802Ds "power hungry"?

[jack d]

I've heard it said many times that the 802Ds are power hungry. Why would that be given that they are very efficient speakers?

The reason I ask is that in my own recent experience upgrading from an Anthem MCA 50 driving 5 speakers, including the 802Ds, to a Mac 402 dedicated to the 802Ds there was a big difference. It opened up the sound stage impressively. I do not know, however, if this is the result of having the Mac quality/sound or the fact that the Mac provides a lot more power to the 802Ds than the Anthem (which is rated at 225 wpc) could do given that it was driving five speakers.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[sikoniko]

Would you care to give more information on the changes you have noticed? I am hoping to upgrade my amp in the next couple months for my N802's.

[jack d]

Would you care to give more information on the changes you have noticed? I am hoping to upgrade my amp in the next couple months for my N802's.

Well I'm not very good at describing sound quality but the main thing that I noticed was that the sound stage is larger and fuller. It seems to fill the space more than it did before. There is probably a bit more clarity across the frequency range as well. Additionally there seems to be more "presence" to the sound; I feel more now than with the Anthem that the musicians are in the room.

[Josh]

The power is part of it. However, most of what you are hearing is the quality difference between the Anthem and McIntosh. They really cannot be compared as they are not in the same class. The 402 is a huge step up.

[Kal Rubinson]

The reason? From JA's measurement commentary associated with my review, he mentions that the "B&W's impedance plot (fig.1) reveals the speaker to be moderately difficult to drive, with a magnitude that drops to 3 ohms throughout the upper bass and an awkward combination of 4 ohms and –50° electrical phase angle at 60Hz. In addition,....." See full review/comments/measurements at http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/1205bw/

Kal

[jim777]

BTW, did you use the 4ohm tap or the 8ohm tap? Mac suggests the 4ohm tap for the 802D's (for the same reason Kal just posted) unless you prefer the sound of the 8ohm tap of course. PS You will have to adjust your speaker levels (volume) in your processor if you switch between taps.

Have fun with your new MC402, I hope to have an amp like that some day

Anyway, in the mean time, I'm having plenty of fun with my MA6500 :T

[jack d]

The reason? From JA's measurement commentary associated with my review, he mentions that the "B&W's impedance plot (fig.1) reveals the speaker to be moderately difficult to drive, with a magnitude that drops to 3 ohms throughout the upper bass and an awkward combination of 4 ohms and –50° electrical phase angle at 60Hz. In addition,....." See full review/comments/measurements at http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/1205bw/

Kal

Kal,
Thanks for that. I had never read your article on the 802Ds which was a fun read.

[jack d]

BTW, did you use the 4ohm tap or the 8ohm tap? Mac suggests the 4ohm tap for the 802D's (for the same reason Kal just posted) unless you prefer the sound of the 8ohm tap of course. PS You will have to adjust your speaker levels (volume) in your processor if you switch between taps.

Have fun with your new MC402, I hope to have an amp like that some day

Anyway, in the mean time, I'm having plenty of fun with my MA6500 :T

I started out with the 8 ohm tap and was not that impressed in the short time I listened to it. After I connected the 802Ds to the 4 ohm taps, however, is when I decided that I wasn't going to part with the 402.

BTW: While the Mac rep who participates on this site recommened the 4 ohm taps with the 802Ds it was reported by someone in one of the threads here that BW recommended using the 8 ohm taps. Go figure.

[Josh]

I started out with the 8 ohm tap and was not that impressed in the short time I listened to it. After I connected the 802Ds to the 4 ohm taps, however, is when I decided that I wasn't going to part with the 402.

BTW: While the Mac rep who participates on this site recommened the 4 ohm taps with the 802Ds it was reported by someone in one of the threads here that BW recommended using the 8 ohm taps. Go figure.

In my experience with B&Ws on McIntosh amps (M801s, N802s, 800Ds) the 4 ohm tap typically sounds quite a bit better with deeper bass and more accurate mids and highs.

BTW, if your 402 is new, you will be amazed how much better it sounds after it has about 100 hours of real play time on it.

[jack d]

In my experience with B&Ws on McIntosh amps (M801s, N802s, 800Ds) the 4 ohm tap typically sounds quite a bit better with deeper bass and more accurate mids and highs.

BTW, if your 402 is new, you will be amazed how much better it sounds after it has about 100 hours of real play time on it.

Well my limited experience is similar to yours but I noticed on the threads around here that some people like the sound with the 8 ohm taps. Odd. To me there is no comparison, the 4 ohm wins without a doubt.

The 402 is going to get better with time?! Wow that is something to look forward to with joy.

