B&W 803D: 2 Channel Amplifier, Musical Fidelity???

[nick.h]

I currently have a pair of B&W 803D's which I am looking for a new 2 channel amplifier and cd player.

I am interested in the Musical Fidelity range and narrowed it down to two options:

1. A5 Integrated with A5 CD Player
2. A5CR and A5CR Pre Amp with A5 CD Player

The main difference from what I can see between the A5CR and A5int is the peak to peak power of 200 vs 75amps.

Which would you normally recommend with the 803D's?

[jack667]

What is the price difference between the pre/power combo over something like the int. kW550? I have heard the A5 integrated and the kW550, and the difference was outstanding. If you can stretch, I would definitely opt for the kW series.

[nick.h]

KW is way out of my price range.

[jack667]

Ah, I wasn't aware of the RRP of the pre/power combo... fair enough.

[Guy]

I have used the A5 power amp with my 802Ds. Have since upgraded to MAc 501s however I will say that the A5 power amp was truly amazing with my 802s.

[Pookie007]

I also have B&W 803 speakers and I think you will prefer them with the larger amp. I found my speakers sounded a little anemic with less amplification.

[uncle_dito]

I currently have a pair of B&W 803D's which I am looking for a new 2 channel amplifier and cd player.

I am interested in the Musical Fidelity range and narrowed it down to two options:

1. A5 Integrated with A5 CD Player
2. A5CR and A5CR Pre Amp with A5 CD Player

The main difference from what I can see between the A5CR and A5int is the peak to peak power of 200 vs 75amps.

Which would you normally recommend with the 803D's?

Hi Nick,
I am allways longing for the 803D (I have 804S but think 803D larger cabinet would deliver more weight at bass and mid frequencies, which I miss somehow in current model) but need overcame Wife´s concern on size. They are truly remarkable. Going back to your post, you might want to read the latest review from Hifi news in MF web:

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/reviews/a1008int.html

It features B&W803D, MF A1008 and 1008CD. MFA1008 is about the price of A5 CR Power + Pre. A1008CD is twice the cost of A5 CD.
I have both A1008 and A5 CR Power/pre. And A5 CD. Both Amplifiers are excellent, as well as the A5CD. I have not heard the A1008CD. The current spec for A5 CR Power is much better than A1008, A1008 is similar to A5 integrated in this respect. You may want to take a look at my impressions at:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=349135&postcount=537

in the MF forum.
I like A1008 sound a bit better (tube Preamp?). You might want to consider, MF comments it has the same sound as KW550 if the speakers are above 89db sensibility, and 803D are 90dB!
Good luck with your decision. BTW, lately I have seen great prices in ebay for A5CD/Pre/Power. I might be selling my A5 CR Pwr/pre, though not sure yet.

[Laurent]

Nick,

I have the A5 integrated amp as well as the A5 CD player in combination with B&W 803S. I can certainly recommend all these components as I am totally delighted. I did compare the 803S with the 803D with this set-up and decided to go for the 'S' model but that's another story.

As for the differences between the A5 integrated vs. pre-power I have pasted for your convenience the feedback that I received to the same question some time ago (full thread available here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...284#post322284)

the pre-power has separate boxes, so less chance of intereaction between the pre & power circuits.

the separate pre and power amps have their own power supplies so the draws on the power amp does not effect the performance of the pre.

the pre-power have choke regulation on their power supplies to regulate the power supplied and remove mains bourne intereference.

the pre-power comes with a moving coil phono stage vs the integrated that just has a moving magnet phono stage built in.

the pre can be placed in cabinet to the side and the power amp near the speakers.

the biggest difference with the power amp vs the integrated is the power amp has 8 sanken output devices per channel. the integrated has 4 per channel. lot more grunt on tap with the power amp ! the pre is a serious pre weighs on its own about the same as the integrated.

hope this helps.

