directional HDMI cable

[KRC]

As with alot of interconnects and speaker cables say they are directional (ie follow the arrows), would an HDMI cable also be directional.

By adding one of those couplers to an HDMI cable (DVI to HDMI/HDMI), does it take away from the quality of the sound. I was told in the past that everytime you add a connector etc, you are adding distortion and reducing clarity.....any thoughts?

Kevin

[Sdiver2489]

I am not aware of any speaker cables that are directional...

I have seen a "directional" subwoofer cable but that is about the extent of that. And no, HDMI cables aren't directional.

As for your second question, no, it won't make a bit of difference to your sound's clarity.

[PewterTA]

No cable is "technically" directional... If it goes one way, it'll go the other...

However, some cables, like when you get CAT cables are put on a cable cooker and it tends to align the molecules in the cable so that one direction transmits better than another direction. Though again, you can put that in reverse and it works perfectly.

[bigburner]

Directional cables and interconnects = voodoo science. Just ignore that nonsense.

Then again, who knows? Maybe aliens do abduct people and conduct experiments on them?

[wkhanna]

I have read that for some RCA type single ended interconnects, depending on the brand, the arrow designates which end of the cable the shielding terminated on.

Edit: I don't worry about cables, though, cuz I get Doug's CatCables, best bang for the buck, and the quality and performance can't be matched at 3X the cost.

[bigburner]

I have read that for some RCA type single ended interconnects, depending on the brand, the arrow designates which end of the cable the shielding terminated on.

Hi wkhanna,

A while ago I filed the following explanantion from our fellow HTG member brucek. Are there any EEs out there who would like to comment?

Nigel.

I'll give you my take on directional cables.

You have to remember that the signal on an audio cable is alternating current (AC). This means it swings both positive and negative. If the signal is allowed to only pass in one direction, then unfortunately the AC signal would be rectified. You wouldn't like to hear the sound that results from that. Any modification of the signal in a specific direction would alter the signal and the resultant sound - so of course that isn't what directional cables are all about. It has to do with reducing noise - but the science behind it is somewhat dubious.

If you disassemble a directional cable, you'll find that the coax has a twisted pair (two wires) in its core (instead of the usual single conductor) surrounded by the shield. The latter being the accepted method of transmitting a single ended, low level signal across a high impedance connection. This single core coax is a perfect cable to do the job. The center wire carries the signal on its core and the grounded shield provides a current carrying return path to complete the circuit and protect the core signal. A perfect situation. Why upset this situation with running two core wires and a disconnected shield. It provides no advantage.

The circuit of a directional cable is completed by connecting one conductor of the 'pair' to the center pin and the other conductor of the 'pair' to the case ground of the RCA connector. Now you have your required completed loop circuit. In a conventional interconnect the signal loop consists of the center conductor with a return path through the shield.

In a directional cable the shield surrounding the 'pair' is connected only on one end to the case ground of the RCA. The rather weak theory is that any RFI/EMI will be picked up by the shield and passed to connected ground end. You'll find the arrow pointing away from the shield connection point. Again, the theory is that the arrows point away from the source.

Well, as you've likely guessed if you've taken even a first year electronics course, you know the theory is flawed. Because, even if you did buy into the theory that electrons will flow in an open ended disconnected wire attached to ground at one end, and you believed that the shield will transfer the noise it picks up to the end of the cable where the shield is connected to ground, then what would stop this noise from travelling in the ground conductor of the 'pair' inside the cable, over to the equipment it's connected to. Well, nothing of course.

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that directional cables work, so I won't refute that. For some people they seem to provide some benefit.

brucek

[Alaric]

Just for s & g the flow of electrons goes from the ground (-) to the positive (+). As much as gearheads like to pick on Mr. Lucas , he was right. Current flow is directional-and most amateurs have it wrong. Having made that point , I really don't give a crap "how" a cable is built. My concern is how it sounds. Based on that , I agree w/wkhanna. My CATs sound great after A/B tests with much more expensive cables. You can skip the EE degree and just buy Doug's cables and be done with it. My $.02.

[bigburner]

With the oil of Aphrodite, and the dust of the Grand Wazoo
He said "You might not believe this, little fella,
But these cables will cure your asthma too".

With apologies to Frank Zappa.

[Lex]

actually, wkhanna is correct, Catcables analog cables that are shielded, are not only directionally marked for cooking, but also for shielding. We float the ground at the receiving end of the signal. the theory here is nasty rfi or emi interferance can then roll off, if only grounded at the source. There is a ground, but the shield doesn't connect at both ends. Certainly vodoo experts can shoot holes in that theory. I frankly don't give a damn. I follow generally accepted standards in the cable industry for floating grounds on shielded cables.

Other than that, directional arrows are also useful as identifiers when looking behind a system, you readily see an output vs input indicator that way-

We also directionally mark speaker cables. We do not directionally mark HDMI cables, but we do directionally mark component video.

[bigburner]

Thanks Doug. I'm interested in this because hi-fi isn't voodoo or even art. It's science. We wouldn't be enjoying this hobby if it weren't for science. When people stop questioning why things happen or why things are done the way they are, then hi-fi becomes an art or even worse voodoo.

Nigel.

