Classe will charge $25,000 for their new HT pre/pro the SSP-900

[Jeff]

I love my B&W Nautilus 802’s and HTM1 center. I find myself thoroughly engrossed with my HT experience. It was my hope, over the next year, to invest in a world class, no holds bar HT pre/pro.

I had heard Classe is planning to release a new HT pre/pro. This was pretty exciting. I knew the price would likely be a little painful, but I was willing to get a little crazy to achieve my goal.

I then heard the price. $25,000! Classe, let me say first and foremost, I’m profoundly disappointed. Your current flagship HT processor the SSP-600 costs $6,500. I thought maybe, if there was a large increase your next flag ship HT pre/pro, would cost perhaps $9,999 (as you can see, I’m getting use to the type of price increases we see in high end audio). But $25,000. ARE YOU NUTS! :rofl:

Is there any man, woman or child amongst us who would seriously consider spending this type of money on an HT pre/pro? To my knowledge, no member of this site owns a Levinson Model 30 or a Meridian 861v4. But there are members of this sight who own the very best B&W speakers and feel good about. After all, they are lifetime speakers. In 20 years time, their grand kids will come to their house and see grand pa’s funny looking speakers. An in that time they will still be world class speakers. In 20 years time the SSP-900 will be as obsolete as a 20 year old computer.

Ok, so I’m not a happy camper. I love camping and I love audio. But a $25,000 HT pre/pro is a cold slap in the face. May of us are truly blessed to have a few dollars in the bank. It’s because we don’t make purchases like this, that we have those few extra dollars.

Jeff

[Audiophiliac]

If you dont think its worth it, then dont buy it. Period. I am sure they will sell as many as they need too. Most people dont think a new Ferrari is worth $250,000 or more either. But they sell more and more every year.

[Kal Rubinson]

Is there any man, woman or child amongst us who would seriously consider spending this type of money on an HT pre/pro? To my knowledge, no member of this site owns a Levinson Model 30 or a Meridian 861v4.

Well, I own a Ref 861v4.2 and my son-in-law has the Levinson 40 (which is what I think you meant). People do buy them.

Kal

[sikoniko]

I asked Andrew Ward about this a month or more back. He said this model is completely upgradeable, like a PC. It comes with a Gennum scaler, like the anthem D2, but the board is removeable, and can be upgraded as new technology (such as hdmi 1.3) comes along. He also said the analog section is upgradeable, so they see it as a chasis you buy now, and upgrade the innards as technology changes/improves.

My wife would kill me if I got that instead of a new car, but the rich need toys too, right?

[Kal Rubinson]

I asked Andrew Ward about this a month or more back. He said this model is completely upgradeable, like a PC. It comes with a Gennum scaler, like the anthem D2, but the board is removeable, and can be upgraded as new technology (such as hdmi 1.3) comes along. He also said the analog section is upgradeable, so they see it as a chasis you buy now, and upgrade the innards as technology changes/improves.

And that's the attraction of the Meridian Ref 861. It has been in my family for almost 10years and upgraded twice. If Classe is fully committed to this approach (and is less doctrinaire than Meridian), I applaud it.

Kal

[Eliav]

I love my B&W Nautilus 802’s and HTM1 center. I find myself thoroughly engrossed with my HT experience. It was my hope, over the next year, to invest in a world class, no holds bar HT pre/pro.

I had heard Classe is planning to release a new HT pre/pro. This was pretty exciting. I knew the price would likely be a little painful, but I was willing to get a little crazy to achieve my goal.

