Using a computer UPS on HT Gear?

[csuzor]

Hmm, just noticed that the smart UPS line is pure SINE wave....

Yes, I will be upgrading to the APC Smart-UPS soon, with true sine wave on battery. For the moment, I have a more basic unit, with stepped square wave during battery operation from what I can tell, not sure... none of my HT gear seems to complain when it does run on battery, but it's not ideal I'm sure. The Smar-UPS line has lots of different power options available.

[csuzor]

Let me shed some more light on this topic:

I measured the power requirements (5 speakers 89dB efficiency, driven full range, no sub, with heavy music (Sting SACD with deep bass thumps)):
1068 + 1075 + DVD-2200 (very low volume) = 130W
1068 + 1075 + DVD-2200 (normal volume) = 200W
1068 + 1075 + DVD-2200 (ridiculous volume 100dB+) = 350W
1068 + 1075 + DVD-2200 + big Sony TV + Satellite receiver (normal volumes) = 300W

For UPS selection, Power is approx VA x 0.7

The conclusion is that 500VA is just sufficient for all my gear (this was done without the UPS). I couldn't stand in the same room for the ridiculous volume, I used the remote through a window!). The 1075 is rated max 800W consumed, but that cannot be in a realistic setup, or you would have to be deaf!



Types of UPS protection and APC types (Merlin Gerin is very similar, I did not investigate other brands)

basic (standby type): 5% noise filter, battery gives simulated sine wave in steps, no voltage regulation. APC Back-UPS-CS

standard (line interactive type): 5% noise filter, battery gives simulated sine wave in steps, partial voltage regulation. APC Back-UPS-RS

standard plus (line interactive type): 5% noise filter, battery gives true sine wave, partial voltage regulation, additional batteries. APC Smart-UPS

HiFi: same as standard plus, but 0.3% noise filter and RMI/RFI filtering and coaxial line surge protection, sequenced plug start-up. APC AV-S

Advanced (double conversion online type): 0.3% noise filter, true sine wave output always, full voltage and frequency regulation always, additional batteries, overload auto switch to normal power. APC Smart-UPS-RT

Approximate pricing (1000VA)
basic: 200
standard: 250
standard plus: 400
HiFi: 1000
advanced: 650


The double-conversion-online models have full voltage regulation, not like the others which make a weak attempt to apply +-10% to the voltage to try to get it back to reasonable levels. They also have overload automatic switch to normal power, the other models may just shutdown or deliver clipped power (neither situation is desirable!)

My final conclusion is that I will buy the APC Smart-UPS-RT 1000VA, because we have fairly regular voltage dips in my area, and I have electrical heating and a big reversible air conditioner, which both cause significant voltage dips. I currently have the basic type UPS, and it regularly clicks into battery mode.
Note that the APC Smart-UPS-RT 1000VA no longer exists on APC site in USA, maybe it was too popular! I can still get it in France, maybe local resellers / online resellers still have them elsewhere. The 1500VA model is $900, but the 1000VA model is already double my expected maximum requirement for now, so it will be enough to drive the future sub as well.

I hope this makes the choice easier for some of you.

Cheers
Christophe

[aud19]

I was reading a bit more on the new APC HT models. They actually look pretty good... pure sine on battery, outputs for amps/subs etc, conditioning, noise reduction... yadda yadda, for around $400 (probably less if you can find wholesale or wheel and deal) :T I'm not sure what else you'd really need?

[ajpoe]

I was reading a bit more on the new APC HT models. They actually look pretty good... pure sine on battery, outputs for amps/subs etc, conditioning, noise reduction... yadda yadda, for around $400 (probably less if you can find wholesale or wheel and deal) :T I'm not sure what else you'd really need?

The H10 and H15 are $300 and $400 but they don't have battery backup. The S10 and S15 models have the battery backup but I'm sure they will cost quite a bit more. I can't find prices anywhere so I assume they aren't available yet.

Edit: Found the estimated prices "The S10 model will have an estimated resale price of $1,299, while the S15 model will be offered for $1,499. The extra battery pack will carry an estimated resale price of $499."

