Turntable

[BWLover]

I would like to get a TT. I am looking for a "budget" table. I have been hearing a lot about pro-ject and music hall. i would like to keep it under $1000 Canadian. What would you recommend?

[BWLover]

I'm thinking.......music hall MMF 5.1 vs. Pro-Ject 1 Xpression III

[wkhanna]

Look at the KAB Technics SL1200 & Rega P1 also.
You will need a phono pre, also, by the look at your equipment listed in your signature (Does the Rotel RC-1082 have a phono-pre section?).

I hate to sound like a 'broken record' (pun intended), but as I have said recently in respnse to a similar post......

".....the TT is only the tip of the iceberg. You'll want some record cleaning supplies too. You will also need a decent phono pre, and it is every bit as important a piece of equipment as the TT and cartridge.

The other question is how involved you are willing become with learning how to properly set up and maintain your system. If you want something that is basically ‘plug & play’ I would recommend you look at the Rega or the Technics.

Go here and read the FAQ section on vinyl"

[BWLover]

Yes my pre amp has a phono pre. both MM and MC. And yes i would like to be very involved in my TT.

The KAB Technics SL1200 is ugly, so not interested in that one. But rega....hmm. They seem interesting. I'd like to keep the prices around the same as the project 1 xpression III and the Music Hall, so im thinking the Rega P2 will be added to my list.

[exojam]

Maybe see about finding a used Rega.

I picked up a used Rega Planar 3, added a Ortofon 2M Blue, Origin Live Advanced drive upgrade, GrooverTracer Deluxe sub platter, Cambridge Audio 640P and I believe the TT rocks.

You may be able to get everything except the sub platter for under 1K if you can find a used TT (since you may not need the pre amp). You could also save some by looking at the Ortofon 2M Red.

James

[sunshdw]

The Project Xpression is a great table but the stock cartridge sucks. If you go the Project route check into the EVO III cartridge. We did that set up for a client of ours and it sounded VERY nice and smooth

[twitch54]

The KAB Technics SL1200 is ugly,.

WTF ???? LOL !!! :rofl: :rofl:

While looks are subjective lets face facts.......you're looking to put together a entry level analog playback system so in reality you really need to do more thinking with your ears rather than just your eyes !

FWIW, it's a acceptef fact within the audio community that the Technics (and modified variants thereof) is one of the best sub 1k tables out there.

IMO, the cheap Music hall, pro-ject and even any thing Rega (under the P-3) is inferior to the Technics.

[wkhanna]

IMO, the cheap Music hall, pro-ject and even any thing Rega (under the P-3) is inferior to the Technics.

I whole heartedly agree with your statement, and only offer advice that I have learned from my (personal) listening experience.

However, despite our well intentioned efforts, we can not seem to change the fact that listening with one's eyes is a practice still employed in the world.

[Hdale85]

I always thought that the Technics wouldn't be as good because they employ direct drive system where you can get a lot of motor vibrations through the platter and into the cart. I know they are very good for DJ use but the lower end MusicHalls are very very nice as well and have always been regarded as a very big bang per buck. I have not really listened to any of the Technics in a Hi-Fi setup though but I do have several friends that DJ and have them in their Pro setup.

[Johnloudb]

I haven't heard the Technics table but I'm sure they did a good job at addressing noise problems. Also, I think it has a servo for speed control and that should have benefits from a technical standpoint. That's another thing many audiophiles balk at, like they do feedback - justifiably or not.

Here's a quote from Technic's dealer KAB Electro Acoustics ( http://www.kabusa.com )

A Question of Time
We've all heard the condemnation about how direct drives fidget and hunt for speed. It remains the most popularly stated myth today. So I put a 'scope on the 1200's internal self validating frequency generator and had a look for myself.


But 'lo and behold this direct drive motor doesn't hunt or fidget at all, just a steady sine wave is displayed. Turns out the '1200 is one of the few designs that uses a linear detection scheme. That means that corrections are only made when necessary and without rotational delays. [To be fair, there are some direct drive designs that make corrections only once per revolution. Thus lending some credibility to the "fidget" criticism. But then, those players do not achieve wow and flutter numbers of 0.01% ! They are usually 0.2%].


So when the '1200 needs to make a correction it is made gradually and in harmony with the flywheel effect of the 5 lb damped platter. In other words, the speed stays stable regardless of dynamic and static stylus drag. No more choking off of dynamics nor is there the wavering instability that follows loud crescendos. With an SP-02 on the cutting end and a '1200 on the playback end, the time domain "chain of custody" between master and playback is preserved.

With the '1200, the time domain "chain of custody" between master and playback is preserved.

Myth #2: Direct drives are criticized for noise, but in fact are very quiet. some 20dB quieter than many belt drives. This is because the motor delivers its power to the most rigid part of the platter- the spindle, rotates at actual speed, applies power evenly without the side drag of a belt, and unlike most other drive systems, the power factor is infinitely variable.
The 1200 motor starts up fast drawing 200mA of current but quickly glides down to an operating current of just 10mA. With a rumble figure of -80dB, Speed accuracy of 0.005% and Wow & Flutter of 0.01%, it should be clear to all concerned that this is an industry standard; Something to be admired, not ignored.

[btf1980]

Now, this is no condemnation towards Technics turntables, but what good is asking a Technics dealer his opinion on them? What do you expect him to say, it's absolute crap? Asking him his opinion on it is like asking my mom if she thinks I'm handsome.

[Hdale85]

Well I still am of the belief that the Technics is a great DJ table, but I still think there are better options for a Hi-Fi setup. I agree that it would look out of place on most Hi-Fi racks as well. Not that looks are anything but I think you can get the same performance for the same money and get something that looks relatively good. The MMF-5.1 is a very nice TT and is about the same cost as the 1200 series. This is no stab at Technics as they really are nice tables, but in all honesty they really were designed for the club scene with mixing and scratching in mind.

[Johnloudb]

Now, this is no condemnation towards Technics turntables, but what good is asking a Technics dealer his opinion on them? What do you expect him to say, it's absolute crap? Asking him his opinion on it is like asking my mom if she thinks I'm handsome.

I guess it depends on how cynical you are. I've done business with him and he once recommended I Not buy a cartridge he carried because he didn't think it was what I was looking for. He seems like a very nice guy. Sometimes you gotta know the Sh*t from the Shinola. Would you trust an audio equipment review that puts big advertisements in the magazine?

Bill heard it and recommended it as a good start up player. I was just offering that as technical information the player, not a recommendation. I've never heard it.

[Alaric]

In defense of some DD tables

I used to have a Yamaha PX2 linear tracking turntable. That TT is almost mythical today (I bought mine in 1983). It was DD and a phenomenal performer. It also had a Klipsch (!) ruby cantilever cartridge. While I'm not a fan of the Technics tables , they are decent for a modded DJ unit. I don't know about the "best under $1000" description (ProJect RM-5SE anyone?) , but if you're willing to spend $700 to try vinyl you could certainly do worse , and being a professional unit , they're tough as nails and last forever-just like the resale value.
Having admitted that , I got a Music Hall mmf-5SE and Bellari VP129 for $800 , both new-in-box. Some Kingcats finished it off. :B

[Alaric]

Then again , if you decide you like vinyl , you can try this

http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Statement-Turntable?sc=2&category=347

[Hdale85]

Hmmm I'd love to build a replica of one of those I could never justify spending more then the cost of a used Ferrari on a TT.

[Alaric]

Yeah , the cost is definitely a hindrance for me! That and finding 3 sq. ft. of floor space that will hold 770 lbs.