Zaph Waveguide TMM and BAMTM build

[Homebrew]

Speakers in Progress
Again after I have listened to stangbat's ZDT3.5's I will have these built faster than normal. The ZDT3.5's are amaizing.

[Homebrew]

More Pics

Here are some more

[Homebrew]

And More

More pics

[Homebrew]

And more

More pics

[stangbat]

Looks good. Thanks for the progress pics.

The funny thing is, we had never even met before yesterday. Having never heard a Zaph design before, and having only heard one up to now, I never would have guessed that the opportunity is going to arise for me (us) to hear three different ones.

Next we need to figure out who is going to build the Statements. Blktre, you up for it?

[Blktre]

Hey Homebrew.....looking good so far. Looks like we both are chomping at the bit to get out projects finished up. It also looks like you have some decent tools as well. I wouldn't mind giving them a listen when your done. Maybe we could meet over at Stang's place and compare and drink some homebrew!

After I get my amp im saving up for, the Statements looks like a fun project. Dont tempt me as you know when that happens, i will do it....lol

[Homebrew]

Thanks guys, I up for a home made beer!! Let me knock these out and I can bring them over when they are done. I may have to fire up my mash tun and maka a batch myself.

[augerpro]

What kind of putty/epoxy did you use on that waveguide? Is it strong? Did you rough up the plastic first?

[Homebrew]

It was Oatly epoxy, got it in the plumming dept of Home Depot. When I was testing different things this won all the tests. I put some on a 16 penny nail on the part of the waveguide that was cut off and I could not break it off with my bare hands, bent the nail. I did rough it up. Roughed up the surface of the waveguide with a dremmel tool and drilled little holes in the webbing for more surface for the epoxy. Then you kneed the epoxy and stick it on like puddy or clay, made sure the stuff went through the holes and bolted the tweeter on. Didnt go crazy with tightenig the bolts but they are tight. And the tweeter can be removed without removing the baffle. Yes all this and guess what, I made a removable baffle in the enclosure anyway after the tweeter was done. But its done.

[Homebrew]

Progress

A Little more progress, Crossovers completed, enclosures ready for final sanding, sealing, and laminate.

[stangbat]

Those are some beefy baffles.

How are you going to finish them? (The cabinets)

[ThomasW]

Those are some beefy baffles.

Yes, he should bevel the backsides of the woofer cutouts so the cone isn't masked by the wood.

[Homebrew]

Those are some beefy baffles.

How are you going to finish them? (The cabinets)

ThomasW,
Good point, I will bevel as much as possible.
I havn't decided what stain color, but they will be stained (oak Laminate on sides) then a satin poly. The BAMTM will be the same but the baffles will be like syangbat did his, textured paint than clear over. I like the way his looked.

[Homebrew]

Need More Help

Speakers are getting close, I did scallop the insides of the baffles as suggested but now if you look at the pic the hole I made in the cabinet, once the baffle is attached to that the inside cutout is not scalloped. Should I cut them out larger, cut them at a 45 degree or will this make an audible difference if I do not do something about it. I think I need to cut them at a 45 degree angle but not sure.

[eyekode]

So some of these are baffles are solid wood? Looks like red oak?

[Homebrew]

Yes 1 1/4 inch solid red oak with 3/4 inch MDF on the inside.

[JJones]

Speakers in Progress
Again after I have listened to stangbat's ZDT3.5's I will have these built faster than normal. The ZDT3.5's are amaizing.

Cool, I just ordered the parts to build BAMTMs (cause they seemed like the best value to me), and wish I could build the Waveguide TMMs :cry: and I will also be building L+CC+R ZDT 3.5s for a co-worker, so I'll get to listen to 2 out of the 3, anyway.

I've also decided to go with the floorstanding (vented) cabinet for my BAMTMs.

Can't wait to hear what you think of the sound ESPECIALLY comparing the three different models ~ will you do some side-by-side listening between these two models you're building and stangbat's ZDTs? 8)

Speakers are getting close, I did scallop the insides of the baffles as suggested but now if you look at the pic the hole I made in the cabinet, once the baffle is attached to that the inside cutout is not scalloped. Should I cut them out larger, cut them at a 45 degree or will this make an audible difference if I do not do something about it. I think I need to cut them at a 45 degree angle but not sure.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to chamfer the inside baffle to 45 degrees also. Probably better if you do that. But, is it already glued? If they ARE already glued, then you could use a jigsaw angled at 45 degrees to do that? Cutting to 45 degrees would probably be better than just cutting the hole larger, though the difference may be ever so slight.

[Homebrew]

Can't wait to hear what you think of the sound ESPECIALLY comparing the three different models ~ will you do some side-by-side listening between these two models you're building and stangbat's ZDTs?