I then heard the price. $25,000! Classe, let me say first and foremost, I’m profoundly disappointed. Your current flagship HT processor the SSP-600 costs $6,500. I thought maybe, if there was a large increase your next flag ship HT pre/pro, would cost perhaps $9,999 (as you can see, I’m getting use to the type of price increases we see in high end audio). But $25,000. ARE YOU NUTS! :rofl:

Is there any man, woman or child amongst us who would seriously consider spending this type of money on an HT pre/pro? To my knowledge, no member of this site owns a Levinson Model 30 or a Meridian 861v4. But there are members of this sight who own the very best B&W speakers and feel good about. After all, they are lifetime speakers. In 20 years time, their grand kids will come to their house and see grand pa’s funny looking speakers. An in that time they will still be world class speakers. In 20 years time the SSP-900 will be as obsolete as a 20 year old computer.

Ok, so I’m not a happy camper. I love camping and I love audio. But a $25,000 HT pre/pro is a cold slap in the face. May of us are truly blessed to have a few dollars in the bank. It’s because we don’t make purchases like this, that we have those few extra dollars.

Jeff

Jeff
if you ask "outsiders" - people not involved with the Hi-Fi thing, they will tell you that the entire "cult" we worship is just insane, my friends for example, did not believe when they heard how much I paid for my system, and dont get me wrong, most of them CAN afford it, it is the concept of spending so much money on stereo gear that looks bizzare in their eyes.
Obviously It is all a matter of personal preference. some will spend 250,000$ on an Aston-Martin, some spend 9500$ for a pair of speaker cables ( come on, it is just a metal cable after all, right ?), some pay 40,000$ for power amps ( are they really so much better than a 18,000$ or 10,000$ ones ?) and the list goes on and on.....
And so my friend,you will be surprised how many will by the new Classe product.
Regards
Eliav

[Jeff]

It is as I feared, you have all been assimilated. You are Borg! For those of you who don’t know, it’s a quote from Star Trek.

Audiophiliac, Ferrari, now were talking. :driving: I’m personally in love with the looks of the Ferrari Enzo. New they sold for $650,000. They now sell for over $1,000,000 last I checked. Exotic cars have a larger cult following. I would think most of the truly rich own an automobile.
Why not a Ferrari?

Hi Kal, given your profession I would expect nothing but the best.
I congratulate you on your Meridian. ;x( If you had a Phillips, your fans would be bewildered.

Sikonico, I glad to see the unit has a first rate scaler. But the Anthem D2 with the same scaler is only a fraction of the price. I'm anticipating what the reviews will be on their video side. :tv:

There are times when I think the high end audio mfr’s think, if we charge more for a product, the public will think it’s really good. After all, performance is price based, right? We all know that answer.

Wasn’t it a couple editions ago where Stereophile magazine reviewed a $50,000 CD player where the bench test revealed fundamental problems in its design and performance? Was it worth 50k, no. Is it worth 5k to 10K, perhaps. Audiophiles know there are many fine CD players in that price range.

My disappointment is this. When your current flag ship HT pre/pro sells for $6,500, and it’s a good unit. Now your new model is nearly FOUR times more expensive. Most of your adoring public will be in disbelief, disappointed and disenfranchised. Perhaps the new Levinson Model 41 with 1.3 HDMI will be priced at $110,000. :rant:

I know the rich must have their toys. I think I’ll go down stairs and take my chill pill and have some 12 year old scotch. I’ll be fine and happy. Yes, happy, that’s me. 8x)

[Race Car Driver]

Ill join ya for that scotch....

[Glen B]

There's nothing wrong with raising your game, but I think Classe has probably lost as much of their fan base as they have gained with the Delta series, judging by some of the comments I've seen at other forums. Classe was always viewed by many as THE affordable alternative to Levinson, Krell, etc. until the arrival of the Delta line. Now they're about to take things to a whole new level with the SSP-900.

[Kobus]

I am with you Jeff.

Kobus

[Kal Rubinson]

Hi Kal, given your profession I would expect nothing but the best.I congratulate you on your Meridian. ;x( If you had a Phillips, your fans would be bewildered.

Actually, I got the Meridian used from my son-in-law when he moved on to the Levinson And I do still have a Philips SACD1000 which has just been refurbished and reinvigorated by Alex Peychev of APL. I have a wide range of selections, not all of them expensive.

