B&W 804S Vs. Gallo Reference 3's

[LikeCoiledSteel]

I recently demo'd some B&W 804S's at a local dealer. I am not sure if they were just not fully broken in yet, but they sounded boxed in. Not what I was expecting. Imaging was very good and was pace, they just sounded a bit constrained.

I am now looking at the Gallo's and will demo them on Saturday. Anybody put these speakers against each other? I have heard great things about the Gallo's and about the 804's also. Thanks.
Steel

[gross30]

Haven't heard the Gallo's, but the reviews are promising. Not to mention the great design put into them. Have fun test driving speakers !! Good Luck...dg

[Jesse111]

In my opinion, all B&W speakers don't need time to breakin but instead deserve long audition times to appreciate their non fatiguing musical superiority of most any speaker. For instance Wilson Watt Puppy 7's astounded me for about 60 minutes. However, I'm glad I waited patiently because soon after I found my jaws tensed up from the unatural detail of the Wilson sound in my opinion. I can respect the WP7 but I love my B&W 800D.

I auditioned the Gallo's once. After that audition it became even more clear to me that reviews can in no way be trusted. Personally, I found the speaker lacking in every possible way. The mid bass was ridiculously inaccurate and the soundstage and imaging were simply weak and strained. As for the 804's, many times in a dealer's show room speakers are offered in less than perfect conditions. Can you tell us what amps and sources were driving the 804's? I have found that B&W speakers do so much better when driven with serious power. Yes, they do very well with smaller power because of their sensitivity quality but to hear them deliver the goods I prefer enough power to meet their maximum specs. Can you also share the distance between the speakers and how far away you sat from them?

The 804 is not capable of producing heavy bass which may have contributed to your feeling of being boxed in. But they are very accurate, revealing and musical for the money. A bit short on bass I will agree.

[LikeCoiledSteel]

Hi Jesse,
Thanks for your input. The thing that bothers me about the 804S sound demo is that it was done at a 2 channel only dealer near me. They are an established dealer in the area and also carry Vandersteen, Mark Lev...etc.

I had made an appointment and the speakers were in a dedicated 2 channel room by themselves. They were placed about 10 feet apart and about 4 feet from the walls, slightly toed in. There were sound absorbers on the wall and only a small rack in between and behind the 804's. They 804's were run by a 300 watt Musical Fidelity amp (P5 I think) and all MF equipment, Richard Gray Power center and Straightwire cables. The wires were thick as a garden hose.

Seating was about 10-12 ft. back. I think the room was ideal for 2 channel listening and the equipment used should have been more than capable. That is why I was surprized by the 804 performance.

I currenlty use the B&W CDM7NT's with a Krell Kav 250A amp and 2 channel pre amp. My room is terrible for 2 channel as it is very reflective and has vaulted ceilings. I also have a 36" CRT sitting in between the speakers. I was waiting for the 804's, with that equipment and in that dedicated room to destroy my 7NT's and that would be the end of it. But that did not happen.
Thus my search continues. My thinking is that my Krells can handle almost any speaker upgrade I would go for, so power is not an issue. I also get most of my equipment used, so the value is stronger. I am working on a deal for the Gallos for less than half their new price at 1 year old, sub amp included.
Not sure if it will go through.
Steel

[chuck1801]

I would suggest that you borrow the 804Ss from the dealer, if you can, for an in-home demo. I have a theory that poorly done sound absorbers etc. can be worse than none based on the auditions of speakers I have done both at home and in various dealers' listening rooms. Your experience with the 804S does not match my own. I have spent hours listening to 804Ss powered by an Arcam Solo plugged straight into a wall socket in a small living room with no room treatments (mom's house over Thanksgiving) -- they are terrific speakers with a very open sound. Whether playing Bach Organ music or Chopin or Miles Davis or Leontyne Price or the Beatles. they were stunning.

[Jesse111]

Hi Jesse,

I had made an appointment and the speakers were in a dedicated 2 channel room by themselves. They were placed about 10 feet apart and about 4 feet from the walls, slightly toed in. They 804's were run by a 300 watt Musical Fidelity amp (P5 I think) and all MF equipment, Seating was about 10-12 ft. back. I think the room was ideal for 2 channel listening and the equipment used should have been more than capable. That is why I was surprized by the 804 performance.
Steel

I am strictly 2 channel with no HT at all.
I'd have to say their setup sounds actually pretty good from your description. However, you mention that they were slightly toed in. Now this is a personal preference but to get the most defined image they should be toed in directly at your ears. With a spread of 10 feet and your sitting position about the same distance there is really no need for off axis positioning. While a measure of spaciosness may be gained (and may not) by only using a slight bit of toe in, some dynamics and imaging will definately be lost. Slight toe in or off axis positioning might be necessary only if you are confined to a smaller room with say around a 6 foot spread between the speakers, less toe in (off axis) would be necessary to help defeat an unrealistically small sound stage.

But it's possible that you simply do not care for the elegant sophisticated musical delivery of the 800 series :W.

Since I prefer the sound capabilities of B&W over just about everything else on the planet I always think everyone else should too. But my mind is just open enough to admit that not all ears are created equal. It sounds like the 804 may not be for you. Like I said before, the 804 isn't known for tremendous bass and perhaps that is a factor. The 803 is better and would do a better job of everything. It's taller, bigger with better componants offering better bass, imaging and soundstage. Your Krell amp is a good peice of gear and will do well with 804's and 803's but more power would be even better with the 803's.

Chucks suggestion of a home audition is a good one. If you could take the 804 and the Gallo's both home for some lengthy auditons, that would certainly be the best case scenerio. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the Gallo's. Keep us posted. I can't imagine the Gallo's out performing the 804 in imaging and accuracy but you may feel completely different.

