CDs not sounding so hot...

[Nick M]

Man, I just popped in some CDs today for the first time in a long while and they're not sounding so hot. DD/DTS decoded by my pre/pro, and DVD-A/SACD processed by my universal player all sound fantastic.

I tried using both the player's and the pre/pro's processing and neither seem to produce the sound to my taste. I don't know if it's me, my equipment, or the media. :nonod:

[Brandon B]

edit: sorry my post resulted from too quick a reading of yours.

BB

[csuzor]

Nicholas,
are you experiencing "lack of high definition and clarity syndrome"??

I like SACD multichannel, but I can still live with plain CD for some well-recorded albums (~10% of my CD collection), mostly listened with DTS Neo Music.

From what I have been reading in the specialized press, a high-end CD player ($3000+) comes close to a good SACD player ($1000+) (probably same for DVD-A), but these audiophiles still consider the sound quality of SACD to be superior (but they emphasize that the CD capability of the SACD players is inferior to the CD only players)

[Andrew Pratt]

Welcome to the world of good equipement. It seems as we chase that elusive path to audio enlightenment the media that's acceptable grows smaller and smaller...at least if you're assuming that every CD should sound perfect. Just remember that a good song is a good song regardless of if its played back on a $$$$ system or a clock radio

[Patt]

Hi Nicholas...When I put a regular cd in my 2900 it sounds great..and when I put in an sacd it sounds even better!

Have you made any changes in the the menus/controls on the 2900? maybe something is out of adjustment. Have you made any other changes lately?

[NMyTree]

Just remember that a good song is a good song regardless of if its played back on a $$$$ system or a clock radio

Exactly!

I think Nicholas has spoiled himself listening to all those SACD and DVD-Audio discs. I love them too, but they can (if you're not careful) raise your acceptance threshold.


In the 80s I use to listen to Truimph's Just A Game album, on cassette, on a crappy little panasonic "boom box" and I loved every single second of that album. A few weeks ago I bought the 24 bit Remaster of Just A Game, and it sounds fantastic! But no matter what, any time, any where, on any music providing source, when I hear....... Lay It On The Line, Young Enough To Cry, Suitcase Blues....American Girls....etc; I still love every single second of that album.

Just enjoy the music.

[mtodde]

Are you using analog interconnects, digital coax or fiber? You may find some difference in the sound going out analog into the CD input versus digital. I have been experimenting between coax & analog myself. If you go out digital then you are doing your decoding in your pre rather than the 2900.

The 2900 is generally regarded as an acceptable Redbook CD player, but it is not an audiophile CD player by any means. I've just started looking at the Music Hall & Onix CD players for Redbook playback.

[Nick M]

As I posted above, I've tried both analog output from the 2900 with my pre/pro in bypass as well as digital out via coax to my pre/pro. Neither seem up to snuff. I dunno. I'll just stick to my DVD-A/SACD titles... :P

[Kevin P]

What CDs are you trying? Some are better recorded than others.

I don't know if it's within your musical tastes, but try Diana Krall or Norah Jones. Their discs sound wonderful. Another disc to try is Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms. In 1985 it was one of the best sounding CDs, and the remaster is even better.

Other discs I think sound great include the Pure Moods series, Enya (pick one), Titanic soundtrack (also available in SACD, and I think I even saw a hybrid SACD version at the store).

I don't know if you're "into" any of those discs but trying one will tell you if it's the discs, your gear, or your ears that are the reason for your disappointment in your system's Redbook performance.

[Adz]

Get your 2900 modded for 2 channel play and your redbook CDs will sound a lot better.

[mtodde]

As I posted above, I've tried both analog output from the 2900 with my pre/pro in bypass as well as digital out via coax to my pre/pro. Neither seem up to snuff. I dunno. I'll just stick to my DVD-A/SACD titles... :P

Sorry, I must have skimmed over that part.

Adz is right that modding your player will improve the Redbook playback, but it will run about $1300 for the mods I want plus shipping 2 ways so I just ordered an Onix XCD-88 to try out. For $300 on sale it is worth a listen.

To be honest you could get a Benchmark DAC for less than the cost of modding your player and that would be a huge improvement...I've got one on my shopping list for my next round.

[Spearmint]

As I posted above, I've tried both analog output from the 2900 with my pre/pro in bypass as well as digital out via coax to my pre/pro. Neither seem up to snuff. I dunno. I'll just stick to my DVD-A/SACD titles... :P

Hi Nicholas,

I went through this dilemma a couple of months ago, after getting back into 2ch music after a long absence, I too was not happy with how my Denon 3805 and Denon 3910 sounded on 2ch, fantastic for HT and multi-channel audio.

After a bit of researching and listening, I bought the Rotel RCD1072 CD player, and although this made a big improvement I was still not satisfied. I then changed the Denon 3805 to a Rotel RSP1098, and this was like night & day in the 2ch stakes IMO. Since then I have added a Benchmark DAC1, and now I am so happy with both 2ch & HT.

Just to let you know how happy I am I buy mainly Hybrid SACD's so I can play them via 2ch.

Here is a thread on the DAC1

[Patt]

Underwood Wally looks like a decent place for modifications and that Benchmark looks good too! The price of admission is up there but maybe it really would make a difference..?..$

I have a Blue Man Group cd that sounds weird on the last two tracks, like it skips. Only one giving me problems and I've cleaned it several times to no avail.

