Naut. 802 & Yamaha Z9

[PavelL]

Did anyone try powering Naut.802s/fronts only/ with this particular Yammy? I've heard and I've read "the more Watts the better" threads. I do know. But sometimes it all souds like "your speakers will ONLY sound good with amps you will NEVER afford - like 4 500W monoblocks to biamp a pair of speakers" Some say it's the quality of those watts/???/, the damping factor, high current, 2:1 ratio for 4 and 8 Ohm, etc that really matters....Yet those new hi-fi models with high-end prices from Classe /generally thought to be a perfect match for B&W/ are only 100 to 200 W into 8 Ohm!?!?! I really like the idea of room callibration, endless DSP programs, I-link for SACD, best DACs available in Yamaha Z9. If anyone tried N802s with Z9 please respond. Thanks.

[Andrew M Ward]

I listened to a Z9 try to drive a pair of 803D's and it sounded really harsh and over worked. This was in March in Los Angeles at a training early this year.

Basically, not good.

The Yamaha had a really cool menu though!

805S with big sub might be a better match,.
just my 2 cents

[RNKC]

Yamaha makes some really cool stuff - I've been a fan of their DSPs since they began to market them here in North America some years back. I've never bought them though because, without trying to sound elitist, I never though anything by Yamaha could adequately pair up with an 800 series B&W.

I have not listed to Yamaha lately, but I did take a quick peek at their website brouchure of the Z9. It looks impressive, but even from the specs the reality is that it will be woefully inadequate to drive N802.

As a matter of perspective, I picked up a pair of N802 recently and hooked them up to my Proceed Amp5. After listening for a few weeks, I'm upgrading the front channels to Levinson 432. The Proceed is a great amp, but it's just not quite enough for Nautilus.

If you really want B&W with a Yamaha, I'd recommend 700 series or perhaps the older 800 series (Series 80 or Matrix Series) which you pick up fairly easily on audiogon.com. The older 800 series is still a fine-sounding speaker and it's not as fussy as Nautilus / D-series.

[Rolex]

I don't mean to take away from your thread too much, but wanted to comment on the the power aspect and usable watts with B&W speakers. I've had quite a few different B&W's in my day, but none at the level of the 802. As far as the Classe amps only having 100-200 watts per channel, that's true until you move up the line. They do make mono blocks that offer as much as 400 watts per channel. Your 802's would love them! After reading your comment:

"your speakers will ONLY sound good with amps you will NEVER afford - like 4 500W monoblocks to biamp a pair of speakers"

you do make a good point. There is an exception though. This would be true if you had the 700 series, or maybe the stand mount version in the 800 series. However, with you owning the N802, that's an 8000 dollar speaker. Getting up there in truly high end. When you take this hobby far enough, your entire system should be state or the art. Meaning, you would want more than a receiver to drive your speakers. I think more often than not, if someone can afford 802's or higher speakers, they also have the money to back it up with really great electronics. My favorite analogy is the guy that finally buys his ferrari, and worries about the cost of car insurance, or the cost of gas. It just doesn't make sense.

Now, someone buying a pair of 802's and powering them with a reciever with the hopes and intentions of upgrading to something more suitable to power them probably happens all the time, and is probably the way I would go. Your original post made it seem as though you wanted to stick with the yammy. Not to say you are going about it the wrong way, just wanted to add my two cents.

To realize the true potential of the 802's you may want to listen to them with a pair of high quality monoblocks, just to see what they can really do. If the yamaha is all you can afford at the moment, it will work, as long as you don't push the speakers too hard. Who knows, it may be a combination you could live with for quite some time.

