Sub Hunting

[wkhanna]

I wasn’t quit sure where to post this question, but Mister Frugal (me) is now looking for my first ever Sub as my upgrade project of a 2-channel separates to 5.1 HT expansion via used equipment is off and running with my recent acquisition of an RSP-1066 at Audiogon.

The laws of physics as I know them tell me that a large Sub is going to have higher mass and be required to move a higher quantity of air, therefor the response may not be quite as efficient. And a smaller dia. Sub can be very efficient if ported properly, but may suffer in very low frequency reproduction.

I will assume a powered sub would be the most economical, but isn’t the amp class different in most powered subs as compared to the AB and C that most of us use to power our full range speakers? And would a bridged multi-channel perform as well as a mono-block, or will bridging introduce inherent degradation to the SQ if used for an unpowered unit?

Is there a happy medium, and what would you guys recommend?

Remember, I plan on buying used and my budget is <$300.

TIA

[ThomasW]

Let's start off by clarifying something, efficiency has nothing to do with the size of the driver. A 15" driver can have the same efficiency as a 8" one....

For a subwoofer the topology of the amp (it's class) is fundamentally irrevelent to the sound quality.

If you're buying used you need to locate units in your price range, then we can make recommendations based on what you find...

And unfortunately once you factor in shipping, $300 isn't going to get you much of a sub.....

If you can built your own tube or box enclosure, I can probably help you out with a deal on a lightly used Shiva for cheap...

[wkhanna]

I see Klipsch sell factory refurbs on evilBay. Opinions on their product?

Years ago I looked into making a Sub using paper concrete molds in what I think is referred to as a dipolar config? Or was that what the Dr. said was making my wife irritable?

But yes, I can 'Make' stuff. No problem for me to assemble a x-over, or a cabinet or tube. I actually like the idea of a tube, it can be dressed to look like decor accessory or hidden behind couches. Is it possible to make high quality sub for less than $300 less amplification?

[gd]

Klipsch are not known for their subs... avoid.

Don't want to discourage anyone from DIY, as this is a tinkering hobby, but most of the serious kits I've seen exceed $300... if it was me, I'd up the budget to $500 and get a foolproof sub from one of the online mfr's SVS or Hsu... very serious subs that way outperform their price points.

http://www.svsound.com/index.cfm

http://www.hsuresearch.com/

If the budget is non-negotiable, I'd say get a cheapie at PartsExpress to tide you over... http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-635 ... those little Daytons are well regarded for the price... or be willing to put in time scrounging for economical parts and/or building cabinets from scratch... visit the Mission Possible DIY area of the forum too.

Otherwise, what ThomasW said... the other very important thing to factor in is your room... dimensions, surfaces, angles... assemble a good description and/or illustration as you make your round of inquiries... subs are rather room-dependent.

Don't skimp on the speakers... even the sub.

[wkhanna]

Well, I was only going to spend $400 on a pre/pro, but waited a few extra months and saved up for the 1066. I'll take your advise gd and do the same with the sub purchase. I only want to buy one, and I want to be able to live happily with it for a few years at the very least least.

[ThomasW]

Is it possible to make high quality sub for less than $300 less amplification?

Well one can certainly make a pretty good sub for ~$300. As gd indicated drop by our DIY forum and look around..

[wkhanna]

If you can built your own tube or box enclosure, I can probably help you out with a deal on a lightly used Shiva for cheap...

On my way over now, and for staters, what is a Shiva? no result found on google.

[ThomasW]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-07,GGLD:en&q=Shiva+subwoofer&spell=1

[wkhanna]

thank you!

[PewterTA]

What kind of sub are you looking for, a musical one or one for HT mainly??

I know you are moving from 2 to 5.1, so I'm guessing you'll use this mainly as a HT sub...

The $429 SVsubwoofer, I have yet to hear a sub under the sub $700 range that comes close to this sub. It's definitely worth a look.

The HSUs are definitely right up there as well...so don't count them out and they are a little more musical I think.

But for the price I think those two are about your best shot. Especially when you can demo them in your home virtually risk free.