[Lex]

sure Nigel, well maybe a small part is art, but certainly not voo doo. There has to be a little art in my Sonus faber Extrema speakers. the creative aspect of the speaker helps me to love them before they even make a sound. This opens my mind and prepares me to be lured into the music, it sets the stage. If they looked like quaker oats cans, well they may not command as much respect right off.

As to cables, as you know, I've sold cables from a practicality standpoint, we do build for sound quality, but build for build quality too, in the end, it's common sense design, at an affordable cost that yields performance. Win win win.

It is unfortunate that unless something changes soon, I may not continue making cables beyond 2008. Frankly, I'm tired of doing battle, trying to generate something, anything via price. If I have to cut my products to the bone to sell them, then it no longer makes sense for me to do so. Some people recognized my cost increases, and said they'd support CAT. But the sad fact is, my business tanked for December, and I don't know when or if it will make a comeback.

So, maybe I am the wrong guy to even comment on cables right now. I don't know.

[wkhanna]

As much as gearheads like to pick on Mr. Lucas .........

Totally off topic......

Hey Lee, as one old gearhead to another....did you hear about the Lucas vacuum cleaner that came out years ago??????????

The only thing they ever made that didn’t suck!!!!

[wkhanna]

I follow generally accepted standards in the cable industry for floating grounds on shielded cables.

We always used floating grounds on transducer (measuring device) wiring during high energy testing in the labs I have worked in to help reduce interference from EFI and RMI effecting the signal.

[bigburner]

We always used floating grounds on transducer (measuring device) wiring during high energy testing in the labs I have worked in to help reduce interference from EFI and RMI effecting the signal.

That's an interesting piece of information. Was that standard practice for everyone in the lab?

[bigburner]

It is unfortunate that unless something changes soon, I may not continue making cables beyond 2008. Frankly, I'm tired of doing battle, trying to generate something, anything via price. If I have to cut my products to the bone to sell them, then it no longer makes sense for me to do so. Some people recognized my cost increases, and said they'd support CAT. But the sad fact is, my business tanked for December, and I don't know when or if it will make a comeback.

So, maybe I am the wrong guy to even comment on cables right now. I don't know.

Doug, that's a shame to hear. Yours is not the only business under this sort of pressure at the moment.

My observation of the IT industry is that the companies which survive are the ones that constantly reinvent themselves. Take inspiration from a company like Apple. A few years ago they were a down-and-out personal computer company that looked unlikely to survive another quarter. Today they are the darlings of Wall Street with their personal music devices and other gizmos.

Reinventing yourself is easier said than done. If you can't think of anything I'd be happy to send you some oil of Aphrodite and the dust of the Grand Wazoo because they certainly seem to work for some companies.

All the best,
Nigel.

[Lex]

Nigel, thanks, well, I am sure my business is not the only one singing the blues, it's an entire market downturn it seems. I believe that oil costs are having a dramatic effect in the US.

As to reinventing, you are probably right, continue to do that for survival. The problem is, I am so small to begin with, working capital for these type operations gets thin as well as time. Part of my issue is perhaps lack of desire and intensity. We may survive it, then again, if it goes totally down it may not. Right now, I can't say it's to optimistic.

It's also a fine line. When really successful, I have little time for anything else besides cables and a day job. It does not leave much time for life. So, I made the decision, I didn't want so much business I couldn't keep up long ago, and I didn't care to try and expand and put myself "out there" with big company expenses. So, I've kept it close to the chest, and remained small. the good news is, not much expenses like this. The bad news is, I stretch to cover the expenses I do have, and stretch for inventory replenishment when little is coming in.

Maybe I need both the oil and the dust, whatever those are. :-) I'll looking for answers, the immediate answer is some cable sales. It's just when will those occur... I sold nothing for December. I mean nada, zip.

[Pookie007]

I got a set of set of speaker cables and love them, but that really doesn't do you any good. The problem is I would buy another set if I had a need for them, but I can't justify a need because I am happy with the cables I have.

I am thinking about getting a matching cable for the center channel. Maybe I will do that this January. I will run it by the finance committee. Doug, shoot me a message (or email) with the number to go 10' with single bananas at the amp end and 2 sets at the speaker end.

[PewterTA]

I think that's a lot of our problems, the cables are so good that most of us have replaced just about every cable in our system with Cat Cables...and one can only need SO many cables!

I'd have to say I've spent some pretty good $$$ on catcables and loved every cables I have. If I had need for more, I'd definitely without question get them...just have no new toys (atm) that need them.

Doug, you ever thought about trying to get into the power connection cables arena?

[Lex]

Thanks guys, my current situation certainly has nothing to do with not appreciating the customers we've had, I do. But like any retail business, outside of our reputation, we are only as good as our numbers. We do depend on new system development, growth, and replacement. There's no need to replace cats with cats, of course, I know the build quality of what I've built.

Thanks Pookie, I'll shoot you a line.

Pewter, you've supported us well, and I appreciate it.

As to power cables, I've considered it, but given the market position I'd enter at, I just don't feel that it would be that positive of a move for the somewhat limited market with a fairly low return.

[Alaric]

Totally off topic......

Hey Lee, as one old gearhead to another....did you hear about the Lucas vacuum cleaner that came out years ago??????????

The only thing they ever made that didn’t suck!!!!

They drink warm beer in England 'cuz Lucas makes refrigerators , and "Lucas-Prince Of Darkness!" I actually had a zener diode on an old BSA go in the rain once-WOW. A light show to do Pink Floyd proud! :E