[fordster]

It could be because the 2900 is not very good as a CD player. It's better than most DVD players but not a patch on even a cheap CD player such as a Rotel RCD-02. It lacks clarity and presence in comparison. I used to have a 2800MkII and noticed a huge difference in 2 channel when I switched to a Rotel RDV1060. Not sure about DVDA though as the only 2 discs I've tried did not impress me. Not sure if it's my amplifier (old Denon 1602) or just me. One of the DVDA's (Sheryl Crow - Globe Sessions) I also have on CD and I think the CD version is miles better quality played on the same equipment.

[Patt]

Picture on the #2900 is excellent for the movies we watch.

Mmmm...there are also some pretty good DAC's out there from what I gather too.......decisions, decisions.
I know for sound it smokes a 130.00 Sony universal player, of course it should for the initial cost.

[PewterTA]

I agree, that playing a regular CD through a DVD player is where you're loosing the quality and that's why they just don't sound as good (not saying they will rival sacd/dvd-a).

I just bought the Dave Matthews Band "Stand Up" dual disc cd, I listened to the CD audio side in my Cambridge Audio 640c (analoged out to the 1098, through the 1095) and it (to my ears) sounded as good, if not better than the DVD side of the disc which has the whole album in enhanced 24-bit stereo. Now I was facinated that the DACs on the 640c made the CD version sound that good. I went back and forth about 6 times (so 6 songs listened to both versions), and still thought the CD side sounded better to my ears. Not that it was better persay to quality, but it just sounded to my ears more "analog-ish" and natural, where the 24-bit enhanced version sounded very digital and a slight bit harsh to my ears.

So it just goes to show (I think) what a difference a good DAC in a CD player can do (even if the CD player isn't super expensive).

I'd look into getting a CD player that will play your CDs better than your 2900 ever will.

[gostan]

I agree, that playing a regular CD through a DVD player is where you're loosing the quality and that's why they just don't sound as good (not saying they will rival sacd/dvd-a).

I just bought the Dave Matthews Band "Stand Up" dual disc cd, I listened to the CD audio side in my Cambridge Audio 640c (analoged out to the 1098, through the 1095) and it (to my ears) sounded as good, if not better than the DVD side of the disc which has the whole album in enhanced 24-bit stereo. Now I was facinated that the DACs on the 640c made the CD version sound that good. I went back and forth about 6 times (so 6 songs listened to both versions), and still thought the CD side sounded better to my ears. Not that it was better persay to quality, but it just sounded to my ears more "analog-ish" and natural, where the 24-bit enhanced version sounded very digital and a slight bit harsh to my ears.

So it just goes to show (I think) what a difference a good DAC in a CD player can do (even if the CD player isn't super expensive).

I'd look into getting a CD player that will play your CDs better than your 2900 ever will.

I find that my 2900 is a very adequate video source, a good mutli-channel audio source and a "so-so" CD source. The CD source inadequacies have been brought forward recently by my foray back to the land of vinyl and have caused me to investigate either upgrading the 2900 to a 3910 or to look into a separate cd only player. I am considering demoing an Arcam FMJ CD33, a Musical Fidelity A-5 and a Shanling CDT100 (unmoded or moded).

I have heard that the audio playback of the Denon 3910 exceeds that of the 2900 and I am curious if anybody has upgraded their 2900 to a 3910 and can comment about the audio performance of the two. And how would the same compare to the Arcam, MF or Shanling units.

I assume that any of the three would sound superior to the Denon, but they are also far more expensive. Are they worth the extra $$ or will an upgraded Denon be an acceptable improvement.

[jimmyp58]

ARCAM DV-29 & DV-79
Denon DVD-2900, DVD-5900, DVD-3910
Onkyo DV-SP1000

I have heard and or own all of these units. Here is my rating of the sonic performances of these (for multi-channel audio and DD/DTS, etc.):

1. ARCAM DV-29
2. Onkyo DV-SP1000
3. ARCAM DV-79
4. Denon DVD-3910
5. Denon DVD-5900
6. Denon DVD-2900

For two-channel:

1. ARCAM CD33
2. ARCAM DV-29
3. ARCAM DV-79
4. Onkyo DV-SP1000
5. Denon DVD-3910
6. Denon DVD-5900
7. Denon DVD-2900

I have not heard the others you mention gostan.

Jim

P.S. I did not rate the video section here.

[gostan]

Jim:

Thanks for your response. Now I have to go listen for myself. Are the Arcam units (dv29 and cd33) heads above the Denon 3910 for audio, or are the sound differences more subtle?

Stan

[jimmyp58]

I believe they sounded in-between significant and more than subtle. How's that for sittin' on the fence!

Seriously, my ears heard more than subtle but I wouldn't say stupendous or adjectives of that nature. There was a definite difference, certainly more than subtle, but certainly not 'night and day'.

Jim

[Chris D]

Jim, what's the scoop on the Sherwood Newcastle players? Gonna happen?

[jimmyp58]

Unfortunately, Sherwood-Newcastle is prone to over-hype just like most other manufacturers r.e. release dates of their products. Last I heard, two weeks ago, was that the SD-860 is due out first week of June and SD0871 is mid-July. The President of sales was very impressed with the SD-871 but wanted a couple more tweaks performed so back it went for updating.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Jim