Digital Vinyl ?

[wkhanna]

I do not own one, I have never even heard one…….

But for ~ $250 & from a brand like Parasound, I hardly think you could go wrong.
This would be a most effective & economic way to start digitizing your favorite vinyl.

Parasound Zphono·USB

[madmac]

Most folks here on the forum think vinyl sounds better than digital so why would we want to digitize that better sound??. Also, what is a 'rumble' filter for??. Looks like a nice unit!.

I'm going to need a phono pre-amp soon when I finally get a turntable. $250 bucks is a bit steep for me though.

[wkhanna]

....... why would we want to digitize that better sound??.

A few reasons, actually.....

1. The convenience of being able to hear that 'better' sound via your digital rig.

2. Preservation of your pristine vinyl.

.......Also, what is a 'rumble' filter for??. .

As per Wikipedia: "Rumble refers to a low frequency sound from the bearings inside a turntable. This is most noticeable in low quality turntables with ball bearings. Higher quality turntables use slide bearings, minimizing rumble.

Some phono pre-amplifiers implement a rumble filter, in an attempt to remove the noise."

[Hdale85]

By using lasers vs a stylus you would in theory prolong the life of your vinyl as the stylus on a traditional TT technically does cause wear and tear to your vinyl, especially if you get the setup wrong.

I believe Denon or someone had a digital TT a while back.

[wkhanna]

There have been a few over the years, none approaching the fidelity of a traditional audiophile system.
The Library of Congress uses one so as not to damage precious historically significant artifacts.
Especially useful for old wax based cylinders which are extremely delicate.

ELP Laser Table

[Chris D]

Bill, I think you'd really like that zPhono. I have a whole stack of Zcustom gear, that I'm just finishing off now with a Zcd and new Zdac. Can't wait to get it fully running, and I'll take a pic.

Feel free to come by Club Parasound and discuss it.

[PewterTA]

Bill.... that along with a few others I think we need to test!!!!!!!! Maybe get them and make a day of testing!?!? Hee hee.

[madmac]

A few reasons, actually.....

1. The convenience of being able to hear that 'better' sound via your digital rig.

2. Preservation of your pristine vinyl.




As per Wikipedia: "Rumble refers to a low frequency sound from the bearings inside a turntable. This is most noticeable in low quality turntables with ball bearings. Higher quality turntables use slide bearings, minimizing rumble.

Some phono pre-amplifiers implement a rumble filter, in an attempt to remove the noise."

Logically.........Once the vinyl is digitized, it's no longer better sound!!?? Also, I was wondering when I once had a turntable what all that rumbling was about!. I thought it was my stomach !! Hehehe!!.

[wkhanna]

The Zphono is on sale currently at Audio Advisor, hence my desire to share its capabilities.
It has more features than I can make use of however, since I have what I consider to be a decent phono-pre already.

[wkhanna]

Logically.........Once the vinyl is digitized, it's no longer better sound!!??

The true logic is that it is most often sonically better than its purely digital counterpart, if it is a work available on both formats.

Again, there are many reasons to digitize vinyl. Many works on vinyl, especially classical & pre-1970 recordings, are simply not available in digital format. Without a turn table, one would not be able to enjoy this mass amount of music.

Then there is the issue of the mastering. In many if not most instances, the quality of the mastering for the analog version of an album is considered more pleasing, if not superior, to the digital master. So when you capture the vinyl in a digitized format, it will sound better.

[Hdale85]

Just because it digital doesn't mean it'll sound worse, much of the reason vinyl sounds better is because it's mastered better than the digital versions. The vinyl is still analog, but you're playing it back through a laser digitizing it. As long as you have a decent DAC and what not it's possible to make it sound probably just as good.

[madmac]

Personally, the one and only thing that I miss with Digital is that whole process of opening the record, taking it out it's sleeve, placing it on the turntable, cleaning it, and letting the needle slowly descend onto the disc. Priceless!. I'm looking forward to doing that again.

[PewterTA]

Yeah, I agree that we need to dismiss the notion of either format sounding better or worse than the other. Truth is... they should sound exactly the same. They are both "capable" when properly done of producing the exact same quality. It's all about how you implement each to get the sound quality you want.

To me Bill is the perfect example because it started out with a nice Vinyl side and made it better. Then he got interested in digital audio and has always wanted the same quality from that as he gets from his vinyl side. Well through trial and error and upgrades... we've gotten about 98% of that sound...We'll know if we've hit 100% as soon as we can record some of his vinyl and play it back. If it sounds as good...well then I think we've accomplished it. Now it's entirely possible to make it better and continue forward on both sides...it's all about how much money you want to put into it.

