DVD audio and SACD questions....

[m_bathke]

I am looking into getting a new reciever and a DVD player and a few questions have arisen that no one I know seems to be able to answer.

If the reciever has DVD Audio and SACD capability will any dvd player work to support the formats or does one need to get a DVD player that supports DVD Audio and SACD also?

Also if you had a choice would you chose a Yamaha HTR-5890, a HTR-5860, or a Pioneer VSX-1015TX, or basically anything else that BestBuy sells for recievers. I ask that recommendations are limited to BestBuy's selection because I work there and I can get anything from there for a little over cost. I guess thats one of the perks of the job. I realize that unless anyone has one of the recievers listed that I won't get specific feedback, I am just looking for brand compairison really. I will eventually go to a pre and power setup but this will have to do until I get out of college .

I will be using DIY speakers that have a more difficult load ~4ohms, and that has really left me up in the air on this one.

Just tell me what you think..........

[Andrew M Ward]

If the reciever has DVD Audio and SACD capability will any dvd player work to support the formats or does one need to get a DVD player that supports DVD Audio and SACD also?

Both SACD and DVD-A require "capable" players, or player... Yamaha has a few universal type SACD DVD-A machines (right?)

[jimmyp58]

I am not sure if BB carries universal players though....

[Chris D]

Jim, I think you're right. I think they carry a couple players with SACD and DVD-A capability, but not combined.

And I'm pretty positive that Best Buy is NOT going to carry receivers with SACD or DVD-A decoding, which is very rare over only firewire and/or HDMI, not any other protocols. (i.e. high-end Denon) So MBathke, you're going to want to buy a receiver with 5.1 analog inputs so that a universal player can output this in analog.

[m_bathke]

Jimmy, you are right, Best Buy doesn't carry any universal players, but I wasn't looking at getting one from them because I wanted to go a little higher end than they are able to supply. I was actually looking at getting a universal player from Pioneer that retails for around $150, but I am not sure on the model.

I am definately going to get the reciever from them however because for what I can get them for it makes it extremely difficult to pass up.

All of the recievers I listed state in there specs that they have SACD and DVD-A decoders built in. Did I miss something or am I just misinturpreting the specs? Educate me PLEASE, this is something that has been bugging me for a while.

[Kens1]

If the specs qoute DAD-A and SACD decode capabilites than they probably have the multi inputs in the back to hook up a DVD-A or SACD or universal player. I believe this is becoming standard for most receivers (the analogue multi anyways). You will be able to use the player you choose.
I have the panasonic s97 dvd player that also supports dvd-a hooked into the multi input for dvd-a playback and a digital coax hooked into the dvd input for dvd playback. So it is just a matter of switching the input to multi to hear dvd-a.
As for powering your speakers I hope the receivers you listed have a lot of power because I don't think a lot of entry/ middle line receivers will be capable of powering 4 ohm speakers without eventually causing damage to the amplifier.

[Chris D]

mbathke, the terminology is important. If a receiver/processor (or DVD player for that matter) has DECODING capability for a particular audio format, it implies that it takes that format direct from the source (in digital format for DVD) and can interpret what the digital signal means and translate it into an audio signal that can be sent to speakers for playback. For example, most receivers now have DECODING capability for Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby Surround, and Dolby Pro Logic. All of those can be passed via a digital connection from your DVD player direct to your receiver for decoding and playback. Many receivers above the very cheapest level also add Dolby Digital 6.1 EX, DTS, and nowadays even things like Dolby Pro Logic II or DPL IIx.

However, I know of only 1-2 receivers currently that offer SACD and/or DVD-A DECODING. (i.e. the Denon 5805, $6000 MSRP) This is because the signal needs to be sent in a digital format again from the player to the receiver, but current protocols do not allow digital optical or coax. You have to use firewire, HDMI, or specialized connections which have to be specially designed for SACD or DVD-A transmission. I highly doubt that anything the mass public would buy for a receiver, (and thus Best Buy would carry) currently decodes SACD/DVD-A. But who knows... I could be wrong.