Kal

[Fraise]

There's nothing wrong with raising your game, but I think Classe has probably lost as much of their fan base as they have gained with the Delta series, judging by some of the comments I've seen at other forums. Classe was always viewed by many as THE affordable alternative to Levinson, Krell, etc. until the arrival of the Delta line. Now they're about to take things to a whole new level with the SSP-900.

I think thats part of classe's new strategy. they want to be on the same level as levinson and krell and as such have priced themselves accordingly. I can't say whether or not i agree with this strategy because although i like the new delta line, i cant say i see where the price increase is justified.

[gross30]

In the $25 k price range, there are some incredible pieces of HT pre/pro equipment out there. All the high-end mags with the reviews show some amazing technology and equipment. Along with the price. If I could afford a $25 K unit, I would jump on that bandwagon in a heartbeat. If the pre/pro is $25 K, than the monoblocks and speakers would have to be $40 K and $80 K respectively. Now we have a reference system taking shape :T

[Fraise]

In the $25 k price range, there are some incredible pieces of HT pre/pro equipment out there. All the high-end mags with the reviews show some amazing technology and equipment. Along with the price. If I could afford a $25 K unit, I would jump on that bandwagon in a heartbeat. If the pre/pro is $25 K, than the monoblocks and speakers would have to be $40 K and $80 K respectively. Now we have a reference system taking shape :T

speaking of reference systems. i do think it would be a good idea if the preamp is going to be $25,000 then why not brand it as the Omega processor instead of bundling it into the delta line. anyone else agree?

[Glen B]

speaking of reference systems. i do think it would be a good idea if the preamp is going to be $25,000 then why not brand it as the Omega processor instead of bundling it into the delta line. anyone else agree?

The Omega line is apparently geared toward the finest in 2-channel reproduction, while the Delta line is intended for both 2-channel and multichannel/HT. That could be why they aren't branding the SSP-900 an Omega product.

[Fraise]

The Omega line is apparently geared toward the finest in 2-channel reproduction, while the Delta line is intended for both 2-channel and multichannel/HT. That could be why they aren't branding the SSP-900 an Omega product.

thats true. also i guess the delta line gets more exposure than the omega line. It just seems pretty expensive to be in the delta line. kinda like an $80,000 volkswagen.

[Jeff]

I would have to agree with Fraise. The Omega is the best Classe has to offer whether it's amps, cd players or pre amps. If the SSP-900 is the very best Classe has to offer on the HT level, it should go Omega. I'm sure they've discussed this at Classe.

Or, they may be still working on the Omega HT Pre to be released before next Christmas. Of course the unit would be priced accordingly.

[gross30]

I would agree also, if the SSP-900 is their flagship processor, it should be aptly named. Maybe they are secretly working on a Omega pre/pro for release in the future. Time will tell I guess. If the SSP-900 goes under the Delta line at $25 K , you can just imagine the Omega pre/pro's price range. OUCH !!

[chinets]

25K for that Classe HT Pre/pro: cheap!! :T

If it stands up to it's intent and actual performance, then the price would be just that! :E

You have many BMW cars out there that are affordable, but once you have an extra surplus $$$$ and want to splurge on something out of this world then you will jump to the M series immediately ,but you will have to pay a premium to play with expensive,Technological superior and serious toys..right?
That extra cash is for all the high tech equipment under the bonnet ,and all the advance material and gadgets for a high performance machine ;x(

If it does what it is suppose to do ,and you are satisfied with it, then 25K is the price!! " The Price is Right" if it outperforms all the rest..Right? :W Classe will always have a buyer that has extra $$$$ to play with,and thinks the price is well worth it! 8)

My 2 cents,
Cheers!

[Rolex]

As others have pointed out, Classe has tried to up the standards of their product and compete with the likes of Levinson and Krell.