[LikeCoiledSteel]

Gallos

Hi Jesse,
Thanks for your post. I am not sure why I was under whelmed by the 804S’s. I think the room and equipment was adequate enough if not ideal for 2 channel listening, much better than the rooms at my house.

In regards to elegant sophisticated musical delivery, LOL, I think that is what we all stride for in this hobby. I wanted to fall in love with the 804’s. When I demoed the Sonus Fabre Cremonas a few years back, I was blown away. Incredible speakers.

The 804’s were very good. Imaging was very good, I am not a bass-head as I only use the CDM7NT’s with no sub. I can only describe the 804’s lacking , as I would call it “boxed in” on certain frequencies. I think the highs were very wide, layered music came out nice and clean. Plenty of detail. Perhaps the 803’s are more to my liking, but more than I am willing to spend right now. It is funny because the dealer told me that the 803S is kinda obsolete. He said, why get the 803S when you can just get the diamonds. Yes, for $2500 more. I am not saying that they are not great, just if you have a less than ideal listening room, what is the point of spending all that $? The room will make more of a difference imho.

I had spent some time this weekend at another dealer with the Gallo Reference 3.1’s, driven by Arcam monoblocks, Arcam cdp, MIT wires and the Gallo sub amp for the bass 2nd voice coil. I am now curious to know whether the Gallos you had auditioned were broken in yet and powered enough. I know you do not believe in speaker break in but every review of these I had heard says 200 hours is a must. They become a different speaker after break in. Same I heard for most B&W’s. They also need high power to come alive, same as B&W.

I was told that the Gallos at the dealer were run in well. The Arcams also seemed to fit the bill. In a nutshell, the Gallo’s outperformed the 804S. Soundstage was almost 3D. Much wider than the 804S. Bass was also deeper, yet very integrated. The bass sub amp has tone controls that lets one dial in very well. I could not believe how these little speakers sounded. The image was placed about 2 ft. behind the speakers. The room was not very good because it was open on one side, with many other speaker in the room. There was also a bass null in the room. While the Gallo’s were not the best speaker I had ever heard, they are a steal at their price. Another thing that impressed me was their lack of fatigue, a very nice speaker to listen to for long periods. They picked apart bad recordings with ease. Not sure if that is good or bad. Presentation was warm yet detailed. I cannot remember if the 804’s had an advantage in any area over the Gallo’s. The Gallos were able to disappear better into the room than the 804. Air was incredible, like Martin Logan electrostats with a much warmer and wider staging.

In house demo would be ideal. Not sure which way I am going to go yet, I do suggest giving the Gallos another try. Not saying they will outperform your 800D’s, especially in the bass dept. But at 1/7th the price, they are incredible.
Steel

[Jesse111]

Your description sounds like we listened to two completely different speakers. While I believe there could be some very small significants to speaker breakin, I am of the opinion that speaker breakin simply means one gets more used to the sound of the speaker therefore convincing themselves that their decision to purchase was the right one. However, that is certainly a war of debate saved for another thread.

I would never consider the 804's for mains in a 2 channel system without a very high quality sub and I will admit that when it comes to B&W the real fun starts with the 802D. Considering the price, it sounds like you have found a very good sonic investment in the Gallo's for your taste in speakers.

[chinets]

I guess you have managed to demo both the 804's and Gallo's quite well...Bravo! That is exactly what you ought to do. Everyone has different ears, that is why there are many different speakers in the market at the top end, middle, and bottom end. All speakers have different soundings, so you might like one brand for your ears, while another person might find them fatiguing or harsh. Some people like warmer speakers, and some people like dynamic speakers ,so everyone has his own particular taste, even if they were two different speakers that had the same exact cost.
I personally would prefer the B&W 804's over the Gallo's but that is my taste in Sound ,and that is my opinion only.

I love the B&W warm and accurate sound!

Keep us posted,
Godd Luck with your purchase and cheers

[OmegaSpeed]

Huh??

In my opinion, all B&W speakers don't need time to breakin but instead deserve long audition times to appreciate their non fatiguing musical superiority of most any speaker. For instance Wilson Watt Puppy 7's astounded me for about 60 minutes. However, I'm glad I waited patiently because soon after I found my jaws tensed up from the unatural detail of the Wilson sound in my opinion. I can respect the WP7 but I love my B&W 800D.

This is the age old problem with researching via the 'net, differing views.

I owned the 802D's for over a hear and a half and I used the following with them:
Classe Delta CA2200 amp and CP500 preamp
Musical Fidelity kW500 integrated
McIntosh MA2275 tube integrated
McIntosh MA402 amp and C42 preamp

I replaced the 802D's with Wilson WATT/Puppy 7's and the B&W's aren't even close to the Wilson's in any respect. Now to be fair, the Wilson's list for almost twice the price.

I cannot fathom coming to the conclusion as the quote above, other than a possibility of a mismatch in the setup.

For more apples-to-apples, the Wilson Sophia II is closer in price range to the B&W 802D's and having heard both, in the same setup, the Sophia II's are hands down the better performing speaker.

Lastly, the debate about break-in will rage on forever, but my experience with buying Signature 805's and the 802Ds new was that they changed a lot after time.

[LikeCoiledSteel]

Hi Guys,
First I want to thank all of you for your assistance.

As for speaker break-in, I stronly beleive in it. More so for speakers than any other audio component. B&W and Gallo speakers stand out for needing a lot of break in time. This in itself leads one to beleive that many speakers of all makes may have been given a poor review and/or lost a sale due to this. Perhaps my underwelming experience with the 804S has to due with break in. If I was a dealer and knew of this, even as just an opinion, I would run in every demo speaker for 200 hours min. While it never hurts to have too many hours, it seems to be the case with too few.

On we trek.
Steel