[Pieter Stolk]

Other (pre) amps on B&W 802D

Hi,

Interesting subject! This year maybe I will buy a pair of 802D's. I am still seaching for a good pre-amp and power amps. On my shortlist are: Pass labs X2.5 pre and x250.5 power amp or Bryston BP26 pre and 2x 4BSST or 2x 7BSST power amps. Has anybody heard these combinations and/or campared them with eachother?

I am looking forward for reply's!

Pieter Stolk

[Josh]

Well my limited experience is similar to yours but I noticed on the threads around here that some people like the sound with the 8 ohm taps. Odd. To me there is no comparison, the 4 ohm wins without a doubt.

The 402 is going to get better with time?! Wow that is something to look forward to with joy.

Some people have different standards for the way things should sound, so you will always see conflicting opinions about anything audio related. I agree with you though, the difference is not small, but the 8 ohm tap may mimic the type of sound they may have been use to hearing on a previous setup.

Yes! Just wait. It took several months for my 501s to really break-in and open up. When they did, the improvement was well worth the wait. I've seen quite a few people test a new amp, decide they don't like it and sell it before they've even got a few hours on them. In reality, they never really "heard" it to begin with.

[Pieter Stolk]

Other amps on 802D

Hi,

Interesting subject! This year maybe I will buy a pair of 802D's. I am still seaching for a good pre-amp and power amps. On my shortlist are: Pass labs X2.5 pre and x250.5 power amp or Bryston BP26 pre and 2x 4BSST or 2x 7BSST power amps. Has anybody heard these combinations and/or campared them with eachother?

I am looking forward for reply's!

Pieter Stolk

[jack d]

Some people have different standards for the way things should sound, so you will always see conflicting opinions about anything audio related. I agree with you though, the difference is not small, but the 8 ohm tap may mimic the type of sound they may have been use to hearing on a previous setup.

Yes! Just wait. It took several months for my 501s to really break-in and open up. When they did, the improvement was well worth the wait. I've seen quite a few people test a new amp, decide they don't like it and sell it before they've even got a few hours on them. In reality, they never really "heard" it to begin with.

Oh so you have the 501s. Tell you the truth now that I have had my Mac revelation experience I'm debating what I should do for my center (HTM1D) and surrounds (804Ss). I haven't really done much multi channel listening with my current Mac/Anthem set up since I just recently got the Mac but I'm concerned that the difference in the two amps will have a negative effect on surround music listening. For movies I've noticed much more of a surround effect but I assume that is just because the Anthem can push more power to the middle and surrounds with the Mac driving the L/R. I haven't noticed any sonic imbalances but it might not be the same with multi channel music.

In my initial wandering around the Mac site I did not find a suitable solution if I want to fill out the other three speakers with Mac amplification. It seems excessive to go with 501s. They don't make a three channel. The 7 channel 207 also seems a bit of overkill. I suppose with the 207 I could passively bi amp the center and surrounds to get a bit more head room. Heck I don't know what I should do....

[jack d]

Hi,

Interesting subject! This year maybe I will buy a pair of 802D's. I am still seaching for a good pre-amp and power amps. On my shortlist are: Pass labs X2.5 pre and x250.5 power amp or Bryston BP26 pre and 2x 4BSST or 2x 7BSST power amps. Has anybody heard these combinations and/or campared them with eachother?

I am looking forward for reply's!

Pieter Stolk

There is an entire thread on amps that create a "revelation" with BWs in this forum. Check it out.

[Josh]

Oh so you have the 501s. Tell you the truth now that I have had my Mac revelation experience I'm debating what I should do for my center (HTM1D) and surrounds (804Ss). I haven't really done much multi channel listening with my current Mac/Anthem set up since I just recently got the Mac but I'm concerned that the difference in the two amps will have a negative effect on surround music listening. For movies I've noticed much more of a surround effect but I assume that is just because the Anthem can push more power to the middle and surrounds with the Mac driving the L/R. I haven't noticed any sonic imbalances but it might not be the same with multi channel music.

In my initial wandering around the Mac site I did not find a suitable solution if I want to fill out the other three speakers with Mac amplification. It seems excessive to go with 501s. They don't make a three channel. The 7 channel 207 also seems a bit of overkill. I suppose with the 207 I could passively bi amp the center and surrounds to get a bit more head room. Heck I don't know what I should do....

The 207 is the easiest and what I run in one of my setups. The other option, though expensive, is 3 501s across the front and the 402 for the rear.

[tboooe]

I had the 802d and I did not find them power hungry. Yes the impedance drops but if you are not listening at absurd levels, you dont need a huge amp. I know people using low powered tube amps with the 802d and it sounds great. I would go for quality of power over quantity of power.