[Gordon Moore]

Great Post Christophe :T Thanks for the breakdown

[ThomasW]

Christophe,

I measured the power requirements (5 speakers 89dB efficiency, driven full range, no sub, with heavy music (Sting SACD with deep bass thumps)):
068 + 1075 + DVD-2200 (very low volume) = 130W
1068 + 1075 + DVD-2200 (normal volume) = 200W
1068 + 1075 + DVD-2200 (ridiculous volume 100dB+) = 350W
1068 + 1075 + DVD-2200 + big Sony TV + Satellite receiver (normal volumes) = 300W

I find those numbers extremely low for the transients peaks contained in most noncompressed digital recordings

What technique/instruments did you use to make these measurements? And were you able to distinguish between the average levels and the instantanous peak demand?

Thanks,
Thomas

[csuzor]

Christophe,
I find those numbers extremely low for the transients peaks contained in most noncompressed digital recordings

What technique/instruments did you use to make these measurements? And were you able to distinguish between the average levels and the instantanous peak demand?

Thomas, I used a digital power consumption meter, which seems to update the reading at least every second, so it is probably averaged for 1 sec. I had readings of VA or W(atts) or A(mps), here I have 220V so the amps were always < 4, and W was approx VA * 0.7. In the US with 100V, you would have 2x more Amps, but W and VA are identical.

The song I selected is typical pop music, consistent drums and noise and vocals and guitars, and fairly compressed (nothing like classical!). I believe that instantanous peaks are largely handled by the capacitors inside these amps, and these recharge after these peaks, so the 1s averaging seems reasonable (at ridiculous volumes, the oscillations were +-20w). Finally, you know these B&W are not very efficient, and the 1075 is not efficient either compared to the digital amps.

Anyway, I would apply a factor 2 to get a really safe margin, and if this is applied at measurements at this ridiculous volume, then it is probably at least a factor 3 safety for typical situations. UPS can also handle instantanous peaks in the same way. My current UPS would beep continuously in overload situation, and at 500VA it has never beeped (except when the power supply goes off)

[Claude D D]

As posted earlier, forget about using a ups built for a computer.APC has this beauty.You can even add extra battery units to it so you could finish whatching a movie if the power was out.Pretty cool.Retail in Canada is $2099.00
http://www.apc.com/products/apcav/pr...l&base_sku=S15 :T

[csuzor]

As posted earlier, this new series from APC is stylish, but not the best protection, and not the best value for money. The technology used is the AV series is Line Interactive, not Double Conversion, so you still get voltage and frequency variations, and pay 2x more for the style and other minor features (RMI/RFI filters and 12V triggers and delayed startup plugs). There is also the risk of cut-off in overload conditions, which doesnt happen with the APC Smart-UPS-RT series, so you should be careful about plugging high-power amps.
When well informed, everyone can then choose their preferences.

[Claude D D]

and pay 2x more for the style and other minor features

Hey aren't there people that buy houses and cars etc. that resemble that remark :W

so you should be careful about plugging high-power amps

If a guy was running a modest receiver based HT a ups might be fine.But I would never recommend running a high powered amp into a ups or even a line conditioner unless it could flow all the current the wall socket can deliver. :T

[aud19]

As posted earlier, this new series from APC is stylish, but not the best protection, and not the best value for money. The technology used is the AV series is Line Interactive, not Double Conversion, so you still get voltage and frequency variations, and pay 2x more for the style and other minor features (RMI/RFI filters and 12V triggers and delayed startup plugs). There is also the risk of cut-off in overload conditions, which doesnt happen with the APC Smart-UPS-RT series, so you should be careful about plugging high-power amps.
When well informed, everyone can then choose their preferences.

Where was this posted earlier? :scratchhead:

[csuzor]

Where was this posted earlier? :scratchhead:

At the risk of repeating myself, I posted these words in this thread. Note that I have no interest in recommending either the new APC AV models nor the Smart-UPS-RT models, I am just stating facts. There are good reasons to choose either model, or equivalent in other brands.

HiFi: same as standard plus, but 0.3% noise filter and RMI/RFI filtering and coaxial line surge protection, sequenced plug start-up. APC AV-S

Advanced (double conversion online type): 0.3% noise filter, true sine wave output always, full voltage and frequency regulation always, additional batteries, overload auto switch to normal power. APC Smart-UPS-RT

Approximate pricing (1000VA)
HiFi: 1000
advanced: 650

The double-conversion-online models have full voltage regulation, not like the others which make a weak attempt to apply +-10% to the voltage to try to get it back to reasonable levels. They also have overload automatic switch to normal power, the other models may just shutdown or deliver clipped power (neither situation is desirable!)