rounder for all sorts of music. Does it match with the Rotel Ra-05. I'm on the verge of purchasing the amp and speakers. Have heard the 685's which have great reviews. It seems to me to be a bit thin though or not enough bottem when i listned to some music on it. The 684's appear to solve this but i'm not sure if it sacrifices on top end. The 685 seems to be a little brighter then the 684 and the 684's seem a bit darker but I like the better base, but am not sure if this speaker is weaker at the top end.

I've not read any revies on the 684 and am desperate for some help. The room that it must go into is small to medium sized.

Thanks

[jack667]

Technically, the 684 is a 685 in a larger cabinet with an extra woofer. It has the same tweeter and midrange, so should sound very similar to 685, but with better ooommmph!

[bigburner]

Hi JaonL,

The Rotel RA-05 is rated at 40 watts x 2 into 8 ohms. The recommended amplifier power for the B&W 684 is 25 watts – 150 watts into 8 ohms.

I would speculate that the general opinion from members of this forum is that the RA-05 is underpowered to get the best from a pair of 684s.

If you are keen on integrated amps from Rotel then the RA-1070 would be a much better match for a pair of 684s. However if you only ever listen to music at a low to moderate volume then it's less of an issue.

I would spend a bit more now than waste money later by upgrading because of dissatisfaction, but that's easy for me to say!

Nigel.

[Briz vegas]

I can only relay a second hand experience. I know a guy who was keen on the 683 and tried it with basic Cambridge gear ie540 & 640 amps. He was a little dissappointed so he tried the smaller 600s. He found the 685 sounded the best with these smaller amps. The dealer recommended that he go with at least the 740 model if he wanted to run the bigger speakers in the 600 range.

In summary, you need to match the speaker with an amp that has sufficient power to run it well. 685 is a easier speaker to drive so you need less power in the amp. As you go up the range the speakers provide a more difficult load for the amp and it can stuggle with negative impacts on sound quality. The best sound for your dollar will only be achieved by trying a range of options at various volumes to deterimine how the combination works together. With luck a good dealer would know what gear has the best synergy and will be able to guide you.

If you budget is really tight you may be better off sticking with the 685 and driving it with something decent. By all reports, my friend included, the 685 has great bass driven by the right amp. Good reports were given on the 685 driven by a Cayin tube integrated amp for example- thats 70watts if I remember correctly, and the report was that it was sweet (although I strongly suspect good cables/interconnects were used in the demo - this can substantially improve the control that the amp has over the speakers and therefore the bass).

[audioqueso]

I would say not to be afraid of the small amp if it's from mid-grade level (Rotel). I just purchased a Denon Premium (Japan only) integrated amp (50watts at 8ohms) to power my Nautilus 805s for the time being, and it drives them surprisingly well. Only 50 watts. The recommended specs for the 805s are 50-120watts. I've driven them with 220watts, so I know what they sound like with power, but what I'm saying is that if I'm currently driving them with the minimal requirement, and I still find them amazing, I'm sure you'll enjoy the 684s with the RA-05.

My apartment is about 14x24, and at 1/4 of the max volume, it fills the room very loudly. So to my surprise, it's more about the quality and current of the amp, not just watts. Rotel always goes well with B&W.

I say go for it. I'm sure the RA-05 and B&W 684 will match well. Enjoy!

[JaonL]

Thanks guys for your response it is much appreciated. I've ordered the RA-05 with the B&W 684's. I went back to the dealership and had another listen and even though most of you say that I need a more powerful amp for this speaker, the sound was fine for me and I live in a townhouse complex so I will not be able to play these speakers at high volumes any way.

Thanks audioqueso for your answer. I am now more excited then ever to get my speakers and amp. The dealers says it should be here end of the week or early next week.

I will keep you all informed of how it goes.

[bigburner]

Thanks guys for your response it is much appreciated. I've ordered the RA-05 with the B&W 684's. I went back to the dealership and had another listen and even though most of you say that I need a more powerful amp for this speaker, the sound was fine for me and I live in a townhouse complex so I will not be able to play these speakers at high volumes any way.

Thanks audioqueso for your answer. I am now more excited then ever to get my speakers and amp. The dealers says it should be here end of the week or early next week.

I will keep you all informed of how it goes.

