Buying CD player, looking for feedback...

[Guest]

My Denon DVD 2200 has been pulling double duty for nearly 3 years now and I need to buy a dedicated single disc CD player so I'm looking for suggestions. While I feel the Denon is a great DVD player with excellent image and sound quality, CD playback has always seemed blah and absolutely lifeless no matter what equipment I'm hooked up to, also its become very finiky about what discs it will and will not play. I'm considering new as well as used equipment in the sub $250 out-the-door range. I have seen glowing reviews for some of the NAD's, Sherwoods and Marantz's's's but I'm getting tired of googling and sifting through threads and am just looking for some realworld feedback, thanks in advance guys.Oh I'm a sucker for Proton's clunky industrial design but is their audio equipment any good?

[gd]

sub $250

Uh-oh.

I'd be surprised if you could top the 2200's redbook performance for that money, unless...

You got lucky with a used player... the makes you mention are good, add Rotel and Cambridge Audio to your list... but again, you'd have to get lucky.

Or...

You might consider an outboard DAC to add to the 2200 for redbook... again, I think you need open up your budget a tad, but look on Audiogon for used units... Ack! Dac is in that $$$ neighborhood... older Alchemy Audio DACs are there also, but their age makes it tough to guess if they could top the more modern 2200 – they were great in the day.

Double your budget, and then expect to obtain a discernible difference.

Happy hunting.

[Russ L]

in the sub $250 out-the-door range

Sorry for the bad news but...anything less than $1000 US for a dedicated CD player is a waste of money IMO. Most important component in a setup. Good buys are the Benchmark DAC 1 for $1000, Arcam FMJ @ $2500 approx, the Creek Destiny player @ $2200, and the best buy of all, the Cambridge Audio 840C @ $1500 US. Regards, Russ

[PatG]

As much as I'd like to dedicate more $ to the cause I cannot, I'm po. I have seen a few used, Burr Brown equiped NADs for under $200 though. I read a few articles about using stand alone DAC's with lower level players (especialy those utilizing the Phillips transport) but I have way too many projects, and bits of crap in that pile I call an "entertainment system", I would love to simplify. I have this big Dolby 7.1,H/T Onkyo with a billion features that I pretty much use strictly for 2 channel stereo, heats up the place pretty good though. I know I have a beer budget but I would still like the best beer I can afford.

[gd]

I hear ya.

When I'm in that position (often), I just say 'no'... and buy discs instead.

A couple more suggestions, however...

Free: if you haven't done so already, change connections and compare using the 2200's DACs (analog connection) and the Onkyo's DACs (digital connection).

Sub-$250: if the Onkyo seems to yield better sound, treat yourself to a new digital cable... I normally wouldn't recommend cables at all, but forum sponsor CatCables makes one – Silvercat Digital – that in my experience (and many others on this forum) makes a discernible difference in detail in my system... I recommend it at every opportunity... http://www.catcables.com/

Lotsa people are enthusiastic about the $200-ish Oppo universal players... but like any universal, it's difficult to find an honest assessment about the redbook performance specifically... I'm skeptical, but I haven't tried it... http://www.oppodigital.com/

If you're at all critical about your music listening, I really recommend resisting that kind of expenditure for another player when the odds are extremely high that no improvement will be heard.

[PatG]

I really did not think the Onkyo's onboard DAC's would be any better than the Denon.....whoa. I hooked up the coaxial digital inputs/outputs and played a few CDs and so far the difference has been considerable. There has been speculation that the 24 bit DACs Onkyo has favored for a few years now were built by Wolfson who also supplies DACs for Onkyo's current range of high end CD players. Anyways the results have been much improved high end, with greater detail but without the "grain" that was once there. I honestly did not expect to hear an improvement but I am amazed by the difference, thanks for the suggestion gd. I guess I'll just hang onto the Denon until it croaks.

[gd]

:T

Gotta love a cheap / free upgrade.

Enjoy.

[twitch54]

Sorry for the bad news but...anything less than $1000 US for a dedicated CD player is a waste of money IMO. Russ

Russ, Good day, just for the record the Rotel and Rega players come in at less than a thousand, US dolllars, and those in the "know" do not consider either one a waste of money.

For thr money this fella is considering he should buy a Oppo and when $$ permit run it through a good outboard DAC, like a Benchmark.

[dtb300]

As much as I'd like to dedicate more $ to the cause I cannot, I'm po.

I would then keep your Denon, and looked for a good deal on a used outboard DAC like a Channel Islands, Benchmark, (fill in a name here). Good used DAC's are few and far between but they pop up now and then, and they will improve your sound of Redbook.

I use to own a 2200 and ran a CI DAC (VDA-1) with it for a significant improvement in playback.