[PewterTA]

Dan,

I agree with you... there's something more organic about using the vinyl and the whole process of it. I know for certain, that when I'm over Bill's we will listen to a whole side of an album much easier than just listening to a track on the digital side. I think the problem comes from the ease of accessing the digital side, so many choices so easily accessible. You don't tend to sit down and listen through as much.

Now having said that, I know Bill will as easily sit and play a whole disc on the Digital side by himself as he would on the vinyl side. SO maybe it's more the convenience of not having to get up and flip the LP or put another one that makes the Digital side something we do a little more when we get together. More time to talk and BS about everything!

[Chris D]

Bill, I just came across a review of the Zphono on Stereophile: http://www.stereophile.com/content/entry-level-15

[wkhanna]

Thanks, Chris!
I actually read the article when the hard copy of my subscription arrived a while back.
If I did not already have a V nice phono-pre, I would drop $250 on this puppy in a heartbeat.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it is on sale now at Audio Advisor.

[PewterTA]

One thing I saw on computeraudiophile is that the ZPhono is only 16/48KHz.... I can't find anything else to say one way or the other.

[wkhanna]

Ouch!
That is deal killer for me.
I can not find any reference to its resolution either.
link to manual

[Hdale85]

Hmm I wonder if it can be modified with a nicer DAC, I imagine the DAC it uses is limited to 16/48.

[madmac]

On another note, when I do pick up a decent used turntable, I am very strongly leaning towards getting a direct drive model. In a lot of cases (as was mine when I sold my belt drive model), belt drive models suffer from excessive 'wow and flutter' effects because the belts invariably stretch and fail. The belts are also hard to find replacements for. Direct drives tend to stay more stable speed wise right?.

[wkhanna]

On another note, when I do pick up a decent used turntable, I am very strongly leaning towards getting a direct drive model. In a lot of cases (as was mine when I sold my belt drive model), belt drive models suffer from excessive 'wow and flutter' effects because the belts invariably stretch and fail. The belts are also hard to find replacements for. Direct drives tend to stay more stable speed wise right?.

There are many ways to skin the proverbial cat. In most cases it comes down to execution & implementation. Which is another way of saying; “you get what you pay for.”

If you are planning on purchasing a used table in the under $150 range I suggest you concern yourself more with condition & less with drive mechanism details. Some good deals are to be found if one is patient & careful. Look for brands like Technics & Denon.

If buying new, there are some decent quality entry level tables on the market today that that easily match or exceed some of the better tables we had available in our younger days. Some of them even come with built-in USB analog-to-digital converters (ADC’s) that allow you easily begin converting your vinyl to digital files.

Music Hall USB-1

Pro-Ject Essential

For entry level ‘audiophile’ tables, the usual suspects are still at play.
Rega, Music Hall, Pro-Ject & the venerable Technics SL-1200 are good places to start your search.

At this level, no worries about belt vs direct drive. Both are satisfactory, belts are easy to find & relatively cheap & easy to replace. There many other factors such as cartridge & phono-pre choice that will have far greater influence on the overall sound.

As always, JMHO YMMV

[wkhanna]

Found this in the Parasound Zphono manual:

"Verify that the “Default Format” is set to “2 channel, 16 bit, 44100 Hz (CD Quality)”

and this:

"Ensure that Windows 7® is set to 2 channel,16 bit, 44100 Hz (CD Quality) – see above"

and this:

"Ensure that your recording software is set to record in WAV 44k/16 bit (CD Quality)"

Grand Pu Bha in the Cloud says; "No Hi-Res for You!"

Remember that we are looking at ADC's (analog to digital converters) not DAC's (digital to analog converters).

Here are two economical units I am looking at that provide Hi-Res recording capability as opposed to up-sampling from a lower resolutoin. Currently all rips up to this point have been via the ADC in my PC.

E-MU 0404

Tascam US144MKII/

[Hdale85]

Are you sure we're looking at ADC's instead of DAC's? The laser is digital afterall, it's not a needle (analog) being used? So I'm not sure......either way I imagine I could probably mod it with something nicer

[wkhanna]

Dougie,
We are talking about digitizing an analog signal generated from a traditional stylus & phono-pre, not using a laser.

[Hdale85]

Ok, I misunderstood what the product was, I thought it was another form of laser style turntable that doesn't use a stylus. So yes I guess it would be an ADC, but at that point might as well use your own TT as the quality of the TT, stylus, and stability of the platter along with your ADC device is going to dictate how good the capture is.

[wkhanna]

Yes, you got it.
That is exactly what we are doing.