As soon as I get them done I am going to take them over to stangbats house (With his permission of course) and then we can hear three Zaph speaker designs in one listening session. His sound incredible. Once you hear the ZDT's you may keep em for yourself. We will be more than happy to post what we thought. I hope im not the olnly one who puts the speakers in the cutouts to see what it will look like before ther done, dang sawdust on my new drivers, but there turning out better that I thought, well see when the finish goes on. I hope I didn't make the cabinets for my BAMTM too large, I was going to put a bag of sand in the bottom of each cabinet and this will leave me very close to 2 cubic feet of sealed volume. Should be OK. Will let you know.
Oh yea I ended up making the cutout larger on the Wavguide cabinets.


I just noticed your going vented, I chose the sealed. Now we have two styles of BAMTMs.

[stangbat]

As soon as I get them done I am going to take them over to stangbats house (With his permission of course) and then we can hear three Zaph speaker designs in one listening session. His sound incredible. Once you hear the ZDT's you may keep em for yourself. We will be more than happy to post what we thought. I hope im not the olnly one who puts the speakers in the cutouts to see what it will look like before ther done, dang sawdust on my new drivers, but there turning out better that I thought, well see when the finish goes on. I hope I didn't make the cabinets for my BAMTM too large, I was going to put a bag of sand in the bottom of each cabinet and this will leave me very close to 2 cubic feet of sealed volume. Should be OK. Will let you know.
Oh yea I ended up making the cutout larger on the Wavguide cabinets.


I just noticed your going vented, I chose the sealed. Now we have two styles of BAMTMs.

Those are looking nice. Yes, I'd love to hear them and the ZDT3.5 all in one session. If you don't mind carting them around, I'm all for it. We'll have to see if we can get Blktre over here for the session too.

[Homebrew]

Yes, I'd love to hear them and the ZDT3.5 all in one session. If you don't mind carting them around, I'm all for it. We'll have to see if we can get Blktre over here for the session too.

Thanks stangbat! Soon as they are done we can set something up, I don't mind hauling them over there. The finish and stuffing is all thats left. We picked a stain for them, the redish one is what we ended up liking the best but the black stain is really nice too.

[Blktre]

Looking great! Id sure like to take a listen myself. Id really like to hear those Waveguides.....
Btw, I chose a redish stain for my ZDT3.5's and love the contrast w/the black baffle, dual binding post plate, and ports.

[Homebrew]

Thanks blktre,
We liked the redish look also, the picture doesnt do it justice. Looks like were waiting on me. Im working on them evey chance I get, watch this thread and when there done I will post them. Im going to do what I can this weekend.

[stangbat]

Blktre's stain choice had me reconsidering the color I stained mine. It looks very good. I think you'll really like yours.

[Homebrew]

Your speakers are super nice! Too bad I am on the internet and not sanding speakers! Did you notice the thread were the guy put PE adhesive back vinyl on his BAMTM's. Look pretty good for somthing so easy. My brother in law showed me a veneer application trick that I will have to post, made the veneer a brezze to install.

[stangbat]

No, I didn't see that with the BAMTM and vinyl. Blktre and I used the PVA glue iron-on method with paperbacked veneer and it was pretty easy and foolproof. But easier would certainly be welcome.

[Blktre]

No, I didn't see that with the BAMTM and vinyl. Blktre and I used the PVA glue iron-on method with paperbacked veneer and it was pretty easy and foolproof. But easier would certainly be welcome.

Wow, if there is an easier way than the iron-on method, id take a listen as well.

Erik, not sure why you would re-consider your stain? Golden Oak is always a fan favorite!

[todd95008]

Great looking boxes !!
I'm looking forward to the Zaph comparison...

See some pics of my WG-TMM's

Todd

[djg]

self stick veneer

www.formwood.com this company makes self adhesive veneer, I found it from a link off louc's speaker site. I cannot vouch for it, but the company looks solid.

[Homebrew]

Tod95008,
How do your waveguides sound, I am very interested, also nice job on the build! Very Nice! I can't wait to get mine done. Here is my latest progress pics, I was doing good till the finishing stage. Getting a solid Oak baffle to match a grade B laminate is very difficult. I am going to have to sand the baffles wit 100 to 150 grit to get it to match. I never thought there was a thing as too much sanding but 220 grit on the baffles will not match the stain absorbsion on the laminate. So notice the different color on the baffle. I will defeat the baffle and get it to match.

[stangbat]

Those are really looking nice. I hear you on the finishing problems. My build went really smoothly until it came to the finish.

You could always paint the baffles black.

Kidding! I'm just kidding!

[Homebrew]

Believe me I've thought about it, I am resandind ALL THE BAFFLES. I think I should take baffle 101.

[Blktre]

I actually like the different color of the baffle in the first pic......but im not the one that's gonna stare at them either....Looking good!!

[todd95008]

Todd95008,
How do your waveguides sound, I am very interested, also nice job on the build! Very Nice!