That goes against conventional wisdom, which is great to hear because conventional wisdom needs a smack in the nose occasionally!

[JaonL]

Guys I've recevied my amp RA-05 and am still waiting for my speakers B&W 684. I'm scared that I loose the sweet spot on these speakers with this amp which you all say is underpowered. On the other hand I felt the 685's were more brighter but a little thin on bottom end, when I audition at the dealer. I'm concerned that i'm making the incorrect choice. I've maxxed out on my budget so this is a big spend for me.

Guys can you explain to me why maybe the 685"s would have been a better choice for me. Will it be more musical with the RA-05. Also remember I live in a townhouse complex so I cant play at very high volumes. What do I loose in sound quality by having a underpowered amp.

Thanks
Jason

I like the fuller sound of the 684"S but scared its not as musical as the 685's.

[JaonL]

Guys i've spoken to my dealer, and he has agreed to allow me to upgrade the amp, if i'm not happy, to a RA06. Do you think that this will make a diiference to the sound quality of the B&W 684's.

[Briz vegas]

Your opinion is the only one that really matters here.

Our advice is based on our own experience (my friends experience in my case) and conventional wisdom but only you can comment on the synergy of all of the components together.

Your dealers upgrade policy is like insurance so it is good to know that you have something to fall back on.

Remember that you have heard this combo and enjoyed the sound. You have maxed out your budget so you may want to stop there unless you get it home and it sounds all wrong. Conventional wisdom says that the RA-06 will sound better but I found a tread saying the RA04 is better than the 05 as it has less circuitry to muck up the sound but you don't get a remote. http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630605

With hifi you can always spend more and chances are it will sound better - you just have to work out the level that you want to live with without having to live on bread for the next 6 months.

[JaonL]

Guys please help me. When I auditioned the 685's with the RA05 amp, i liked the sound but felt it lacked a little at the bottom end, almost like something was missing. When I listened to the 684's with the RA05, the bottom end sounded fuller but i lost the warmth and deteail that the 685's gave me. I have ordered the 684's and want to know if the ra06 would solve this problem, it been 70 watt per channel as opposed to 40.

I'm looking for a sound that is a combination of both, but the warmth and detail is important and I've not listened using the RA06 amp as the dealer does not have one in stock.

I'm scared that i'm going to end up with a dull and boring combination, maybe I should have chosen the b&w 685's, as everyone is raving about those speakers.

Any advice will really be appreciated.

[george_k]

Guys please help me. When I auditioned the 685's with the RA05 amp, i liked the sound but felt it lacked a little at the bottom end, almost like something was missing. When I listened to the 684's with the RA05, the bottom end sounded fuller but i lost the warmth and deteail that the 685's gave me. I have ordered the 684's and want to know if the ra06 would solve this problem, it been 70 watt per channel as opposed to 40.

I know this may seem like a bit of a tangent but have you considered a tube integrated? This will add the warmth, texture, detail your looking for.

[dknightd]

Your opinion is the only one that really matters here.

End of story. Take the time to decide what you like.

[Briz vegas]

Sorry if we have not been that helpful. Maybe someone hear has heard the RA06 and RA05 (getting this kind of response requires lots of luck - are you posting on the Rotel forum as well?), but even if they have it may not have been with the same CD player etc and of course it is the sum of the parts that you are interested in.

I can relate because I was never happy with my 705 until very recently - getting them to sound right took endless trial and error (and they were relegated to my surrounds 18 months ago - I was playing and stumbled on a combo that worked with them by chance)

Is there another Rotel/B&W dealer in the area that may carry both? You really have to put your ears in the same room as this amp to tell if it is right for what you want to achieve,

[Fotografics]

Having just recently bought a brace of 683s and an RA-05 I can confirm that the combination is divine! In my main rrom, 20' x 15' they sound magnificent with a transparency better than I expected.
I haven't yet cranked the volume anywhere near the maximum (my neighbours still talk to me and I want to keep it that way) and I'm more than happy with the output.

I know this is my first post but (a) I don't have any contact with Rotel or B&W and (b) don't have an RA-05 or pair of B&Ws for sale on ebay!

Just my , very contented, opinion.

