Need some advice on speaker choices

**JOY DIVISION** · 19 April 2005, 11:50 Tuesday

It all depends really, start small then upgrade later, for $5K more that's alot of moolahs!! either you could put it as down payment for a new Lexus or a BMW or get yourself a plasma or LCD or a projector. Having a great system requires you to have extra $$$$$ in your bank just in case, it goes like this "if you want to impress your friends go with the $$$$$$, if you want to impress yourself go with the less $$$$$ and have more dough on a rainy day"

**sikoniko** · 19 April 2005, 13:02 Tuesday

seeing that you won't be able to power the 804s properly even after you buy a 2x120 amp, why not start a little smaller and get into an upgrade plan with your dealer? Most dealers will allow you to trade up your speakers for full value towards a higher model. The only thing is usually you pay full retail to get into that.

with HD-DVD and Blue Ray coming soon, there will be a new line of receivers that support DD+ and DTSHD so I wouldnt necessarily invest a whole lot there yet either. Start off small and work your way up! Thats what most of us that have 800 series "just to impress our friends" did.

**ti33er** · 19 April 2005, 13:14 Tuesday

...having my time over, being into HT AND Music I would buy the 804S, a HT multi channel processor and a good 2 channel amp for the 804S...and of course a good display (something like an Infocus 4805/5700 or higher)

I have since discovered (seeing as I have been reduced to 2 speakers in the interim) that setting up a stereo set of speakers correctly one can achieve pretty good virtual surround (of course this is not as good as having a proper 5.1-7.1 set up, this is what one aims for penultimately when funds allow) but one soon becomes engrossed in a movie and forgets about the missing front and surround speakers – I know some people who don’t actually like surround speakers and refuse to watch movies in anything but stereo!?

In the past I have read that a picture is roughly 80% of a cinematic experience and I must agree, so in saying that a good screen should be priority and one might be happier with good visuals and 2 speakers, than 5 unmatched speakers and mediocre visuals? (Have a look about, one can get some pretty good Projectors for petty-cash these days!)

* I know some people might disagree with what I have said here, and so with this take my comments at a pinch - check things out properly before you buy though, i.e. audition audition audition - post sales dissonance, there is nothing worse!

**ti33er** · 19 April 2005, 13:19 Tuesday

I might agree about BluRay and HDDVD...get yourself a cheapish Pre (one that you can pass on i.e. sell relatively easily without losing to much money)

I would invest in the Speakers i.e. 804S and perhaps even a good second hand stereo power amp (one that you could also pass on easily)

**js24** · 19 April 2005, 13:33 Tuesday

Unless you have to sell your children/spouse (j/k)

I say go for the best you can afford
(and I guarantee you unless you keep yourself away of forums like this, those 804S won't stay as long as you think

)
good luck~
Jay

**JimTW** · 19 April 2005, 14:34 Tuesday

Originally posted by JOY DIVISION

It all depends really, start small then upgrade later, for $5K more that's alot of moolahs!! either you could put it as down payment for a new Lexus or a BMW or get yourself a plasma or LCD or a projector. Having a great system requires you to have extra $$$$$ in your bank just in case, it goes like this "if you want to impress your friends go with the $$$$$$, if you want to impress yourself go with the less $$$$$ and have more dough on a rainy day"

Joy div,

I agree, $5k is a lot of moolah. The projector is a good idea... as I've seen
some projectors and I find the quality to be great, and the size oh so sweet
for movies! I got more to think about... the moolah on rainy days is honest
advice.

Tks.

**JimTW** · 19 April 2005, 14:36 Tuesday

Originally posted by sikoniko

seeing that you won't be able to power the 804s properly even after you buy a 2x120 amp, why not start a little smaller and get into an upgrade plan with your dealer? Most dealers will allow you to trade up your speakers for full value towards a higher model. The only thing is usually you pay full retail to get into that.

with HD-DVD and Blue Ray coming soon, there will be a new line of receivers that support DD+ and DTSHD so I wouldnt necessarily invest a whole lot there yet either. Start off small and work your way up! Thats what most of us that have 800 series "just to impress our friends" did.

Sikoniko,

I demo'ed the 804S with full Mac equipment as well as just the rotel 1056.
Even with the 1056, they still sounded very good. Why do you think even
with the 120x2 Rotel amp that the 804S still won't be adequately powered?