The waveguides take a bit of getting used to at first.
It is very much like Zaph explained like headphones.
Some recordings have artificial left-right content (L or R channel only) unlike a real acoustic space that like with headphones is just plain wierd to listen to.
This is the directivity of the waveguide doing it's thing.
On recordings with a more realistic acoustic space they have the best HF imaging I have heard in a speaker.
You can move your head from side to side and the image stays well focussed.
I built the perfectionist versions which you should be able to tell from the X-over pics.
Above 2khz, these speakers measure flatter than anything I've ever had !!
I also am now a huge fan of the 27TDFC tweeter since these have a very clean high end as well.
In my room at the listening position, I measured a 4dB & 1/3 octave wide peak at about 750Hz. This is about 80% the speaker/room interaction but there is a bump even in Zaphs plots. My room also has a very bad mode at 100Hz that is a bit more prominent with these than my old speakers.
After about a month I just could not live with it so I recently put my Behringer DEQ2496 (digital EQ/RTA) back in the rack and smoothed things out a bit below 1khz. Now they areally cooking although the Beringer needs some tweaking now too....
Speaking of cooking, these speakers are VERY sensitive.
It won't take much power to drive these louder than you should be listening to (if you value your hearing that is).
Kind of makes me think my monster Parasound Halo amp is wasted ???

Todd

P.S. I'm also really looking forward to the Zaph comparison you guys are going to do !!!

[Blktre]

P.S. I'm also really looking forward to the Zaph comparison you guys are going to do !!!

Thanks for the listening eval. Todd. I'm excited to hear all these designs together in a single day listening session. When time gets closer, im sure we will put some criteria into the session. Since the Waveguide uses the same cab. as the ZDT3, im very excited to hear these. Especially since i passed up on some commercial speakers that use similar waveguide technologies.

[peter_m]

...I'm excited to hear all these designs together in a single day listening session...

Many of us are eagerly awaiting... hint! hint! :B

Looking forward to the comments/comparison.

Peter

[Homebrew]

Looks like were waiting on me to get the Waveguides and BAMTM done. If I quit messing up the baffle finish they may get done soon. Going as fast as I can. Maybe a few more weeks to get them completed.

[Blktre]

Looks like were waiting on me to get the Waveguides and BAMTM done. If I quit messing up the baffle finish they may get done soon. Going as fast as I can. Maybe a few more weeks to get them completed.

No hurry. Take your time and finish your speakers so you are satisfied. Dont rush thru just to make the session as fast as you can....

[Homebrew]

Sounds good, I will keep you all posted as progress happens

[Homebrew]

Sand baffle with 150 grit then stain and now they match

[stangbat]

Good deal. Glad you were successful. They certainly look like they match from the pics.

It looks like you have the poly on the cabinets. Do the baffles have poly on them too?

[Homebrew]

It looks like you have the poly on the cabinets. Do the baffles have poly on them too?

Actualy the glossy look is just the oil stain. I put on three light coats to get the color I wanted and it has a glossy look. The poly will go on this weekend with the HVLP sray gun. These should look very good after the poly, I cant decide if I should do Gloss or Semi gloss. What did you use on yours.

[JonP]

Great looking boxes !!
I'm looking forward to the Zaph comparison...

See some pics of my WG-TMM's

Todd

Two words, Todd... Black Screws! :W

But really, I'm just nitpicking... a stunning pair of speakers....

Homebrew, give a thought to brass screws, may look nice against that Oak, but probably black blending into the frames and waveguide woud be best. Up to you as the Artist, of course!!

I've always thought a lot about those, always wanted to try an efficent, high dynamic range speaker to see how much more "aliveness" that brings out.

[todd95008]

Two words, Todd... Black Screws!
But really, I'm just nitpicking... a stunning pair of speakers....

Yes I know...
Those are 8-32 x 1-1/8" SST machine screws and yes it looks funny with the grills off !!
I have some more screws I have been planning to paint but it's low on the list ....

Funny, the part I thought would be the hardest (machining the waveguides & mounting the tweeter to them) turned out to be pretty simple. I differed from Zaph's mounting concept since the tweeters are glued in place with a high quality epoxy.
I sometimes think the W/G part scares some from this design ???

Todd

[stangbat]

Actualy the glossy look is just the oil stain. I put on three light coats to get the color I wanted and it has a glossy look. The poly will go on this weekend with the HVLP sray gun. These should look very good after the poly, I cant decide if I should do Gloss or Semi gloss. What did you use on yours.

I used semi-gloss. I'm not very experienced with finishes so gloss scares me. I had a hard enough time with the semi-gloss. I'll have to pick your brain on using a spray gun sometime.

[Blktre]

I used semi-gloss. I'm not very experienced with finishes so gloss scares me. I had a hard enough time with the semi-gloss. I'll have to pick your brain on using a spray gun sometime.

Just takes a certain tip. I'm kicking myself for not getting they guy who sprayed my bar w/10 coats of waterproof lacquer. I'm sure he could of had tons of advice on what to spray and done a masterful job. Always next time!