Now, many players can do DVD-A and SACD, but they put out the signal over 5.1 ANALOG outputs to analog inputs on your receiver. In general, analog inputs will receive ANY analog signal and play them. It's already been decoded by the player, so your receiver doesn't care where it came from--SACD, DVD-A, or even stuff like Windows Media, MP3, etc. So your receiver may be DVD-A and SACD CAPABLE because of 5.1 analog inputs, but that's just saying that you can receive any 5.1 analog signal that's already been decoded by something else.

(whew!)

[Stoney]

Here is a line from the HTR-5890 spec sheet.
"Wide-Range Audio Frequency Response for DVD-Audio/Super
Audio CD Compatibility"

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/HTIB/HTR5890.htm

[purplepeople]

"Wide-Range Audio Frequency Response for DVD-Audio/Super
Audio CD Compatibility"

Don't be fooled by marketing jargon like that. Sony recommends that speakers for SACD (and thus amplifiers and line stages) be capable of at least 20Hz - 50kHz frequency response. That requires an ultra expensive tweeter that most people will never even notice, myself included. I wouldn't be surprised if the receiver you buy has freq response specs for the pre-amp stage from 20Hz-20kHz and specs for the amplifer stage from 20Hz-100kHz. The spec that is often not available is how un-flat the signal is over that range and at what power output. For example, my old Sansui receiver can deliver a 1 watt output continuously from 10Hz-50kHz +1/-3dB. That will put it at about 10Hz-30kHz +/-1dB. That's better than 99% of all speakers.

Look for THD spec under 0.1% and SNR > 90dB and you generally can't go wrong. I cannot recommend Yamaha receivers... IME, they have generally been quite noisy compared with other units at the same price point. Try this test... with nothing playing, run the volume to max. There should be no sound coming from the speakers. Any hiss is what's called the noise floor and will always be there in the background dirtying up the output.

If you have to compromise, my advice is to buy a higher quality unit with lower output power and fewer bells and whistles. Remember that DVD's are mostly available only in Dolby Digital 5.1... who cares if it's 7.1 ready or it can flip between 17 different sources. You will have maybe 6 sources... 2 hi-res players, both of which also play CDs, maybe TIVO and/or cable/dish and maybe your PC and a game system.

As I say to a lot of people who ask me about technology... if it doesn't do the core function very well, what good are the extras? In audio, it's the silences between dialogue where a good system can (not) be heard.

As for hi-res players, Chris is correct. Most hi-res players have only analog 6-channel output and do the decoding within the player. The receivers only need to have the same 6-channel RCA inputs.

(whew)

ensen.

[Chris D]

Stoney, perfect example there. If you read the owner's manual for that receiver, you'll see that on page 17 it says "you can use the digital jacks to input PCM, Dolby Digital, and DTS bitstreams."

On page 19, it tells you how to configure the 6 analog inputs jacks (5.1) to receive already-decoded signals from a DVD player. This is how you would play SACD/DVD-A with this receiver. Notice that it says nothing about DECODING SACD/DVD-A.

Matter of fact, I can't find SACD or DVD-A mentioned ANYWHERE in the manual at all. What the statement you point out seems to imply is that since the receiver is rated for a 20Hz - 100 KHz frequency response, it is compatible with SACD/DVD-A signals input through the analog audio jacks. (these signals do go up to and beyond 100Khz sometimes, although I don't know why... the human ear can only hear up to 20Khz)

Statements like these on audio equipment can be very misleading, making one think that it has SACD/DVD-A capability. In fact, it has NOTHING to do with those audio formats. You can import ANY audio format that has been already decoded through the analog inputs.

[Stoney]

You guys caught my point and explained it perfectly, thanks. I also could find no mention of DVD-A or SACD in the manual. The line from the spec sheet is kind of like the "digital ready" speakers you see. Sounds cool, but is, for all practical purposes, meaningless.