Sony has a $19,000 dollar cd player. If someone makes it, people will buy it. There are many, many people in this world that have the luxury of money being no object.

[sikoniko]

basic marketing:

4P's:

Price
Product
Place
Promotion

Price can signify prestige.

[gross30]

Price can signify prestige:quote Sikoniko. Well put. Whether it is a $300,000 K reference system, or a $5000 K starter system, it takes all kinds. I don't think any different of anyone with either. I'm sure anyone would be envious of the reference system, and would in no doubt have their own if affordable. In this crazy hobby there is a large variance with which to choose from, pending the pocketbook of course. I just happen to be one of those guys who enjoys my hobby and has a great time with it. Its all about the movies and music and I'm enjoying every aspect of it :T

[Ted]

Any hobby or interest you get into is going to have extremes. I have to agree, audio equipment is crazy as far as price is concerned, but that's life. I have no idea the amount of cost of development of equipment, but I imagine it might be considerable, so I can see how it can happen.
Previous to audio and still now one of my other passions is cycling. I used to work in a bike shop and people would come in and look at a $500 bike and say "That much, it is just a bike!" and I'd think "I have parts on my bike worth more than $500, let alone the whole bike". The point is, the technology in the materials is incredible, but it costs in the end!
There have been some car references before, but here is another. In my opinion, I think Porsche makes wonderful cars, some of the best and if I could pick any one car, it would be a ;x( 911. But, Ferrari is on just a slightly higher level. What does Porsche do, they go all out and produce the Carrera GT, up there in that supercar catagory, even though they may not been known for supercars, they proved they can up their game (similar to how they did back with the 959 years ago).
Like I said, most hobbies/interests have potential for high prices, look at golf, I can't believe what people pay to play that game (no offense all you golfers out there ops:, don't kill me! :bash: ). You can play at the local public course, but a lot of people feel they have to pay more and play at exclusive courses.
Back to audio: Classe, wants to up their game and charge $25,000 for equipment. If the equipment is on par with other brands equipment in that price-range, good for them, hopefully they are raising their own expectations and thus their product. Since I am newer to the higher end audio world, I imagine it is similar to other industires that have the trickle down effect and in a few years (or even less sometimes) models down the line benefit from the top of the line. Can't bite off $25,000, wait a while and chances are you can still get a piece of that technology at a lesser price (of course, maybe there will be something new by then too).
Sorry, I rambled, but anything you get into is going to cost one way or another, you just have to stick to your comfort range.

Good for you Classe, don't be satisfied with your current levels, up your game! :T

-My long-winded 2 cents
Ted

[Lex]

for 25 grand, it should be more than upgradable, built like a PC, it should come with a living breathing technician! My gosh. 25 grand I can see for the most essoteric speakers, that have heart and soul poured into them, but let's face it, there is only so much you can do with a pre-pro, no?

I'll keep my MC-12 thanks.

[chinets]

Here ,Here Ted!
Cheers

[RNKC]

There's nothing wrong with charging very high prices for very high-end equipment. It happens all the time. The rest of us though, just have to wait a few years for this stuff to go on sale on Audiogon so we can afford it!

[Jeff]

Lex, I would have to agree. Keep the MC-12.

There is no issue with Classe offering a better product. We all want to see improvements. However, a price increase of $18,500 over the SSP-600? Is the SSp-600 really that obsolite?

Having modular circuit boards is a plus and the easiest way to provide updates to this pre/pro. I suppose in time these will appear on used market. Perhaps then SSP-900 will be within my reach. Now that I’m thinking of the used market, I wonder how much a software upgrade for something of this caliber would be?

[sikoniko]

the ssp-900 was supposed to be released in 2004 with the other 2 models. I wonder if it will actually come out next year.

[Jeff]

Sikoniko, 2004, that's interesting. It also makes perfect sense. Have you heard what caused the delay? I'm thinking it may have been issues on the video side. Over the past three years or so technology has changed quite a bit.

