Seas Excel Build Complete - Pictures

[DancesWithBeers]

Here are the latest speakers I built for a friend's wedding gift. I used Seas Excel W15CY001 mids and T25CF001 Tweeters (new versions). The crossover was designed by someone who is well known, but it's not a public design so I can't divulge any info on it.

A few things to note about this build:

1. I will never use MDF again to build speakers. The stuff is brittle and I am too clumsy to use it without damaging edges and corners.

2. The size of the enclosure is .5 ft3, tuned to 45 hz. The ports are removable as the hole is snug enough to hold them in place, so I'll probably send a few extra ports, tuned to various frequencies, just in case. They are made for a small apartment, with neighbors being a concern, so output was not a primary concern.

3. I went with floorstanding because my friends are artists and artists usually like to put their speakers where they look nice, not where they sound nice. So, this was my devious little plan to get them to not position them on their sides under a couch.

4. The bottom wood piece is removable to access the crossovers, if needed.

5. Building a box is so much easier than building an enclosure with curved sides. It too a few weeks rather than several months.

6. They look different because the budget didn't allow two matched sheets of walnut veneer, so I used the same sheet. They each have their own character I guess. It bothers my OCD a bit, but I can live with it.

7. They were finished with Danish Oil for a few coats and then I got tired of applying Danish Oil because the stuff takes forever to build up, so I switched to General Finishes' oil varnish.

8. If you are using the iron on method, make 100% sure the glue is absolutely dry before starting, or you might have an incident like I did where the veneer adhered where I didn't want it to. It would not come off...

Pics:

All cuts made


Clamps, wood, and glue


Nearly a box


Damage and unseen fury. There was a dropping issue.


Repair in progress. I rabbeted out the damage and replaced with good wood. Then I flush trimmed to size


A fifth side



Jump forward a few days and they're lined with sound absorbing material, the crossovers are mounted, and the wires have been run.


Clamping on the top part of the front baffle (in two parts because baffles cut to size appeared with my order).


Glue drying so that veneer can be ironed on. Back piece was already attached.


Veneer attached to one speaker.


And the other...


Bases made, attached, and first coat applied


Seven or so coats later, with steel wool and sanding in between.


Binding Posts.


Drivers attached.


95% done and brought inside for a listen

[Undefinition]

:E The veneer and finishing look beautiful! The driver choices aren't too shabby, either. I should have invited you to my wedding. :W

[PoorboyMike]

I think they look great! Love that veneer; where did you get it at?

Oh, and how do they sound?

[Notorious_AK]

I think it is the first veneered enclosure that I really like. Beautiful!

[DancesWithBeers]

The veneer is from veneersupplies.com:

http://www.veneersupplies.com/product_info.php?cPath=51_75_54&products_id=2003&osCsid=54ae7a473500559096755eec152826d2

It's 10 mil paper backed.

[Jonasz]

Beautiful, love the style and the veneer! :P

So, the obvious question, how do they sound compared to your SS based speaker in the background?

[DancesWithBeers]

Beautiful, love the style and the veneer! :P

So, the obvious question, how do they sound compared to your SS based speaker in the background?

Thanks, I was really happy with the walnut, having used it for the first time. They didn't want anything highly figured, so it seemed like a good choice.

The speakers in the background are the Zaph Audio ZD5s. They sound amazing, as does the Seas setup. Being able to compare the two has shown me a few things.

The first is that placement matters as much as the speakers themselves. The ZD5s are not placed far enough away from the front wall. They are slightly harsh with higher pitched female vocals in that position. I had guessed that the placement was the problem, but as soon as I heard the Seas setup, the issue wasn't there. So, just to confirm, I moved the ZD5s out from the wall to the same position and the problem disappeared.

I wouldn't say that either of them has any sort of character. The sound is the music coming out of them and that's pretty much all. The ZD5s have more extension higher in the frequency range and the Seas setup more lower because they are ported.

As far as the rest of the sound, they are very similar. I feel like the ZD5s are a bit more clear and less muddy (I'm really reaching here because the differences are minute). That's either because I paid more for them or because the enclosures are far more rigid due to being curved.

In identical enclosures, I'm pretty sure the ZD5s would have higher output and they would definitely have better bass extension, but it's pretty amazing to me still how low the Seas setup will go. I don't push them too loud, though.

To tell you the truth, if I could do a double-blind A-B comparison between the two, with each crossed over and the subwoofers filling in the bass, I'd probably have a hard time telling the difference between them with most music.

Anyway, I think it's really difficult to describe speakers that sound really good without embellishing. They just don't sound wrong in any obvious ways. It's like not being sick - you don't notice your health until it's taken away from you. If a speaker sounds bad, I can tell right away and it really annoys me. Neither of these annoy me and I can focus on enjoying the music without any distracting distortion or tonal problems.

[john trials]

Those speakers are SO nice looking!

Did you book-match the veneer, or is that just the natural repeated pattern of the veneer and you centered it?

[DancesWithBeers]

It was once piece of 4x8 veneer and that was the book-matching done at the factory. I just centered it.

[Hank]

Lovely veneer work, Dances! I haven't seen DIY with walnut in forever.

