HELP WANTED: Time to OVERHAUL !!

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  • Little Bruce
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2000
    • 166

    HELP WANTED: Time to OVERHAUL !!

    A fine idea from a fore-father of the forum....
    my own little post....lol
    Anyway, calling out to all HT pro's....
    Budget: $2000 to start
    When: as soon as wife releases funds...lol :B
    (by 1st of year will compile forums advice and recommendations and make final purchases)
    Wants: T.V.(32" min.); dvd (brand,model?); receiver (must have dts,etc..); amp (???)
    speakers(dont know where to start, HATE BOSE!)
    sub (?)
    Setup area: living room is rectangular,14x20,
    part cathedral, large hand-made oak entertainment center
    And thats the bottom line..........8)




  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    #2
    Okay we can have some fun with this one Have you started looking at speakers at all? What have you seen/heard that you liked? What are your musical tastes..are looks important (ie can you go large tower mains or are we looking at bookshlef speakers or micro's etc)




    Comment

    • Paul_C
      Junior Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 10

      #3
      Would you consider building your own speakers? It would save you hundreds of dollars (assuming you have access to tools) and would stretch your budget a long way.

      Paul.

      Comment

      • Lexman
        Super Senior Member
        • Jun 2000
        • 1777

        #4
        Bruce, how about:

        Pioneer Elite 24-TX THX, DD, DTS, good receiver with good power and output. $600~

        200 buck DVD player to start (maybe used?) I have a great A110 that I would sell you.

        TV, check pawn shops for good 32" buy. Sometimes they have lots of great buys, like my 27" Toshiba for 185 bucks. Yours, maybe 3-400 for late model 32".
        Speakers, That leaves you 8-900 bucks left for a decent package with a sub. I am going to leave these recommendations up to others. Almost half your budget, and I think that's the right price mix. Of course, if you could spare another 500, that would be even better. I firmly believe you cannot have "to good a speaker" for the above gear. So, get all you can afford. Paradigm, Energy, B & W, Klipsch, etc...

        DYI kit speakers if your up for it.

        Lex

        Comment

        • KennyG
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Sep 2000
          • 745

          #5
          The best way to get the most from your money is as Lex says...used!!!
          I'd seriously look at his panasonic DVD player, then I'd look at "audioreview" of "audiogon" they have thousands of used amps and pre/pros!!! I can pick up a good 5 channel amp for around $500...and amps are very hard to abuse, unless you short the outputs together, and anyone who owns seperates is smarter than that.
          In fact I may be selling my Carver 5 channel soon! I have a Sumo 2 channel and am hoping to get a Aragon 8008X3, so the Carver will not be needed anymore.
          Then I'd talk to Thomas, our resident speaker builder, take a look at some of the beautiful pictures he's posted in the DIY section. Don't quote me on prices, but I'd say you can build a $5,000 set of speakers for around $1,500 or less!!! Now that's real "bang-for-the-buck"!!!!

          Comment

          • Little Bruce
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2000
            • 166

            #6
            Howdy, yall......
            My dad and I looked into some pre-fab diy speaker plans. Dont remember prices. I do know mdf is very expensive and the tablesaw and skill saw we have are old as dirt and wouldnt think of putting any high quality materials on those tools. :S
            My dad on his own went as so far to acquiring some decent tools for construction... after costs of plans and mdf and hardware, he decided on some clearanced speakers from radio shack.....lol:B
            To be honest, my experience with speaker setups is limited to setups in sound rooms in such places as Circut City. Systems in such retail stores are decieving in sound quality some times.
            They do carry klipsh, pioneer, sony and bose (yech!) as I am sure sometime or another everyone has seen and heard.
            I have been to one specialized H.T. convention. Most equipment is only for dreamers....lol
            Lot of decent speakers but they tend to start at $150-200 apiece for just mains.
            I quess my best bet is to look for a decent complete speaker setup and seperate sub.
            I am almost getting frustrated just thinking about it.......lol:M
            I guess I need to start collecting cans ......:B




            Comment

            • Little Bruce
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2000
              • 166

              #7
              Second thought.....
              the mains I have now are 18 year old Bertagni Electroacustic System BM250's (BES for short),
              ratty sounding rca rears and that old passive sub.
              Towers would be just lovely for my room dimensions but oversized or bulky speakers (over 4ft.tall) wouldnt really work well...
              My living room as said earlier is 14x20. My current system is setup up on the west wall (the long side of the room) and couch is on the opposite wall. Mains are currently about 8ft apart but only approx. 6-7 ft. from couch.
              I have swapped room around where entertainment stand is on the south wall (short side). the mains was still approx 6-7ft apart but couch was approx.12ft from mains. Maybe this a hard way to describe my room but i do not own a scanner at this time. There is ample room for towers but cost is definitely a factor.
              OK HT pros..... do some magic !!!!!!!! :B




              Comment

              • Little Bruce
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2000
                • 166

                #8
                Kenny,
                Thanks for the wise words....
                Fill me in on your Carver.... not really familiar with amps to be honest..
                The only amp I have owned was an old 200 watt 2 channel noname. Died few years ago.
                Any quality hardware i can pick up used that is backed by a upper level forum member sounds like a cool deal.
                Bruce




                Comment

                • Andrew Pratt
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 16507

                  #9
                  you might try looking at some of the "b" stock Marantz products on the stereo trader site TSTO they have some sweet deals on the Marantz 7000 and such that would be a great start.