Dan

[Ovation]

If he has an Onkyo 700 or higher series receiver, then he has some very good Wolfson DACs and, it appears, he's already discovered that the receiver (no matter what DACs are in it) is better than his player to his ears. And it was a free upgrade. Can't argue with that. :T

[PatG]

Well I have an SR602 from a little over 2 years ago, better than the old Onkyo that it replaced but never wowed me with sound quality until now. I still can't find any info on the DAC's, seems others have also inquired but found nothing. Just to satisfy my Curiosity I will pop the cover and see whats inside. I still have problems loading audio CDs when the Denon warms up, no problems with DVDs though so I still may have to find a CD player in the near future. I appreciate the feedback so far, thanks guys.

[howburger]

I have a Rotel RSP1068 processor and a Rotel RMB 1095 AMP, using my old Yamaha CDC665 CD player and recently got an Oppo DV970HD universal player. I got the Oppo mostly because it seemed to eek out as much video detail as possible from my Infocus 480P projector, especially for $150.00. What I also found out was it sounds pretty darn good on CD's, especially when compared to the Yamaha. When using the Oppo DAC's and running the 1068 in the analog by-pass mode, I get more detail, a smoother texture and better imaging than when using the 1068 digital path. I don't have a lot of experience with high end players, but for now I am very happy with it. Stereophile, even with their allegiance to high-end advertisers, had what was to me, glowing things to say about the 970, considering the price point, especially when running digital to an outboard high-end DAC.

http://stereophile.com/cdplayers/507oppo/

Harold

[Russ L]

Russ, Good day, just for the record the Rotel and Rega players come in at less than a thousand, US dolllars, and those in the "know" do not consider either one a waste of money.

For thr money this fella is considering he should buy a Oppo and when $$ permit run it through a good outboard DAC, like a Benchmark.

I wasn't impressed with the Rega Apollo or Planet when I auditioned them. The Rotel players as well. I still stand by my statement that a minimum of $2000 is needed to get a good sounding CD player, IMO. The Cambridge Audio 840C is the cheapest at $1800 CAN + tax. There are plenty of people "in the know" who agree with me. :P The Benchmark has a great sound but its a DAC. The thread was about recommendations for a Dedicated CD Player. Regards, Russ

[PatG]

I was doing a little reading and discovered the Denon has onboard Burr Brown DACs (not sure of the model). I have since given the Onkyo the boot in favor of running the Dennon's analog outputs to a Trends TA-10.1, T-amp. The T-amp simply sounds significantly better than the Onkyo, much smoother with greater resolution. I'm now looking into dedicated DACs to use with a ho-hum player.Anybody have any experience with the Trends DA 2.5 DAC being sold by audiomagus?

[JonMarsh]

I wasn't impressed with the Rega Apollo or Planet when I auditioned them. The Rotel players as well. I still stand by my statement that a minimum of $2000 is needed to get a good sounding CD player, IMO. The Cambridge Audio 840C is the cheapest at $1800 CAN + tax. There are plenty of people "in the know" who agree with me. :P The Benchmark has a great sound but its a DAC. The thread was about recommendations for a Dedicated CD Player. Regards, Russ

I'm inclined to back up Russ on this one, including the suggestion for CD playback just under the $2K point. Unfortunately that's a lot more money than PatG indicated he was interested in parting with. The unfortunate thing is that there are a lot of ways you can move laterally in the sub $1K player market, and there are certainly different "sounds" produced as a result, but most with some drawbacks. I would even question the 840C unless you're absolutely convinced you'll never look at anything digital beyond Redbook, otherwise coughing up the extra bucks for something like an SA-11 Marantz will give a lot of pleasure considering the quality of SACD playback it offers on top of very good (and tunable) CD playback (variable digital filter settings). Though I rate the Ayre C-5xe higher in absolute sonics, they're in somewhat different price categories. (isn't that always the case?)

In the $250 range, I'd say hope for a lucky price on an above average used piece of gear. But don't expect miracles in that price range. I haven't been wowed by the Marantz or Denon gear I've heard under $1K. As an extensive owner of both brands, I think I have earned the right to make statements like that.

[peterS]

havent the hd dvd players gotten good reviews for cd playback
also the playstation one was a cult following as a cheap but good cd player

my cambridge azure 540 was in the $200 range
the newer version is more but better id imagine

[whoaru99]

Perhaps you can find a Music Hall CD-25 in your price range.

Personally, I thought the Benchmark DAC sounded very similar to a couple of Denon players my brother and I tried with it/against it.

Although probably less technically accurate, I preferred the sound of the Music Hall over the Benchmark. I thought it was more pleasing throught the mids (warmer, if you will) and had a wider and deeper soundstage.