Laurent

[WI Rotel]

Why not simply a rotel 1080 (1000 USD)? Aside from a few of the mega dollar power amps its the best 200watt amp in the market. No integrated amp from any manufacturer even comes close. Pair it with a decent pre of your choice and you will still have spent half of what a Mac of the same power rating will cost you. Will the mac sound better on your 803's? To some yes (slightly), to others it will be a wash. With the extra money you can buy an entire CD collection!

[linuxtx]

You might want to check out the latest review of the A1008int on the Musical Fidelity site... Specifically it is the A1008 Integrate and CDP with the 803D speakers. http://www.musicalfidelity.com/reviews/a1008int.html

[ChrisssB]

Why not simply a rotel 1080 (1000 USD)? Aside from a few of the mega dollar power amps its the best 200watt amp in the market. No integrated amp from any manufacturer even comes close. Pair it with a decent pre of your choice and you will still have spent half of what a Mac of the same power rating will cost you. Will the mac sound better on your 803's? To some yes (slightly), to others it will be a wash. With the extra money you can buy an entire CD collection!

Sorry but I have to disagree with that. There are integrateds that are truly great and far far far and above a rotel 1080.
2 examples come in my mind: Gryphon diablo check it here
and ASR emmiter akku I (or clear blue) check here

Surely, these integrateds cost waaaay more ( about 9000 euros give or take a few) than the rotel but their sonic qualities are AMAZING and worth every penny!

Best regards Chris

[linuxtx]

Why not simply a rotel 1080 (1000 USD)? Aside from a few of the mega dollar power amps its the best 200watt amp in the market. No integrated amp from any manufacturer even comes close. Pair it with a decent pre of your choice and you will still have spent half of what a Mac of the same power rating will cost you. Will the mac sound better on your 803's? To some yes (slightly), to others it will be a wash. With the extra money you can buy an entire CD collection!

I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is rubbish. I own the RB-991 powering my B&W N804s, and have listened extensively on my era Design 4s. While it is a very good amp for the price, it is clearly blown away by my Musical Fidelity A5 integrated. As the N804s are mainly used for HT (I rarely get to listen to much music on them these days), I use the Musical Fidelity to drive the D4s, but I did give it a good listen on my N804s. The difference was clear.

[WI Rotel]

Sorry but I have to disagree with that. There are integrateds that are truly great and far far far and above a rotel 1080.
2 examples come in my mind: Gryphon diablo check it here
and ASR emmiter akku I (or clear blue) check here

Surely, these integrateds cost waaaay more ( about 9000 euros give or take a few) than the rotel but their sonic qualities are AMAZING and worth every penny!

Best regards Chris

Ahem you have quote 2 amps that cost 9 times what the rotel cost. That is like comparing a steinway with a yamaha electric keyboard. BTW as we have discussed thoroughly before in these forums the difference will be slight if any! Our original poster cannot afford a midpriced amp why should he consider 2 amplifiers from 2 "esoteric" companies that sell maybe 10 amps a year. Your reasoning amounts to why buy a perfectly good new Honda that will run for 10 years when a bugatti is "better", DUH :roll: . To make the comparison more inane, in this case the bugatti would only be slightly (only downhill)faster than the honda :rofl: ! At least Classe, Krell and Mc Intosh are companies with a track record.

[jack667]

Why not simply a rotel 1080 (1000 USD)? Aside from a few of the mega dollar power amps its the best 200watt amp in the market. No integrated amp from any manufacturer even comes close. Pair it with a decent pre of your choice and you will still have spent half of what a Mac of the same power rating will cost you. Will the mac sound better on your 803's? To some yes (slightly), to others it will be a wash. With the extra money you can buy an entire CD collection!

Haha. Rubbish!

[WI Rotel]

I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is rubbish. I own the RB-991 powering my B&W N804s, and have listened extensively on my era Design 4s. While it is a very good amp for the price, it is clearly blown away by my Musical Fidelity A5 integrated. As the N804s are mainly used for HT (I rarely get to listen to much music on them these days), I use the Musical Fidelity to drive the D4s, but I did give it a good listen on my N804s. The difference was clear.