[jack d]

I had the 802d and I did not find them power hungry. Yes the impedance drops but if you are not listening at absurd levels, you dont need a huge amp. I know people using low powered tube amps with the 802d and it sounds great. I would go for quality of power over quantity of power.

Well I guess I got a boost in both quality and power given that I upgraded to the MC402 from the Anthem. I don't listen at very high dbs (mostly jazz) but, as I noted before, I did find a big improvement in SQ. I suppose it is primarily related to the jump to the Mac. I guess it would be interesting to try the MC207 with my set up and see with fewer wpc how the sound would compare to the MC402.

[caleb]

Hi,

Interesting subject! This year maybe I will buy a pair of 802D's. I am still seaching for a good pre-amp and power amps. On my shortlist are: Pass labs X2.5 pre and x250.5 power amp or Bryston BP26 pre and 2x 4BSST or 2x 7BSST power amps. Has anybody heard these combinations and/or campared them with eachother?

I am looking forward for reply's!

Pieter Stolk

Hi Peter,

I had the 802/Brystom 7B SST combination last year before changing to 800Ds.

My front end however was Tag McLaren AV32DP.

I was EXTREMELY pleased with the results - the 802s certainly got up and danced with the 7B SST driving them.

The results with my 800Ds are equally impressive.

Dont forget the 20 year warranty with the Brystons is also a good feature.

[johan]

caleb,

Can you describe differences between 802 - 800. Especially in the bass.

Thanks,
Johan.

[tboooe]

Hi,

Interesting subject! This year maybe I will buy a pair of 802D's. I am still seaching for a good pre-amp and power amps. On my shortlist are: Pass labs X2.5 pre and x250.5 power amp or Bryston BP26 pre and 2x 4BSST or 2x 7BSST power amps. Has anybody heard these combinations and/or campared them with eachother?

I am looking forward for reply's!

Pieter Stolk

pieter, i have the pass xa160 monoblocks. I think pass amps are one of the best out there. I love their combination of sweetness and drive. you get the best of tubes and ss with pass, not to mention they look great and have great customer service.

[caleb]

caleb,

Can you describe differences between 802 - 800. Especially in the bass.

Thanks,
Johan.

Hi Johan,

I am not a technocrat, nor do I have the "golden ears" but in my opinion the bass went deeper and has more punch and slam in the 800Ds compared with the 802s.

Hope this helps.

[Pieter Stolk]

Hi Peter,

I had the 802/Brystom 7B SST combination last year before changing to 800Ds.

My front end however was Tag McLaren AV32DP.

I was EXTREMELY pleased with the results - the 802s certainly got up and danced with the 7B SST driving them.

The results with my 800Ds are equally impressive.

Dont forget the 20 year warranty with the Brystons is also a good feature.

Hi Caleb,

Thx for your reply! Is there a reason you chose for the McLaren preamp and not for for example the Bryston bp-26 pre-amp? Have you ever heard 802D and Pass Labs?

[Pieter Stolk]

pieter, i have the pass xa160 monoblocks. I think pass amps are one of the best out there. I love their combination of sweetness and drive. you get the best of tubes and ss with pass, not to mention they look great and have great customer service.

Hi tboooe,

Do you have also use Pass Labs pre-amp? Do you have a 802D Which cables?

Thx, Pieter

[tboooe]

pieter, no I do not have the pass preamp though I did consider it. The pass pres did not offer the features I wanted. My biggest complaint is the lack of resolution in the volume control. Right now I have the Classe CP-700 preamp. In terms of features it is fantastic. The sound is pretty good, very smooth. However, I am looking to chagne to a tube preamp. The ones on my shortlist are Einstein The Tube, BAT VK-52se, ARC Ref 3. I heard the Einstein with my Pass and it sounded amazing. The midrange was so seductive and emotional.

I used to own the 802d but has since moved on though I still own the 601s3 in my bedroom.

As for cables, for fear of being banned from this forum, please send me a PM and I will gladly let you know which ones I used and tested in my system.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

[caleb]

Hi Caleb,

Thx for your reply! Is there a reason you chose for the McLaren preamp and not for for example the Bryston bp-26 pre-amp? Have you ever heard 802D and Pass Labs?

Hi Pieter,
It was the other way round actually.
My original setup was TAG processor with Tag DVD player, and TAG 250x5 power amp.

When I realised that the power amp was not giving me the levels and dynamics that I knew the 802s could give - I upgraded my fromtws to & B SST and let the 250x3 do the honours for front anf rears.

No I have not listened to the Pass Labs.