[PavelL]

Thanks, Rolex! Loved your comments. It's just that my first system was Yamaha, and I still have warm feelings towards that company... and know how Yamaha's DSPs bring LIFE to sound - especially when combined with parametric equalizers to fix some room abnormailities. I WILL listen to 802s driven by good monoblocks. Most likely the room I will listen to them will be acoustically treated, and the overall sound will be sweet. But I can't do anything about this feeling of being duped... Some sell me "high-end" cables claiming that it's the only way to go... night and day difference in any system... without beeing able to explain why it works when I know it does not... And then those salesmen start singing monoblocks. I know my speakers can handle 500W, but I do not live in a stadium and I have neighbours. And if my speakers can handle 500w then should my amp be capable of giving somewhere around 1000w - for distortions to be minimal? When I would hardly ever need more than 50 W. If I got your point right IMPROVEMENTS CAN ALWAYS BE MADE AND IF HI-FI IS MY HOBBY THEN I SHOULD KNOW WHAT OT DO?...And learn to trust my own ears. After I listen to precious comments from everyone else willing to share their thoughts with me. ;x( Thank you once again.

[Rolex]

PavelL, you made the most important point of all. Trust your ears. Your system is only as good or bad as you believe it to be. Sure it's nice for your buddies to be impressed with it, but at the end of the day, when they go home, you are the one that has to be happy with it. IF you are relatively new to high end, I can completely understand your feelings towards cables. Just in case there is confusion, they CAN make a difference. But, only after the rest of the system is dialed in. Meaning this: If your amplifier is not a good match for your speakers, don't waste your time with cables. Other will argue their points, but in my eyes, cables are for nothing more than tweaking the sound of the system. The source is next in line from the amplifier. Once you get these items figured out, then head for cables, but not till then, at least in my opinion.

As far as parametric equalizers and things of that nature, I'm not very intersted. I'm more a naturalist, if you will. Most hardcore high end guys don't want equalizers or thiings of that nature, and here's why. With each piece of equipment added to your system, you want to hear the difference. You want to hear the true sound of that piece without adding externals if you will. You will bring life to a system with the right amplifier, that's where synergy between speakers and amplifier come in. My advice is don't let the salesman talk you into anything. But, by all means, do listen to your speakers with some very nice amplifiers, they don't have to be monoblocks by any means. Preferably, try it without your friends with you. That way, you can hear for yourself. If you can honestly hear a difference, there is no more snake oil.

Improvements can always be made, but you ask to ask yourself, are you and equipment junkie like myself, or are do you have an ultimate goal in mind as to where you want to be with music playback or home theater? Either one is fine, and maybe you are a little bit of both. Just beware, that once you hear how dramatically different a system can sound with different amplifiers, your mind will start to wander and you will try to find improvements elsewhere.

The N802 is an awesome speaker, and capable of very good sound, you just have to unleash it, and that can be a learning process in itself. But that's part of the fun.

[PavelL]

I can't thank you enough for your answers. Agreed 100%. What would you say to MF A5 power amp. or an integrated /integr has an input for HT that bypasses volume control - I still will be able to watch movies AND have a full stereo system/ And it won't cost me an arm and a leg. Now where can I find a dealer in Moscow? Something is telling me you will have an answer to this question too /I'm just trying to be funny/ :-) Thanks.

[David Meek]

Hi Pavel, welcome to The Guide. :welcome:

I'm a Yamaha fan, too and am currently using the RX-V1 (the Z9's grandfather). The A5 would be a nice choice. MF makes very good equipment overall, and the A-series is getting very good reviews from industry and individuals. FWIW, I'm not an 802 owner - I run Aerial Acoustics 7Bs which aren't very efficient but don't seem to need quite as much power as the 802's. When I first auditioned them, they were connected to an MF 308.CR amplifier and the combination sounded marvelous.

As to where to buy, I'm in Texas so Moscow is a bit of a reach for me. :B

How are things way up north?

[PavelL]

Thanks, David for this cordial welcome to the forum. I love my mom for the English lessons she paid for when I was a kid! Now it's paying back. Finally. Speaking of things up north it's the land of the free here. B&W products sold over the Internet at discounts. And we pay cash here. Love this. Got my Naut. 802s for only 3500$ /used/ Happy. For the time being that is...