[wkhanna]

Hi PewterTA!
Yes, going to 5.1, but musical SQ is paramount. HSU and SVS entry level is a viable solution, but I need to feed the coffer for a while to make the plunge. But like you and others say, they seem like a great value and a purchase I would not regret on down the line.
Thanks

[wkhanna]

... the other very important thing to factor in is your room... dimensions, surfaces, angles... assemble a good description and/or illustration as you make your round of inquiries... subs are rather room-dependent.

Don't skimp on the speakers... even the sub.

Room is 14' x 18', 10' ceiling, stucco plaster wall, hardwood floor. Probably an acoustical nightmare to you guys, but somewhat damped by rug and furniture.














I am looking for the best musical performance (70% jazz), and will accept whatever HT/movie sound the sub provides.

TIA

[PewterTA]

It's a shame you weren't going for something a little bigger, I have a nice lightly used PC+ 20-39 that you might have been able to have...

[gd]

Going by the view only, it looks like your room is not a difficult one... plan on dedicating one corner of the room to what will likely be a 19-25" cube (or a 16" diameter if you go with an SVS cylinder), as that's what seems to work best in most cases... a big cube with a nice finish can double as an end table.

Again, keep those photos handy when you discuss with others.

If music is a huge priority and movies get little consideration, you might check the REL line, reputed to be a little more articulate for music, if a little light in power for movies (no experiience with them, myself)... of course that comes at a higher price... but it doesn't cost anything to look:

http://www.rel.net/index2.htm

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/index.htm (distributor)

[wkhanna]

It's a shame you weren't going for something a little bigger, I have a nice lightly used PC+ 20-39 that you might have been able to have...

Hey Pewter, give a PM re your PC+, you never know, and the wife will be out of town for a week this month. Hey I can tell her I got myself a b- day present, right?!?!

[Alaric]

Hey , wK

Beautiful home! Looks very Mission Viejo for your locale :sn

[wkhanna]

Beautiful home! Looks very Mission Viejo for your locale :sn

Why thank you Alaric!!!! It was not my intent to have our (I must include wife’s influence) interior decorating abilities critiqued, but thanks! We moved in together 6+ years ago, and had to combine two rather different collections of ‘stuff’, so it is a bit eclectic and never been described as boring.

The house is over 100 years old; hence the high ceilings and plaster work. Not exactly typical of the PGH area, but typical of the time from the outside with dark red brick and slate roof.

[gd]

Hey Pewter, give a PM re your PC+, you never know, and the wife will be out of town for a week this month. Hey I can tell her I got myself a b- day present, right?!?!

Yeah, do that... :twisted:

[Alaric]

The rounded arch doorway combined with the modern art are a great combination. Looks very sophisticated-retro modern. Sorry I have nothing to help you with a sub! My HT is HTIB ! Budget allows expenditures in 2 ch. only! :cry:

[Alaric]

P.S. GO STEELERS!!! Also , as a professional in the mechanical end of the bike industry , I may look you up in the "Speed" section......is that a Goose for your avatar?

[wkhanna]

......is that a Goose for your avatar?

Correct! Advance to GO, Collect one 1092!!!!

My, what discerning eyes you have!

It’s one of my favorites of a few early model Euro bikes I have. A 1970 Moto Guzzi Ambassador, ChiPs edition (California Highway Patrol for those of you not old enough to know who Frank Poncherello aka Erik Estrada is) that truly was discovered in a barn North of Pittsburgh PA about 4 years ago. Its not restored at all cosmetically, has a few dents a dings, its original paint, (I like to call it patina; a sort of early period Old McDonald Barn) and is a true joy to ride.

[Alaric]

Lotta years looking at bikes...

Figured it had to be a Guzzi or a vintage Beemer after a wicked tip-over! Nice thing about Guzzis' is the interchangeability of parts. Most internal engine parts can be swapped from the 1950s to I think somewhere in the 1980s (?)
Oops. Audio Hideout! Got a little off topic there. How's this-I love the sound of a well-tuned twin! (Goose at full honk?)

[Kingdaddy]

Some used subs (DIY and commercial) can be found right here at the Pawn Shop area, I know I posted my DIY Sonosub here a while back but it would probably be out of your price range and the shipping would be quite expensive as well.