[JaonL]

Thanks Fotografics for your post. Some people were saying that the RA-05 is underpowered for the 684's and even more so for the 683's. Your answer has reassurred me that it should be fine. I'm also a newbie and can't wait to hear my 684's in my room. I hope the sound is similar to what you are experiencing, because if this is the case then I should be more then happy with my purchase. I have heard people say that the 683's are more musical then the 684's so I really cant wait.

Will tell you how it goes, when I've everything up and running. So what music are you listening to on your new system?

Thanks
Jason

[Fotografics]

Everything...

I've even been getting out Cds I haven't listened to for years, just to see what I've been missing (I used to have a low-end Denon with Magnat speakers).

Dire Straits were so sweet it was almost tear-making, a bit of classical (Adagio for strings) had me walking with a limp and Sigur Ros was simply a trip.

I have no idea how "garage" "techno" or "hip-hop" would sound and, probably never will.

[audioqueso]

Jason,

Just to reiterate, it's been about a week since I hooked up my 805s to my Denon Premium PMA integrated amp. My 805s feed on power a lot more than the 600 series and so far I've been very happy. For the size of my living room, the amp is more than enough. Yes, I know more power can improve the 805 (as I've driven them before with 220 watts), but it doesn't mean it doesn't sound good now. With Fotographics supporting my assumption (based off of my own similar setup), I'm sure the RA-05 and 684 will sound good. Yes, it can sound better with more power, but that doesn't mean the RA-05 will make it sound bad. Let us know how it goes.

[JaonL]

I've received my speakers 684 and RA-05 amp. Sound is not good at low volumes, but once I turn the the dial up to 10 or 11 o'clock, the midrange and bottem end kicks in and it does sound nice. Overall sound is a bit bright.

Anyone have some experience with b&w 684's. Please tell me what you think of the sound.

Going to do some more listening tonght and will report back tommorrow.

[Briz vegas]

Play 'em for a week first. That gear has a bit of running in to do - sound will change

[JaonL]

Hi guys, my sound to me is still not so good. Has anyone else got experience with the 684's. I'm thinking that these speakers maybe were not a good purchase. It was a lot of money for me and i'm wandering if I wasted money.

My dealer said that next week he would come over to my place and listen to the sound and will try to help me out.

I'm so dissapointed, I was looking forward to that sweet sound. I do have the tv connected to the aux of my RA-05 and voices sound like they are comming through cheap speakers. Not strong and crisp at all. Softish, timid and high pitch.

The top end just sounds cheap to me.

[cug]

Hi guys, my sound to me is still not so good. Has anyone else got experience with the 684's. I'm thinking that these speakers maybe were not a good purchase. It was a lot of money for me and i'm wandering if I wasted money.

My dealer said that next week he would come over to my place and listen to the sound and will try to help me out.

I'm so dissapointed, I was looking forward to that sweet sound.

Did'nt you do a real listening test before buying the stuff?

Just curious ...

[Briz vegas]

Hi guys, my sound to me is still not so good. Has anyone else got experience with the 684's. I'm thinking that these speakers maybe were not a good purchase. It was a lot of money for me and i'm wandering if I wasted money.

My dealer said that next week he would come over to my place and listen to the sound and will try to help me out.

I'm so dissapointed, I was looking forward to that sweet sound.

Have a bit of a look around this forum. Getting the sound you want is not as straight forward as you might think.

for example

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28368&page=1&pp=35

I'm sure your dealer will be able to help, as was the case in the above thread.

[audioqueso]

No offense Jason, but you probably don't have it setup or caliberated correctly. Plus the highs need to burn in a bit. Just as an example, I went from Pioneer to Infinity RS-5s to JBL to Klipsch RF-5s to Infinity IL50s (all floorstanding towers) and accidently ran into the B&W 600 series 3. When I hooked them up at home, I was blown away and immediately thought I found the manufacturer that I have been looking for. From what I hear, the series 4 are better than series 3, so it may just be your setup or room conditions. Hope the dealer can help.

[bigburner]

Have a bit of a look around this forum. Getting the sound you want is not as straight forward as you might think.

Exactly.

[JaonL]

Since my dealer will swap out the equipment and help me till i'm happy, I would like to know if the Rotel RC-06 pre amp and a rotel RB-06 power amp (2*70 watts) would make a difference and which speaker whould you reccommend will match with this.