[gross30]

Hello Pavel, I am using the RX-Z9 only for home theater applications. I run a seperate older MX-1000 for 2 channel listening out of the ZONE-2 from the Z9. I upgraded to the Z9 from the RX-Z1 last November, and have always ran seperates for 2 channel listening. In the near future I am upgrading my Monitor S9i's to B&W 802 D's, and will be upgrading amplification also. Just my own opinion, I like the seperates for 2-channel listening, and will continue with that trend. I do love the Yamaha equipment, and have been using it for the last 12 years. No complaints there at all. I think that if you are going to run 802's, you would be happier w/seperates. I.M.H.O.

[PavelL]

Hello Gross30! What is it you do not like about your Yamaha z9? It has separate amp sections for the left and right channels and when used in Pure Direct mode turns into an almost dual mono integrated amp. In pure direct mode analog signals bypass all Analog/Digital conversion... Is overall sound that poor?

[gross30]

Hello Pavel, overall sound is not that poor at all. I didn't really care for the pure-direct as opposed to the 2 channel mode. I run it through the zone 2, w/behringer equalizer just to spruce it up a little. The older mx-1000 needs a little boost to sound the way I like it too. As for the z-9 for home theater,I really enjoy it. Maybe its just a trend I have been following for years. Theres just something about having all channels for home theater and 2-channel listening inside one box does not appeal to me. I'm sure there are a number of incredible amps that do the job and then some, but for me it is seperates. I.M.H.O.

[dortiz]

I had that exact set up. BWNAUTILUS802s and a Yamaha RXZ 9. I tried them straight and man they lacked. No bottom just muddy and they had no life. I used to own a Proceed HPA2. Now the Yamaha with that as the front amps for 802s rocked. The Z9 is amazing. I dumped my Proceed AVP 2 and PMDT to get it. Great move. In home theater it was better. Stereo was close but not quite there.
Unfortunately B&W had to make those Diamond Tweeters. Now I had to dump everything and start over...but thats another thread.

Z9 great. Z9 driving 802s not so great. Z9 pre out to good amp on 802s Fantastic.

At leat pick up a Rotel RB1090. Very inexpensive and lots of ooompff.

[PavelL]

Thanks Dortiz! Did you try biamping your Naut.802s? Using z9 to power mids and highs and your power amp for the bass section only? Buy the way how large is your room that z9 "lacked" in? and what is your favourite equaliz. setting? Thanks. Rotel seems like the right choice - affordable, yet I was thinking Musical Fidelity A5 /about the same$$$/ a bit less ooompff though

[Rolex]

Although the A5 doesn't "pound" as much as the 1090, I think over all, you'll find it more pleasurable to listen to. Just a hunch, as I have not compared the two on the N802's. I have never cared for the matching of Rotel and the upper end of the B&W line. Just a personal opinion, perhaps.

[jlee]

Thanks Dortiz! Did you try biamping your Naut.802s? Using z9 to power mids and highs and your power amp for the bass section only? Buy the way how large is your room that z9 "lacked" in? and what is your favourite equaliz. setting? Thanks. Rotel seems like the right choice - affordable, yet I was thinking Musical Fidelity A5 /about the same$$$/ a bit less ooompff though

I would take the A5 over the 1090 in a heartbeat... the 1090 is not in the same league as the A5.

[PavelL]

I would take the A5 over the 1090 in a heartbeat... the 1090 is not in the same league as the A5.

Yeah, so would I, but after I buy the Z9 and see it in action. With prices going down it is becoming ever more interesting... And since my listening room is rather smallish, I might not need an additional power amp. By the way, I found out that this new line - A5 - is made in Taiwan. Quality-wise is it the same MF?

[Rolex]

One of my friends owned the A5 cd player, and I can say that, yes, it is the same quality as the regular MF stuff.

[PavelL]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I appreciate it. Ended up buying Bryston 4b sst instead of MF A5. No regrets so far.

[Ash]

HI PavelL,

Congrats on your purchase. Bryston make very good amps.

Just wondering, are you using it with the Z9 right now?

[PavelL]

You know I was hoping to get a one-box solution - hence the Yammy z9 came to mind. Price/performance is great. But since I was lead to believe it is not adequate to properly drive N802s I've skipped the idea. I might be wrong But unlike Classe Bryston is not really overpriced and I think it's a great value.

[lvhung]

I think Ya Z9 is only enough power to drive 704