7" and 9" Guns?

[David Meek]

Let's get things rolling!

I'm sorta seriously looking at an RPTV. My preference at this point is a Pioneer Elite 510 (53") or 610 (58"). The question is this. Is there anyone coming out with a comparable screen size with a 9" gun? Or, does the smaller screen size (53-58") make a 9" gun overkill?

I'm hoping the 9" gun isn't going to be available, 'cuz I know that it'll cost mucho dinero compared to the 7" models out there, and I'd be forced to seriously consider it if it exists.




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[David Meek]

Sorry about the smileys. I can't edit them out at the moment.

-David-

PS. Ahhhhh, much better now! Thanks Mats.

[Mats]

Oops... Sorry about that...
Next time you post an inch value within ( ) it will not make a smiley anymore... hopefully...




Mats
HTGuide

[Lexman]

David, great question! Yes, let's rumble! lol.

Now, as far as Pioneer, in the Elite line, I have "nothing but love for them". My PRO-119 has been an outstanding performer, never skipped a beat. Image is vivid and lifelike on DVD, and I cannot think that the new HD models would be anything short of spectacular. I really don't know the full ramifications of the gun differences. But even with 7", the Elite will be hard to beat. I always said that my Elite looked more like a direct view set than an RPTV, and many in the industry maintained that about them prior to the HD era. But now, I realize, that things have changed, but for the better!

Lex

[David Meek]

Lex,

Coincidently, my Home Theater mag just arrived in the mail complete with a review of the 610. Haven't had time to do more than skim it, but it seems like they had lots of good things to say about it, too.

The one thing (other than the chunk of change needed) that keeps me from rushing right out is the problem of displaying a progressive-scan image in Fullscreen mode. I'd like to move up to a progressive DVD, but not if I have to deal with that.

Let's see, the 119 is the 16:10 (?) version of the Elite series isn't it? How do you like that screen shape?

-David-

[JonMarsh]

Nine inch guns (not to be confused with Nine Inch Nails!) offer two main advantages, and one major disadvantage.

Advantages:
1) Higher light output; larger raster area, and can achieve better light output without pushing the phosphor as hard (i.e., better tube life). This is the main reason that 9" guns are used in a few RPTV's, such as the biggest Mitsubishi, top of the line Zenith model. It's also why some of the larger Toshiba's use 8" guns.
2) Beam spot size is a smaller portion of the total raster, which means that higher resolutions can be used without scanning overlap. This is rarely an issue with RPTV's, but is a major reason for the big guns and big prices in the top FPTV modesl.

Disadvantage: Cost!

Most RPTV's aren't designed to support over nominal "HDTV" resolutions (1080i, 540P, 480P), and most won't even do the one "demanding" HDTV resolution (1280X720P) (which happens to be my favorite). Regrettably, RPTV's are rarely setup from the factory with regards to convergence and geometry to even do a good job meeting the standard NTSC specs- that's why those nice ISF guys can make a half way decent living calibrating TV's to reach their real potential!
Should you go the RPTV route (been their, done that, it's in my daughter's bedroom, now, and she loves it), one of the best investments you can make is $40 or so for the service manual, plus a copy of AVIA, so that you can get the set up to it's basic potential in a long afternoon or evening. It was well worth it for my Toshiba. Pioneer's seem to be a bit better setup than most out of the box, but judging from what I've seen at dealers, there's still room for improvement.

Regards,

Jon

[David Meek]

Jon,

Thanks for the good info. One question though. I have the Video Essentials DVD already. Is there something exclusive to the Avia disc that you recommend, or is VE a legit alternative? It made a MAJOR difference in the quality of the picture on our current 36" Mits.




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[JonMarsh]

Video Essentials is very useful, but I've found AVIA to be more complete. The most obvious differences, are the inclusion of test/evaluation techniques specific to fixed panel projectors (LCD, DLP, etc), as well as for CRT. Also, AVIA has better (IMO) color adjustment test screens, and inlcudes all three color filters, not just a blue one. Plus, the moving bar tests which AVIA uses for contrast and black level setting, without requiring a DVD player that passes black below pluge level (below 7.5 IRE).
So, to summarize, it's more complete and easier to use for most people.




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[Will Binegar]

As Jon pointed out, the 73" Mitsubishi and 65" (I think) Zenith are the only sets so far that have 9" guns. It's been reported that to fully resolve 1080i, 9" guns are required. With these screen sizes and at your viewing distance, can you tell the difference with the larger guns? Beats me. I took a serious look at the Mitsubishi 73905 (before ultimately finding a great deal on a Toshiba 65X81), but I could never really do a side-by-side comparison of HD performance.

[Lexman]

David, looks like I dropped the ball on this thread, but Jon more than made up for it Thanks Jon. Jon is really a video expert. Myself, just a hacker, lol. Nice assist too Will.

I haven't read about the new Elite as yet-

Lex





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[JonMarsh]

Will raises a very good point. The big Toshiba's with 8" guns do a very nice job.
Now, purely as a speculative issue, which do you think would look better, or resolve more: a Zenith or Mits with the factory convergence and geometry setup, or a Toshiba that's been ISF'd and totally "blueprinted" after a hundred hours of burn in in the customer's home? Yeah, I know, I know, it's a trick question. But, it shows how you should carefully consider ALL aspects of your investment in the set- including after purchase alignment.

Now, last trick question- (your homework assignments for the weekend) which is more important- fretting about the full 1920 luminance resolution with 9" guns, or doing a through calibration and assuring that you're getting the full 960 lines of chroma resolution for HDTV and DVD sources- probably with an HTPC for the latter?

Have a happy Labor Day Weekend, everyone!

Regards,

Jon

[KennyG]

Looks like you've stumped everyone with that last trick question!...I'll take a guess...(this is hard!)...I'll take,,,calibration!
Even the lowly 7" gun will look better than 9's if the 7's are calibrated correctly!!!
Do I win a prize?

[David Meek]

Jon, I'll go with. . . . ISF calibrated! How'd I do?

Kenny, if you do, I'm claiming 50%! "Thread-starter's rights" ya know?

Thanks to all for the responses. I'm still looking. Considering everything written here, mag reviews and my personal viewing experiences, the Pro 610 still seems to be the best choice for me overall.

-David-

[JonMarsh]

Kenny and David both win!!!

They each get 50% of full bragging rights associated; unfortunately, no physical prizes have been allocated!

Good luck in your hunt, David!

-Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....