I would undertand Classe hesitation in releasing a unit of this caliber with the possibility of it being old technology in only a couple years.

[caleb]

Whinge whine moan

Hey Jeff - if you've got the money to spend - then spend it.

If you havent then stop whinging and moaning about the price of stuff. :B

[jlr_1304]

Well, i have a casablanca 3 with extreme dacs and a six shooter for analog in. It is board based and completly upgradeable. It is much more expensive to create a product based on that technology.

Kal, it is strange that you have named another product "product of the year" in place of your meridian. Maybe you should buy it

Also : have you ever received the "Ultimate Multi Channel Demo SACD" ?

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, it is strange that you have named another product "product of the year" in place of your meridian. Maybe you should buy it

I didn't name it (it's a quasi-democratic process) although I have heard it several times and been impressed. However, I am not much of an LP person any more. Too much ritual.

Also : have you ever received the "Ultimate Multi Channel Demo SACD" ?

Yup and wrote a bit about it. A few spectacular cuts, a number of OK ones and several of no interest regardless of quality.

Kal

[Jeff]

Calab, I was waiting for someone to say that. I look at it more along the lines of sticker shock.

Sikoniko last point made perfect sense. If they would have released all three at the same time, I would not have thought anything of it. With the exception of curiosity on what it must sound like and the components it’s using.

After spending some time in my HT room with a glass of Scotch, I’m over my sticker shock. It’s funny how a quality HT system can take the stress out of your day. :T

[D-bucket]

On the audio side, there some 20+ year old preamps and power amps around that still deliver a great listening experience sonically when compared to what is available today. I even have several pairs of 30+ year old speakers that still sound great (& looks good to me too but doesn't pass the "looks test" with you know who). Although multichannel & hi-resolution audio are the latest rave, there are still many die-hard 2 channel stereo buffs around that continue to support their passion with their pocketbooks. Many of these audio components from that era can still be integrated into a system today.

But on the video side, I never seem to run across any consumer video processing devices (or tv's) from that era that can still deliver the goods when compared with video processing devices today. They are totally obsolete now.

I may be in the minority but since the rate of obsolence (or usable life) appear to be vastly different between audio and video components, I favor housing audio and video processing in totally separate chassis each with their ow power supplies at this price point. A one-chassie ht audio-video pre-pro with upgradable modules or boards is a step in the right direction of future proofing or extending the usable life, but may possibly limit future upgrades to one company's proprietary components. Just think about all those old "upgradable" computers that although modula in design reach obsolesence quickly when technology surpassed the bus, chip design & form factor they were based on.

Having said the above, the $25K classe delta ssp-900 based on what I've read appears to be a truly awesome a/v ht processor in both design & scope of features :T and appears to be targeted at a market completely different from the buyers fo the previous ssp-25, ssp-30, ssp-50, ssp-60, ssp-75, ssp-300 & ssp-600 models looking for a proportional upgrade. :uhoh:

[chinets]

Also : have you ever received the "Ultimate Multi Channel Demo SACD" ?

jlr_1304 And Kal,

Can you guys be so kind as to direct me ,and tell me where I can buy this SCAD album ,you are talking about? :sos: Thanks, and is it as great as they say??

Sorry for the trouble guys!!! ops:

Cheers and thanks In advace

[jlr_1304]

jlr_1304 And Kal,

Can you guys be so kind as to direct me ,and tell me where I can buy this SCAD album ,you are talking about? :sos: Thanks, and is it as great as they say??

Sorry for the trouble guys!!! ops:

Cheers and thanks In advace

vkung@telus.net

disc #50946

You can order it here :

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?softjazs&1170611076

or web site

http://www.vkmusic.ca/

[chinets]

Wow!!! Thanks for the prompt reply!! :T

I deeply appreciate it!! ;x(

Have a nice day

[Glen B]

On the audio side, there some 20+ year old preamps and power amps around that still deliver a great listening experience sonically when compared to what is available today.