Read above :T

[WI Rotel]

Rubish, adj : British idiom to justify subsequent emmanation of irrelevant, esoteric observations, usually to their ultimate detriment.
Historical Quote, "Rubish, who does that little brown man in a loincloth think he is to challenge the british empire" :rofl:

[linuxtx]

No integrated amp from any manufacturer even comes close

The difference between the A5 integrated and the others mentioned, is the A5 integrated ($2750) is not too far off of the cost of an RB-1080 + RC-1082 pre ($2300). My point was that an integrated amp within a reasonable budget can compete very well with the RB-1080.

[WI Rotel]

The difference between the A5 integrated and the others mentioned, is the A5 integrated ($2750) is not too far off of the cost of an RB-1080 + RC-1082 pre ($2300). My point was that an integrated amp within a reasonable budget can compete very well with the RB-1080.

When you compare power output at rated distortion from 20-20K, you will quickly notice that there is no comparison.

http://www.rotel.com/reviews/pdfs/poweramps/rb1080_stereophile_Mar2k2.pdf

As you can see from the quoted article (and many others) Rotel's specs on the 1080 are superbly conservative. It can drive 2 ohm loads with a headroom at that level of 800 watts at less than 1 % THD! Integrateds can sound just fine but they can't compete with dedicated power amps at high levels, its just the nature of the beasts! All that juice would just interfere with the pre's cicuitry leading to increased distortion levels. Adcom had it right in the first place, you can integrate preamps and tuners very succesfully but highpower supplies and other more delicate electronics dont mix well for a reasonable price.

[linuxtx]

When you compare power output at rated distortion from 20-20K, you will quickly notice that there is no comparison.

http://www.rotel.com/reviews/pdfs/poweramps/rb1080_stereophile_Mar2k2.pdf

As you can see from the quoted article (and many others) Rotel's specs on the 1080 are superbly conservative. It can drive 2 ohm loads with a headroom at that level of 800 watts at less than 1 % THD! Integrateds can sound just fine but they can't compete with dedicated power amps at high levels, its just the nature of the beasts! All that juice would just interfere with the pre's cicuitry leading to increased distortion levels. Adcom had it right in the first place, you can integrate preamps and tuners very succesfully but highpower supplies and other more delicate electronics dont mix well for a reasonable price.

If you notice (from the review you mention), those numbers are peaks for 1 channel driven, and it is noted Rotel doesn't recommend the amp be used with loads dipping below 2ohms... If you look at the review I posted above for the A1008 integrated (similar to the A5 with the X-DACv8 built in):

"Rated at 250W/8ohm, the new A1008 integrated amplifier will maintain a continuous 260W/8ohm and 405W/4ohm with a healthy headroom reaching 315W, 550W, 860W and a full 1060W into 8, 4, 2, and 1ohm loads, respectively, under dynamic conditions."

[WI Rotel]

If you notice (from the review you mention), those numbers are peaks for 1 channel driven, and it is noted Rotel doesn't recommend the amp be used with loads dipping below 2ohms... If you look at the review I posted above for the A1008 integrated (similar to the A5 with the X-DACv8 built in):

"Rated at 250W/8ohm, the new A1008 integrated amplifier will maintain a continuous 260W/8ohm and 405W/4ohm with a healthy headroom reaching 315W, 550W, 860W and a full 1060W into 8, 4, 2, and 1ohm loads, respectively, under dynamic conditions."

Lets put it in easy terms. Most reviewers preffer creek audio over music fidelity in every time they go head to head. I've never heard anyone seriously considering a creek integrated to being the same league as one of the main rotel power amps.

[AlanB]

If you can get your hands on a Musical Fidelity Nu Vista M3 it blows the A5 away. They come up quite often for around $3000 which is the cost of a new A5.