Tks.

**JimTW** · 19 April 2005, 14:41 Tuesday

Originally posted by ti33er

...having my time over, being into HT AND Music I would buy the 804S, a HT multi channel processor and a good 2 channel amp for the 804S...and of course a good display (something like an Infocus 4805/5700 or higher)

I have since discovered (seeing as I have been reduced to 2 speakers in the interim) that setting up a stereo set of speakers correctly one can achieve pretty good virtual surround (of course this is not as good as having a proper 5.1-7.1 set up, this is what one aims for penultimately when funds allow) but one soon becomes engrossed in a movie and forgets about the missing front and surround speakers – I know some people who don’t actually like surround speakers and refuse to watch movies in anything but stereo!?

In the past I have read that a picture is roughly 80% of a cinematic experience and I must agree, so in saying that a good screen should be priority and one might be happier with good visuals and 2 speakers, than 5 unmatched speakers and mediocre visuals? (Have a look about, one can get some pretty good Projectors for petty-cash these days!)

* I know some people might disagree with what I have said here, and so with this take my comments at a pinch - check things out properly before you buy though, i.e. audition audition audition - post sales dissonance, there is nothing worse!

Ti33er,

I like your thinking. Hehe.

Ya, I just discovered today that you can get a pretty good projector
for less than 2000 US and have a big viewing area with awesome picture
quality. To me, that's more worth the money than a plasma.

Btw, I've gone to the HT store to audition twice already. I feel bad that
I keep on auditioning and not making a purchase. In HT and HiFi world, is
there no shame a tall in auditiong a ton? Just wondering.

Tks.

**JimTW** · 19 April 2005, 14:43 Tuesday

Originally posted by js24

Unless you have to sell your children/spouse (j/k)

I say go for the best you can afford
(and I guarantee you unless you keep yourself away of forums like this, those 804S won't stay as long as you think

)
good luck~
Jay

Jay,

The good thing is I don't have children or spouse yet... or else selling the
children can net the 802Ds. Jk. =D I figure I might as well get something
nice before I have my freedom taken away from me by wife and children.
Man, a pair of 804S equals a full HT system based off the 600 series speakers.
HAHA!

Tks.

**sikoniko** · 19 April 2005, 15:31 Tuesday

I demo'ed the 804S with full Mac equipment as well as just the rotel 1056.
Even with the 1056, they still sounded very good. Why do you think even
with the 120x2 Rotel amp that the 804S still won't be adequately powered?

I have N804's and when I originally got them, all I was using was a rotel 1055. To me, the speakers sounded very stressed. not very alive, so to speak. After I upgraded to my cinnenova grande 5 (300Wx5), the speakers really came to life. very open and full.

I have also heard the N804 on the rotel 1075 and while it was better, still didnt bring out the best in those speakers.

My recommendation is, until you can do your speakers justice and give them the power they deserve (ie at least 200w), I wouldn't travel that route.

It is a slippery slope indeed. Once you get the speakers, you need the amp.. then you are in seperates so do you get a pre/pro or just a receiver for the time being.. then tweaks... better speaker cable, sound anchor stands, they all make a difference and the price just keeps rising.

You know your budget best. My recommendation is to decide on a budget that you will be happy with and spend within your means. remember, there is always going to be something better.

**JCL** · 19 April 2005, 16:06 Tuesday

It's up to you really. I always look at it like this. The second system is 5K more, right? Well than, does it soudn 5K better? Yes, buy it! No, don't simple. If you are willing to spend that kind of monny, just do it, if it makes you happy buy it. Fall is not so far away as you might think (I hope :P ). Chase your dream, but don't buy something you know you will dump in a few months, it's just a waist of mony. Just my 2 cents

**Jmac** · 19 April 2005, 22:32 Tuesday

Great thread.. :-)

May I echo the sentiments re it being great to find a B&W dedicated forum, being a newbie here myself as well.

I'm in a similar position, trying to choose between a 600 series, or 700 series, or *gasp* 800 series setup for HT/Movie use, and some multichannel music.

ti33er said:

In the past I have read that a picture is roughly 80% of a cinematic experience and I must agree, so in saying that a good screen should be priority and one might be happier with good visuals and 2 speakers, than 5 unmatched speakers and mediocre visuals? (Have a look about, one can get some pretty good Projectors for petty-cash these days!)