I know I was silly to purchase something without listening to them in my environment at home, but now its too late. So any imput you guys can give me will be much appreciated. Together with the info I get from you and the dealers help, i will try out new combinations at my home before I tell the dealer i'm happy.

[dknightd]

Since you do not tell us why the sound is not so good to you, it is difficult to help.

Since your dealer is willing to work with you, I'd pursue that. Since they are there, and can listen your system, and you can explain to them what you do not like, they are in a better place to advise you than we are.

It could be the speaker you chose doesn't work for you or your room. It could be that simply moving things around, and letting your ears adjust, will make you happy. Or it could be you were expecting something different and were disapointed you did not hear it.

There is nothing wrong with the equipment you selected. It should sound fine enough. Not perfect, but, a reasonable selection for the money you spent.

If you trust your dealer, work with them. If that doesn't work out, you could try a different dealer. Eventually if you are particular about how your
system sounds you are going to have to put some time and effort in. There is no easy, or right, answer - it will always be a compromise.

Hi guys, my sound to me is still not so good. Has anyone else got experience with the 684's. I'm thinking that these speakers maybe were not a good purchase. It was a lot of money for me and i'm wandering if I wasted money.

My dealer said that next week he would come over to my place and listen to the sound and will try to help me out.

I'm so dissapointed, I was looking forward to that sweet sound. I do have the tv connected to the aux of my RA-05 and voices sound like they are comming through cheap speakers. Not strong and crisp at all. Softish, timid and high pitch.

The top end just sounds cheap to me.

[JaonL]

I've connected my tv to the aux of the RA-05. Voices sound naisely, almost like they have a blocked nose. I've read in a magazine that those are the kind of speakers you must avoid. I did not spot this at the dealer, so this is my concern. Something is wrong in the trebble with these speakers.

Its probably why i'm not enjoying my sound. Anyone with experience of the 684's please comment. I'm looking for any advice.

[JaonL]

Guys the sound of the 684's has changed alot over the last week and is not as harsh anymore. (obviously it has been run in) My main purpose of purchaing the 684's together with the RA-05 was for good stereo for my cd's as well as to be able to watch tv with good stereo. I've connected the audio of the satellite decoder to the aux of the amp. So sound should be good, but this is not the case. Voices are soft and music is average. I would call the sound thin. The sound is far weaker then what my folks are getting with a Yamaha HT amp and mission floor standing speakers, its also weaker then my friends system who has a old Nad 3 channel stereo amp with 2 Tannoy floor standing speakers. He has the audio of the tv connected to the aux of the amp.

Do you think that the 40 watts of the amp has something to do with the poor sound from the satellite decoder? Or maybe it is that these 684 speakers are just a poor speaker for what I want to do with it.

It would be nice to watch MTV or VH1 with a good stereo setup, or even putting on the audio only music channels that we have in our satellite bouquet. Hey even watching a movie in good stereo would be great.

Any advice is always appreciated. I really want to get the setup correct so that I can sit back and enjoy music, be it from cd's or from sattellite.

[jack667]

I have the 683s. They are connected to my Advantage amp, which is connected directly to the TV. Movies and TV sound varies, especially with digital, sometimes the sound quality is bad, but if I pop on a DVD, the sound quality blows me away.

[Briz vegas]

How about this. If you live in a city like brisbane you will have about 3 600 series dealer, each offering different electronics. Spend a Saturday going from dealer to dealer listening to the 684 with different electronics. I would be surprised if you do not find one dealer that can make them sound pretty darn good. This will also give you an idea of what the speaker can sound like.

Also remember that it is not just your speakers you are hearing, its the system as a whole. Took me 30 seconds and a demo the other day to convince 2 "newbies" that cabling makes a difference. You also need to look at your room. Just as an experiment set up your gear in other rooms and note how the sound changes. Your experimenting with the TV is a start, just take trial and error process a bit further. Its harder on a budget but I am sure that you can get those speakers to sound sweet.

[audioqueso]

Jason,

Do you like the way your system sounds with CDs?
If you do, realize that the CDs are going to give you the best sound. So that should be your reference standard.