[Jonasz]

Thanks for the info about the sound differences, very informative.

I'm listening daily to my W15CY/OW1 computer speakers and I'm very happy about how they sound! :P

Oh btw, what do you mean about the "new" version of the Seas tweeter? Do you mean T25CF003 without ferrofluid?

[soundemon]

Once again, excellent work, fantastic job with the veneer!

[DancesWithBeers]

Oh btw, what do you mean about the "new" version of the Seas tweeter? Do you mean T25CF003 without ferrofluid?

No, it's still the Seas T25CF001. From what I remember reading, they made some changes to it and now it has less distortion, but the response is not as flat - I think it falls off on the top end earlier than before. Someone who has tested it might be able to elaborate. I can't remember where I read that info.

[soundemon]

what size is the roundover on side edges of the front baffle?

[DancesWithBeers]

what size is the roundover on side edges of the front baffle?

Soundemon: The round-over is 1/2" in this case.

[soundemon]

Soundemon: The round-over is 1/2" in this case.

I thought so! how difficult was it to veneer around the 1/2" roundover? (I ask becouse I've got a 1/2" roundover on my statements, and in order to get a 3/4" roundover I'll need to invest about $300 or more for a new router and bit... :cry: )

[BigguyZ]

I thought so! how difficult was it to veneer around the 1/2" roundover? (I ask becouse I've got a 1/2" roundover on my statements, and in order to get a 3/4" roundover I'll need to invest about $300 or more for a new router and bit... :cry: )

$300?? You can easily get a used router with a 1/2" collet for about $100, and a 3/4" roundover would be $22 shipped here.
http://www.woodline.com/p-1401-round...-12-shank.aspx

Or, you can go crazy and get a really BIG bit.... :B
http://www.woodline.com/p-2136-round...-12-shank.aspx

[BobEllis]

not quite that much - $179 http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-M12V2-...0692300&sr=8-3 plus $21 for the bit from MLCS

Another option for routers is http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVSP...0692526&sr=8-1 not quite as powerful but a good accessory kit comes with.

My collection of routers isn't up to Jon Marsh standards, but I own both of these routers. They are quite smooth cutting. The Bosch is fine with the 3/4" roundover bit. I use the Hitachi when going larger. It'll do a 1-1/4" roundover on MDF in two passes with ease.

[BigguyZ]

not quite that much - $179 http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-M12V2-...0692300&sr=8-3 plus $21 for the bit from MLCS

Another option for routers is http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVSP...0692526&sr=8-1 not quite as powerful but a good accessory kit comes with.

My collection of routers isn't up to Jon Marsh standards, but I own both of these routers. They are quite smooth cutting. The Bosch is fine with the 3/4" roundover bit. I use the Hitachi when going larger. It'll do a 1-1/4" roundover on MDF in two passes with ease.

I have the Bosch, and it's a great deal, and a great router. I'd say it'd be fine for any size bit- just do multiple passes (which you should do anyways). I used a 1-1/4" roundover with my first router- a 2 HP Ryobi I bought for $100. Not a bad router, either. But the Bosch is definitely better.

Sure, a larger router would be nice too- I have a PC 7539 that I a lot more heavy-duty than the Bosch, but it's dedicated to my router table.

[DancesWithBeers]

I thought so! how difficult was it to veneer around the 1/2" roundover? (I ask becouse I've got a 1/2" roundover on my statements, and in order to get a 3/4" roundover I'll need to invest about $300 or more for a new router and bit... :cry: )

It was not difficult with this wood. Some woods are a bit different. I have up to 7/8", but liked the look of a 1/2" roundover in this case. I would hold off on buying more bits and a router, get everything done with a 1/2" bit, but leave room to round over to 3/4" if needed. Then, you can try the particular veneer you have and make sure it doesn't split too much when you pull it around the roundover.

[jkrutke]

Here are the latest speakers I built for a friend's wedding gift. I used Seas Excel W15CY001 mids and T25CF001 Tweeters (new versions). The crossover was designed by someone who is well known, but it's not a public design so I can't divulge any info on it.

Is that my design? I had three T25/W15 systems go out the door but I can't recall who bought them. If it is, it doesn't have to be a secret that it's my design, just that I don't want the design placed in public domain for various reasons. Thanks for not divulging it. Those look beautiful though, I wish I had your finishing skills.

You're in the unique position of comparing 2 of my best sounding 5" 2-way systems, something I haven't been able to do myself. I haven't had both in the house at the same time. Thanks for bringing up the importance of positioning, indeed it can make a big difference, particularly when the back wall bounce lines up with the floor bounce and really wreaks havoc.

No, it's still the Seas T25CF001. From what I remember reading, they made some changes to it and now it has less distortion, but the response is not as flat - I think it falls off on the top end earlier than before. Someone who has tested it might be able to elaborate. I can't remember where I read that info.

Yup you have it right. For the record, the current response shown at Madisound is accurate. Not quite as smooth as the older ones but it is indeed lower non-linear distortion.