[aud19]

Yamaha has a new 5-disc carousel, universal player coming out. It was well reviewed in Home Theater Mag. last issue

[m_bathke]

ok, so all I have to do is get a reciever with the multi channel in, thats easy enough.

The Pioneer universal player that I am looking at getting is the DV-578A-S which sells for around $150.

Any suggests for universal players in this price range are more than welcome.

Thanks for all of the input

[Chris D]

mbathke, you got it. As far as universals in that price point, I think the Pioneer is going to be your best bet. There's not much at that price point, as most universals are much more than that.

[Snap]

Yup lots more.

[FiveMillion2One]

I am looking into getting a new reciever and a DVD player and a few questions have arisen that no one I know seems to be able to answer.

If the reciever has DVD Audio and SACD capability will any dvd player work to support the formats or does one need to get a DVD player that supports DVD Audio and SACD also?

Also if you had a choice would you chose a Yamaha HTR-5890, a HTR-5860, or a Pioneer VSX-1015TX, or basically anything else that BestBuy sells for recievers.
Just tell me what you think..........

As far as those receivers go I would say best buy isn't high end. They have to mark stuff up in order to make a profit. I would say find the best receiver online and froogle it for the best deal. There are so many outlets. I got a 1200.00 receiver for 299.00 by doing research. While the receivers are good they are not the best. As far as your dvd player goes Best Buy does offer universal players that do the job well. Bass management has always plagued players that process both dvda/sacd, but mine does the job pretty well. The Pioneer DVD-536A is one player that cost 199. That was two years ago, but I know it was replaced by the 636 model for about the same or a little less. Rather then just settle for your discount from your employer why not try and get something better for the same price. kennywayne9@yahoo.com is my e-mail address, send me a message and I'll tell you how.

[Sindhu]

As far as I know for copyright restirctions SACD and DVD-A signals cannot be output in a digital form from any "commercially" available equipment. You will surely need a DVD player which can read & decode SACD & DVD-A discs. Use the analog (5.1) output and input it in the receiver. Since it is receving a decoded signal it will play it.

I am aware that Denon has Denon Link 3rd Ed on the anvil for approval in fact AVR 3805 and the higher end models are 3rd Ed enabled -- meaning they can handle digital SACD & DVD-A signals. But none of the DVD player are enabled to output digital SACD / DVD-A signals !!!

Regards

Sid

[gimpy]

m_bathke, the new Pioneer 588 is out and is in your price range (mine was $132.99 delivered). I just received mine about 3 weeks ago. It is hooked up to a Yammie RX-V 630. Pretty simple to hook up to the receiver. The two front speakers are 4 ohm, with the others (main and surrounds) 8 ohms. My Yammie has a switch on the back that lets it drive this type of configuration. I have not calibrated it using a meter, yet. What I notice is that when I use two channel (stereo, using my two mains) only, I have to kick the sound up quite a bit, when compared to the 5.1 channel, to get the same level of sound. Not sure why this is.

This combination does put out pretty good sound via sacd, at least good enough for my ears (which definitely are not audiophile ears ). I really enjoy the multi channel format that it plays. I will be buying most of my cd's in sacd format from now on.
(edit)--to play sacd on my Yamaha, you have to use the "6 channel" input button rather than dd or dts, etc. Also, a review in the "Secrets" review (a review I have seen on the internet) has given the Pioneer 588 pretty decent reviews.--(end of edit)
hth, regards, Frank

[Nick M]

Lol, 50kHz. I can't even hear a 20kHz signal. My hearing tops out somewhere around 18kHz. Unless you need accurate reproduction of dog whistles or something... :rofl:

[taz13]

I just picked up the Samsung HD841 which does both dvd-A and SACD for 135 cdn plus tax and shipping total about 150.00

http://www.samsung.ca/cgi-bin/nasecabc/en/b2c/product/product_detail.jsp?LoginFlag=NO&prod_id=DVD-HD841/XAC