Are you using a DVD player to play your CDs? If you are, look up your tv guide and see if they are playing a movie soon that you happen to own on DVD as well. Watch the DVD first. Does it sound good or bad?
- If it sounds good, it may be your satellite receiver. Check to see if it has any audio settings and that everything is setup the way it should be.

However, if the DVD sounds bad, but the music CDs sound good, check that it's not the settings on the DVD player. The voices may sound thin because the DVD player is not sending the dialog properly to your speakers. Remember almost all DVDs are encoded for a center channel. You're using an integrated amp that simply takes a left and right channel. Your DVD player may have setting that will downmix the channels so that your two speakers get all the right information (as oppse of just receiving the information for channel left and right minus center which includes most of the dialog).

Another thing, keep in mind that if your CDs sounds good, it WILL sound better than your satellite tv at all times. So don't expect tv sound quality to be on par with your music because it's not of the same quality no matter what.

I don't think it's your speakers because you mentioned your friends setup with NAD and Tannoy speakers sounds good. You described your setup as 'thin'. His setup is pretty laid back compared to yours, and that would sound 'thinner' than your B&W and Rotel combo, so it sounds to me like it may just not be properly setup up in one area or another. I'm sure we can help you find a solution to your likings. Good luck.

[wgriel]

- If it sounds good, it may be your satellite receiver. Check to see if it has any audio settings and that everything is setup the way it should be.

This is good advice - for a while, my satellite box was only giving me a mono signal. It took me awhile to find that setting and change it.

[JaonL]

My dealer sent his technician to my place to come and listen to the sound. His conclusion was that the base is booming because the couch that I sit on is against the wall and the spekers are on either side of the tv, which is only a few metres in front of the listening position, and near the opposte wall. Therefore they are bring over the 685's with the stands for me to listen to. What do you guys think. I know these speakers got great reviews. I wonder though if these spekers will have enough bottem end for me to be a good all rounder, that can play all sorts of music.

Do you guys think that the RA-05 with the b&w 685's will be a good match? I am going to be using my cd sound as my reference standard, and if i get that sported out, i'll be happy.

[JaonL]

My dealer sent his technician to my place to come and listen to the sound. His conclusion was that the base is booming because the couch that I sit on is against the wall and the spekers are on either side of the tv, which is only a few metres in front of the listening position, and near the opposte wall. Therefore they are allowing me to collect the demo 685's with the stands for me to listen to. This will be done this weekend What do you guys think. I know these speakers got great reviews. I wonder though if these spekers will have enough bottem end for me to be a good all rounder, that can play all sorts of music.

Do you guys think that the RA-05 with the b&w 685's will be a good match? I am going to be using my cd sound as my reference standard, and if i get that sorted out, i'll be happy.

[audioqueso]

The 685 would be easier to drive with one less driver to feed. However, don't expect as much bass as the 684.

[Briz vegas]

Will there be enough bass. I can introduce you to a guy who plays bass and has literally 1,000s of CDs. He thinks the 685 has great bass. I can introduce you to another guy who heard the 685 at the same retailer who thinks it does not have enough. The second guy likes R&B.

If your room is reinforcing the bass to the point where it is boomy you can either treat the room or get the 685 and try that. If one does not work try the other.

Good luck with your experimenting.

[mthane]

Being a hifi lover for 25 years. I happened to have a pair of 683, 684 and 602s3. These are excellent speakers, definitely a keeper. Do urself a favour, get a proper cd player or dvd player to run as source. Get some descent cable or you can even try biwire. These speaker will review any weaklink and poor recording. 40w is really under power for 684 in my opinion but it depends on the enviroment. These babies need some room to breathe. For the bass, I never found any of them lacking or boomy. Even the 602 sound tight and punch above their weight, they sound much bigger than they look. The 600 series doesnt' generate miracle sound that you can touch them but for the price and performance. I think these are damn fine speaker with best bang for ur bucks. Superb for HT and excellent for Stereo when properly setup.

Try goto a dealer to audition the 684 again. Ask them to use some best amp and source that they have. Let us know what you think.

[JaonL]

Hi Everyone, just an update on my system. I've got the RA-05 amp and speakers were my problem. I purchased the 684's but for my room they seem to be to big. After they were run in the top end became less harsh and better, but on some music the base tends to boom. I think i'm getting standing waves, because i"ve a wall directly behind the listening postion and the speakers are only a few metres away not to far from opposie wall. My dealer has therefore agreed to swap the 684's for the 685's and i'm taking the proper stands that are supposed to be with them. Just waiting for the new stock to arrive.