Agreed. Earlier this year I acquired a mint condition SAE amp from 1975. I replaced all of the electrolytic caps, transistors and diodes in the protection circuit and upgraded the input and output connectors. I am currently using it for HT and secondary 2-channel. This amp sounds amazing for a 30-year-old amp. Of course those amp designs by John Bongiorno were innovative and ahead of their time. Modern solid state amps all follow John's basic complementary circuit design.

Glen

[D-bucket]

Yes, I remember drooling over some of those SAE audio components that reached "rock star" status back in the day. With that new life blood injection you have given your sae amp with those replaced parts, it is reasonable to expect many more years of listening pleasure.

Jeff, the quickest remedy to the sticker shock of the SSP-900 is to take a browse thru the pictures at Exotic Audio site. Yep, that'll cure it right up for ya'. :W Imagine your B&W speakers being feed by some of them babies.

[Glen B]

Yes, I remember drooling over some of those SAE audio components that reached "rock star" status back in the day.

Mint condition pieces are still highly sought after, many on eBay fetching as much or more than original MSRP. I paid 80% of MSRP for mine. It would be interesting to learn how an SAE Model 2600 or A1001 -- both similarly rated to Classe CA-M400s -- would fare driving a pair of B&W 800s or 802s. Check out this SAE collection:
http://www.jims-sae-site.com/

[D-bucket]

That's an interesting site with some great info. I'm looking forward to checking it out more in detail when I get a chance later. Thanks for the heads up!

[jlr_1304]

I've just received the ultimate demo and another marantz stereo sacd demo.

Kal : what are your favorite tracks on the Mch demo ?

[L01]

Last time I watched into a delta-preamp to see what is inside there, I have to say: They make everything better than a Yamaha, a Pioneer, a Benq or Toshiba.... problem is: What they make different, does not justify a 200€ difference in sense of material used.... it is just:

People who want to spend this money, need the opportunity to spend it. give them a chance. Give it a good look, that is it.

Merry x-mas
Andreas

[jlr_1304]

L01 how much do you like the MAC 602 with the N802 ?

[Stevebez]

The whole issue of "high" pricing comes down to 2 things. Law of diminishing marginal returns and value with regard to alternatives...

Basically - not to be condesending in any way but from eco101 ... for each additional $ spent on equipment the marginal return or utility to the user (read better performance), drops. A $50 DVD player will play 90% as well (if not more) as the best top end player you can find... so is the difference in price worth the 10%? To some yes - to others no.

Now look at value relative to alternatives. You can probably have 2 entire decent (if not quite good) HT systems for the price of 1 SSP900 (or whatever it is called). So Is it worth it? ... well perhaps if you are after exclusivity and have some money to burn...or want to endulge yourself in your passion... same thing with cars... is a 1m$ Enzo Ferrari really so much better than the F430 which is around $150k ... I say no ... but people still want the Enzo... and yes I would like one too and probably would if I had the resources... not rational is it?

Most overused - and often eroneously - assumption in economics is that of the "rational investor". When it comes to luxury items rationality disappears out the window ...its all emotion, ego, testosterone, vanity - all things we are poor at controlling or supressing - thats why most luxury marketing focuses on emotions rather than cold facts...

So - is the SSP900 worth the $25k?... I dunno ... to some maybe but what is perhaps more difficult to digest here is the jump from the previous model which seems quite extraordinary and somewhat difficult to explain. By implication they seem to be saying the previous model was really bad, which of course is bubkus.

I wonder if anyone could be able to tell the difference in sound between the old version and the new one in a blind test? I doubt it very much ... and in terms of "upgradability" - the upgrades wont be free either so exactly where is the benefit in laying out mega bux now on what is basically a computer in a hifi box?