[DancesWithBeers]

Is that my design? I had three T25/W15 systems go out the door but I can't recall who bought them. If it is, it doesn't have to be a secret that it's my design, just that I don't want the design placed in public domain for various reasons. Thanks for not divulging it. Those look beautiful though, I wish I had your finishing skills.

You're in the unique position of comparing 2 of my best sounding 5" 2-way systems, something I haven't been able to do myself. I haven't had both in the house at the same time. Thanks for bringing up the importance of positioning, indeed it can make a big difference, particularly when the back wall bounce lines up with the floor bounce and really wreaks havoc.

Thanks. It is indeed your design and sounds great. The sound of the two is very similar. The kit I won in your auction was a great deal, too, as my winning auction price for drivers and crossover design came out to quite a bit less than retail for the drivers. I actually just wanted this for the crossover design because I'll probably build another set in the future, but it worked out for a wedding gift also.

You might notice also that I incorporated the baffles you sent, which saved a bunch of time, so you technically can take credit for building part of these.

I look forward to your newest kits. I've always wanted to build an MMTMM. Besides increased output, how will it rate compared to the ZD5, let's say?

[LING GOWA]

WOW! Those are freaking beautiful. It's too bad you couldn't have matching veneers for each speaker. That would have been even more spectacular.
Great job!!!

[mtmpenn]

Finishing Question

Sorry to drag this thread back... I tried to send DancesWithBeers a PM but didn't hear back so I thought maybe bringing this thread up would help.

Anyway, DancesWithBeers, these speakers look amazing. I have some of the same veneer that I am getting ready to apply to a project, and was hoping to get more information from you about the finishing schedule that you used.

Did you use watco danish oil finish or some other brand? And if you used watco, was it natural or tinted?

Thanks,
Mike

[DancesWithBeers]

Sorry to drag this thread back... I tried to send DancesWithBeers a PM but didn't hear back so I thought maybe bringing this thread up would help.

Anyway, DancesWithBeers, these speakers look amazing. I have some of the same veneer that I am getting ready to apply to a project, and was hoping to get more information from you about the finishing schedule that you used.

Did you use watco danish oil finish or some other brand? And if you used watco, was it natural or tinted?

Thanks,
Mike

Sorry I didn't respond to the PM. I never check them, but just turned on the option to give me an email. Anyway, as far as finishing, I started with Watco Danish oil, but then lost patience as I needed to deliver the project, so I switched to General Finish's Seal a Cell clear:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10929

The product has more "varnish" in it, so it builds up faster. If I were to do it again, I'd use Waterlox Original Sealer finish, as I prefer how it looks when done. It may darken the project a bit more. For any oil finish, you'd follow the same steps basically:

1. Sand the entire project up through 320-400 grit.
2. Fill the grain if you want a perfectly smooth surface***
3. Apply the the oil-based finish liberally to the surface with a clean, lint free cloth, application sponge, or brush.
4. Wait about 5 minutes for it to soak in and wipe up the excess (this wait time varies depending on the product).
5. Wait 24 hours.
6. Repeat 3-5.
7. Wait 24 hours.
8. Sand with 400 grit.
9. Apply another coat and wipe off (when I wipe off, I typically just wipe with a t-shirt using one piece of it. I'm not wiping off every bit of finish, but more smoothing it out and wiping up enough excess to avoid any runs).
10. Repeat steps 7-9 until the finish starts building to the surface.

Once the finish is nearing the surface, I will typically start with finer sandpaper and then steel wool between coats. When it starts looking how I want it, after dry, I buff with 0000 steel wool and apply one more very light coat.

Your time to finish will differ depending on the wood type. For a smooth, closed grain wood like maple, you don't need much. For something like mahogany and walnut, the wood will soak up more of the oil. The general finishes tend to build up faster, more like poly. With the Danish oil, the build up was really slow. I prefer a lot of thin coats in general.

I find Waterlox to be a nice compromise, but you'll need to leave the project to cure for a couple weeks to get rid of any odor. The nice thing about the Seal a Cell is that it degases more quickly and doesn't smell up your house if you're in a hurry to listen to the project.

I did my ZD5 build with General Finishes also:

http://www.webherrera.com/blog/2009/06/14/zd5-build-complete/

The cabinets the ZD5s sit on were done with the Waterlox:

http://www.webherrera.com/photos/index.php?album=HiFi+Set/Finished

***I almost never fill the grain because there are dozens of ways to do it and none of them really approach my patience threshold. Here is how I would do it if I were going to do it right:

http://www.outdoors.net/site/features/feature.aspx?Forum=Firearms&ArticleCode=3037&V=False&SearchTerm=&curpage=3037

Hope this helps.

DWB

[mtmpenn]

Thank you for the very detailed reply DWB! I really appreciate it.

For the danish oil - was it tinted or natural? I'm just trying to get a sense of how much color, if any, you added to the walnut. It is amazingly gray in its unfinished state...

Mike

[DancesWithBeers]

It was the natural one, almost no tint. The General Finishes is also clear.

[mtmpenn]

Thanks a lot!

Mike

[David G]

You'd have to look long and hard to find a commercial design that comes close to that workmanship and beauty. Awesome job!