An excellent point, and something I've become aware of being relatively new to the HT side of things - the predominance of the visuals in the video/sound mix of an HT experience, seems to negate a good deal of the extra quality of sound that a 'better' set of speakers brings to the party, as one's senses are divided between the picture and the sound, unlike music where one is concentrating only on the one sense.

In that context, whilst no doubt better speakers, would the 800 series for you, given the large amount of $$$ diference between them and the 600 series, perform to a high enough standard over the 600 series in an HT context (visual 'distracting you from the subtlities of sound) such as to justify the cost? For music, yes, but for HT usuage, I'm personally less sure.

Heheh, this is pretty much the exact same question I'm trying to figure out for myself.... :roll:

HT just seems such a different 'experience' to music/2 channel, with very different priorities re allocation of budget to the equipment it appears.

Best regards

John... :T

**csuzor** · 20 April 2005, 11:27 Wednesday

I started out like you, 6 months ago.

I first purchased a denon AVR, upgrading from an old amp, and used this on my old speakers.

I then ordered a set of 600 series for 80% music / 20% HT. I didn't really know what multichannel music was all about. That was a big investment for me (after 10 years without any purchase)

Before they arrived at the store, I listened to the 700 series at another store (the first store didnt have anything beyond the 600 series). I walked out that evening with 2 704, knowing I had blown the budget. I cancelled the 600 series.

2 months later, I bought the HTM7, and with the old speakers as surrounds, multi-channel has become a priority.

1 month later, the Denon 2200 (and thus discovered real surround music with SACD)

I set my sights on the 703 for the fronts, putting my 704 to the rear for the future. However, when listening to the 704/703 at the store with my amp, I realised the better investment was a Rotel RSP + RMB, so I walked out with that, and I am still paying that off.

During that listening session, I tried the 804, and was impressed... I now have a difficult choice to make, stick to the 700 series and get the 703 later, or get the 804 for the front and ask many more questions about the other speakers!

To make it worse, an opp has just come in my area, a guy selling his Cherry 703 at a real discount...

Many people on this forum have the "upgradeitis" bug... I must have caught it!

Anything above the 700 series for HT is overkill, dialog and sound effects just dont need more quality than that. My problem is, music is my priority.

Have fun deciding!
Christophe

**sikoniko** · 20 April 2005, 13:23 Wednesday

Anything above the 700 series for HT is overkill, dialog and sound effects just dont need more quality than that. My problem is, music is my priority.

are you telling yourself that to save money? HT takes advantage of the 800 series nicely. accuracy is increased on everything. sound track, effects, etc.

**Ash** · 20 April 2005, 15:33 Wednesday

I don't know what it is with B&W and the need to upgrade. I mean, I just finished purchasing the speaker aspect of my HT system. (805 fronts, HTM2 and 705 Surrounds, bad amp, bad cables, bad dvd player). However, I have just seen an 802s that a freind owned. It was the first time I have seen or heard the 802. I wish I never did. My speakers look so dwarved and unspecial now. I used to like them much more. All I can think about is upgrading speakers, even though I know that I should be thinking of buying a good amp for my system.

I think a good Idea for anyone to do is to set a reasonable budget for HT and then just listen to a system that meets that budget. Just try and avoid a system that is way out of your budget, because once you see and hear them, your hooked!!

I never got this feeling of wanting to upgrade with any other product (other than speakers). I dont know why?? But I guess its an inherent sympton of any audiophile.

BTW what is Blue Ray, HD-DVD???????

**csuzor** · 21 April 2005, 00:26 Thursday

Originally posted by sikoniko

are you telling yourself that to save money? HT takes advantage of the 800 series nicely. accuracy is increased on everything. sound track, effects, etc.

Sikoniko, it was provocation. Of course, going all the way to 800D + HTM1D, and at every step of the way, every type of sound will benefit. However, the value of such improvement varies for everyone. Today, if I could have 2 systems, for HiFi and Movies, Movies would be based on 700 series, whereas HiFi would be limited by budget and WAF.
Christophe

Need some advice on speaker choices

Need some advice on speaker choices

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