                  Comment

                  • KennyG
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Sep 2000
                    • 745

                    #10
                    After reading your latest posts the Carver is alot more amp than you need, or seem to want at this time.
                    When you start buying seperates (amps and pre/pro's) you are starting to move into a "higher" end system. $200 ea. speakers are more in the small to mid size reciever range, and a mid size reciever that does 5.1 can be had for $500 or less...which is the cost of a used 5 channel amp.
                    Don't forget after buying the amp you must still buy the pre/pro, which even used is going to be another $500...MINIMUM!!!
                    So in your situation I'd say go with a reciever.
                    The only way I'd suggest a seperate amp is:
                    1) You really have the HT bug and know that eventually you'll be moving up to a high end system
                    2) You own, or are planning to buy a receiver that has "pre-outs" on it, so the amp can be used now.
                    3) Spending several thousand dollars on speakers does not seem like an outrage. (my mains retail for $5,600 a pair, and they're worth every cent of it)
                    I'm not saying that's how much you have to spend, that's just the mindset you need.
                    Once you get into highend sound there's a definite price point where money spent does not improve sound, equal to that cash outlay...In other words money spent vs improved sound is not linear, after a certain price point, large cash outlays are needed for marginally better sound.
                    As far as building your own speakers, you can buy driver/ crossover kits, then have a cabinet shop cut all your cabinets. You would then glue and screw them together yourself. 1" MDF is not very expensive maybe $35 per 4X8 sheet? Thomas would know this better, he builds very high end speakers.
                    P.S. check the "DIY resource thread" over in the DIY section, Thomas has posted many, many great sites for parts and help!!!

                    Comment

                    • ThomasW
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 10934

                      #11
                      If you do want to build your own speakers I'd recommend starting with these. They are shielded.


                      They are slightly above your $200 budget. But unlike what you are looking at for a retail price of $200, that actually cost $25 to manufacture, these are real speakers, not retail "fluff"

                      They can later be used as surrounds and the bigger double 8" model can be made for mains. And in the end you'll have a completely matched set.

                      If you bought these speakers assembled at retail they would cost $350+ea

                      There is a link on the website to a very thorough set of plans.




                      theAudioWorx
                      Klone-Audio

                      IB subwoofer FAQ page


                      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                      Comment

                      • Little Bruce
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2000
                        • 166

                        #12
                        Howdy yall....
                        Thanks for the replies....so far the ideas are streaming from thy head. :B
                        I definitely will be going the high-end reciever line since I cant afford the pro/pro/amp aspects. :S
                        But hey, it is a good start i think. Lex and I conversed.... and I think that I will aquire his dvd. I am still having troubles finding accurate info and pricing for the pioneer elite-24...any links yall for prices and info?
                        Seems new models are superceeding all the time.




                        Comment

                        • bigbruce
                          Junior Member
                          • Sep 2000
                          • 3

                          #13
                          ps: go slow....
                          also check out www.poorhouse.com




                          Bruce aka zzatt
                          Bruce aka zzatt

                          Comment

                          • Little Bruce
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2000
                            • 166

                            #14
                            Hey Big Bruce.....
                            You only live once.......:B




                            Comment

                            • KennyG
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Sep 2000
                              • 745

                              #15
                              BigBruce is right (aren't they all? )
                              Go slow, take your time and read, read, read...start learning the basics of HT and Audio reproduction. Learn the important things, all the "bells and whistles" are nice, but the most important thing for a beginner is your amplifier section. If you like to listen loud, "amplifier clipping" is a speaker killer!!! This is especially true with small to mid size recievers! So start to understand "Watts per channel", "headroom", and the killer..."amp clipping", of course that's just the beginning.
                              As long as you enjoy HT and/or 2 channel audio there's always something to learn.
                              The more you know, and more intelligent your decisions will be, and the better your system will fit you.

                              Comment

                              • John Beavers
                                Member
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 34

                                #16
                                Another good place to check for deals is AudioAdvisor. Sometimes they've got some pretty sweet ones...like these



                                Comment

                                • Little Bruce
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Sep 2000
                                  • 166

                                  #17
                                  Wanted:

                                  APB out for a Denon 4800.....

                                  Doubt to find one though...every review read on this model everybody loves to death and sincerely doubt they would give it up, and for a good price.
                                  ($1400-1600 new, slightly over budget




                                  Comment

                                  • KennyG
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Sep 2000
                                    • 745

                                    #18
                                    There are two companies that make recievers worth considering even if they take you overbudget...Denon and Pioneer's Elite line.
                                    Just postphone the purchase until their "inbudget", you won't be sorry.
                                    Next to your speakers the amplifier is the most important piece of the puzzle, because it has the hardest job, driving a reactive load, an amp's load is constantly changing, and not only is the speakers impedance in constant flux, but the speakers motor (voice coil) is generating it's own electrical signal and trying to send it back at the amp!!!

                                    Comment

                                    • KennyG
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Sep 2000
                                      • 745

                                      #19
                                      Hey, check this out!!!
                                      I'm not up to speed on recievers, but I was at "audioreview", checking on aragon power amps and came across a Pioneer Elite VSX-24TX, that's 3 weeks old for $500, like I said I'm not up on recievers, but this might be a good deal, and in a price range that's easy to handle.
                                      If your interested go to "www.audioreview.com", clich on the "classified section", then on "daily market" (that's the market for sunday only), if you don't get this until tomorrow (monday) then just click on the "recievers" section, it should be near the top.

                                      Comment

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