Do you guys think this is a good choise. I listen to a wide variety of music.

[wgriel]

It's hard to say, but you might get an improvement in some ways. You'll definitely lose bass of course, but depending on your room you might gain better imaging and sound stage.

As I see it, your other choice was to try to fix the room. Sometimes that's not possible (I know all about that).

[tbyrne]

The foam plugs for the front and rear ports didn't help?

[JaonL]

Hi Guys, thanks so much for all your advice over the past. my dealer came over yesterday and brought a demo pair of 685's. they did a head to head comparrisson between the 684 and the 685. they pointed out that the 684's go lower then the 685's and that the sound is more complete to them, even though my room is not so huge.

I'm therefore keeping the 684's. Is there anything i can do to the room to increase the tightness of the base, because the 684 has a lot of it. i'm not complaining just want to see if i can improve my sound. the speakers are now run in and the top end is not harsh at all and very nice. the base however does not sound like i heard at the dealership in there demo room. Wat can i do to improve this, like putting foam pads against wall or getting thicker curtains. My base is probably been re enforced by the wall directly behind my listening postion. Can i put something on the wall to absorb or deaden the base.

if you look back a little you will see a description of my room.

Thanks
Jason

[Gwoardnog]

double post

[Gwoardnog]

bass traps, foam, there's DIY (google search for a few insulation recipes) stuff and retail. Bookshelves w/books for diffusing reflections, pictures on the wall, shag throw carpet, cloth furniture etc.

Before any of that though, have you tried some of the foam plugs? I currently run mine w/o sub with half plugs on the back port. When I run it with a sub I end up fully plugging the back and putting half plugs in on the front (it's rather a jury rigged sub setup, and I flip flop on liking it for music).

Pulling them out from the wall can help too.

[audioqueso]

You want to lessen your bass in total? If you want to just reduce the amount of bass, just use the controls from the pre-amp.

Or do you mean you want to tighten the bass? If you want to tighten it, then it's time to start some full out experiment, Jason. It's time to find out the best your speakers can sound in YOUR room. The dealership rooms are specifically setup up for best audio reproduction, your room is not. So find out what your room can do. Tell your significant other it's just a temporary experiment...

1) Ok, move everything in your room. Move any unnecessary coffee table, furniture, anything. Let it be so that you have your chair or sofa, and nothing in front except your speakers. Place your speakers a few feet from the wall on all sides. Make sure nothing big (a wall, a piece of furniture, etc) is around it. Give them room to breathe! If you have a center entertainment piece of furniture, move the speakers so they stand in front of it. You want nothing in between them, nothing next to them. Just let them breathe.

2) Now, if any of your side walls are glass (like a balcony door), cover them. If you don't have curtains, just tape some large towels. The point is for this test to block out any cold reflections. And large picture frames in your front of side walls, take them down.

3) What type of walls do you have? Brick, sheetrock, etc? Did your dealer help you with room treatment? Not just in the material, but how your room plays into this. Do you have carpet or a throw rug? If you have a throw rug, use it!

4) Do some listening. What do you hear? At this point, you should be hearing what your room (in its natural state) can do at its best for your speakers.

5) Is it boomy? Are the highs to sharp?
If it's too boomy, go to home depot and buy some fiberglass insulation rooms. Don't unroll them. Just place them on the corners of your room. How does it sound now? (I learned this from someone here, and it works) If it sounds great, this is a great indiction that buying bass traps will work for you.

6) Do you have a glass door or a large window? Did you place a towel? Try removing it and see how that effects the sound.

Once you find what sounds optimal for you, start place your furniture piece by piece back. You may find that a particular item may affect your sound more than it's worth having in that particular spot. Play with your room. See how everything plays into the sound. Remember that soundwaves are like ripples in a water. A break in a circle causes an effect to the whole soundwave.

Also, test them with and without the foam plugs. See what you like. The point is, if you can find the sound you like by step 4, then your speakers and gear are for you. You may be lucky and just need to do some treatment to your room to make it work for you. Good luck. :T