Potential sub build

[Letifo]

So i have been reading around for a couple days and after vieiwng this thread: http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=30969
you guys all seem very nice, and willing to help answer some question for me of which i have quite a few.

Okay, so i'm about to graduate college in a week, and i'm hoping to buy an onkyo SR606 (any reason i shouldn't?) and i have a ps3 and a 50" panasonic plasma. that said, i need to get some speakers going, highly considering a pair of these: http://av123.com/component/page,shop...k,1/Itemid,37/ to start off with, but i want to build a sub to go with them. I live in an apartment right now, so while i want bass that vibrates when those planes on top gun fly by, i don't necessarily need to win any volume awards. That said, i'd also rather waste as little money as possible in terms of upgrading later and not having to get rid of stuff, but i think that's right in line with the idea of DIY. I have been recommended the tempest x-18, although i think that might be a bit of overkill. Right now i'm highly considering the tempest x-15 http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=652 for $188, could i build a box, get that and amp it for ~$400?

oh, btw i will listen to very little music probably, this is primarily for HT use.

Also, was considering building a box and getting a cheaper 15" dayton driver from PE (either that $100 one, or what's up with that $30 one?) for the time being, and when i get in a spot where i can open up the volume a bit more, perhaps invest in a more expensive driver then and i'll already have the enclosure, which should make the swap easy right?

budget, i'd like to shoot for $300, but i could probably swing $400 if i needed to, it will depend somewhat on my graduation gift money.

also, what kind of tools should i expect to use? I have some basic tools, jigsaw, circular saw, drill, but not a table saw or anything like that around. i could certainly buy clamps. However, if i need lots more tools my grandparent's basement is only 200 miles away and basically has a workshop in the basement so i could meet my uncle there and work on it during the weekend, bonus of taht is that he also has an electrical engineering degree so that will help with the wiring.

i think that's a good start on questions.

cliff notes: i want to build a sub for $300-$400, but also i live in an apartment so volume is not the most important thing, also in that budget i need a dedicated amp for the sub, hoping for something in the 250-500W amp so that i can keep it for awhile. looking for advice.

[Letifo]

oh, also since this is important, the floor plan for my apartment is on teh bottom:

http://www.colonyclubohio.com/floorplans.cfm?Page=Floorplans

so the room is 12x18 sort of, basically it's like 12x12 for the viewing area, there's just no wall there it opens back out.

[Hdale85]

I don't think you could really do that for 400. Your going to want a pretty hefty amp. The EP1500 would probably work but its only 50 bucks less then the EP2500. So at the very least your looking at 488 + wood and spikes wire cabinet dampening and what not.

[yousuredo2]

you can source out a ep1500 FOR $200...
I would go with something small for an apartment...
The Shiva might be a good price/size candidate

allot of people with little to moderate skills, use tools a simple as Circular saw, jig saw, drill, & glue...
But a router really does help

[Hdale85]

Hah I'll be putting 2 15's or 18's in my apartment :B

[Letifo]

you can source out a ep1500 FOR $200...
I would go with something small for an apartment...
The Shiva might be a good price/size candidate

allot of people with little to moderate skills, use tools a simple as Circular saw, jig saw, drill, & glue...
But a router really does help

shiva? yeah, while the appeal of an incredible sub with teh tempest is certainly there, in an apartment i feel like it might be overkill and i think i could certainly get by with something else cheaper for a bit, but of course i still want to feel/hear those explosions, or those planes flying by, etc. definitely would love to have it at $300 not $500 though.

got a couple questions, could i power that driver with a lesser amp, and just not be able to play it that loud? or is the fact that it is such a big driver that moves so much air and has so much excursion, a reason that you basically have to have a powerful amp power it. i guess the question is this, if i was in the middle and could only afford one better piece, the amp or the driver, should i get the expensive amp with a cheaper driver, so i could swap out drivers later? or the opposite?

also, :rofl: @ you saying you're going to put 2x15 or 2x18 in your apartment, that'd be awesome. i don't think i have the bankroll to right now, plus we're supposed to be pretty tight on our noise policy here (although the ladies below me disagree).

you can source out a ep1500 FOR $200...
I would go with something small for an apartment...
The Shiva might be a good price/size candidate

allot of people with little to moderate skills, use tools a simple as Circular saw, jig saw, drill, & glue...
But a router really does help

i have a few people willing to help and all of us are decently skilled, not a ton of experience but we've done a couple things. also we're all fairly smart (i've got a math degree, so i can do all the angles and calculations etc.) plus we're looking forward to the excitement of building it, so that could be good. but certainly if a router is preferred, i would have no problem going to my grandparents' house and doing it in the workshop there.

[Hdale85]

Well you see one night the neighbors upstairs (the building only has 3 units) threw a party and had a PA system up there blaring until about 3am. So I no longer care about the noise. Noone really cares as long as its not like midnight.

[ThomasW]

If the budget is tight...

Get the amp PE has on special P/N 300-805, and a Tempest -X

[Hdale85]

What was that Nady amp that was relatively cheap? Could work as well.

[Letifo]

Well you see one night the neighbors upstairs (the building only has 3 units) threw a party and had a PA system up there blaring until about 3am. So I no longer care about the noise. Noone really cares as long as its not like midnight.

yeah at the apartment i lived in last year it would have been fine, really close to the largest college campus (ohio state) in the country, but i'm a mile or so off campus and some of these people have like ... real jobs i guess. i mean in the case of a movie i'm still not super worried cuz the sub won't be thumping constantly like it would to some rap music or techno or something, but you know what i mean.

oh also, i showed the floor plan in my first post but i guess CF of the area is a big thing around here, the ceiling appears to be 8' and basically the listening area is roughly 12x12 so the cubic footage is i guess 12x12x8 = 144x8 = 1152 cubic feet? but i guess i'm not entirely sure how that works, because the room extends beyond that to roughly 18' total so if i need to count that it make sit 18x12x8 = 216x8 = 1728 cubic feet.

i'm thinking a sealed box, fairly flexible on size from 1x1x1 to 2x2x2 or somewhere in between, figuring on sitting it in the far left corner from the seating position, to the left of the tv. considering raising it to potentially dampen some vibration but that's going to be a separate issue i'll have to deal with and i'm not supremely worried about that at the moment.

again, thanks for the help everyone .

[Letifo]

If the budget is tight...

Get the amp PE has on special P/N 300-805, and a Tempest -X

so if you could only afford one good part and one cheaper part you'd get the expensive driver and the cheaper amp?

that amp looks great, i could buy that in a week, but not today, will it still be on special? .


also, i can drive to parts express, it's in dayton right?

[Hdale85]

Yeah Dayton Ohio.

[Letifo]

Yeah Dayton Ohio.

yeah i just updated my profile, i'm in ohio . sweet, that might even help me with some shipping costs.

[Letifo]

oh, hey another quick question that i realize is somewhat out of the realm of this particular section of the forum, but anyway.

so i want the onkyo 606 because it's regarded as a good receiver, particularly for the price, but in particular i'm excited that at that price point it decodes dts-hd ma and truehd audio codecs, but am i making too big of a deal out of this since i have a ps3 which can decode and output over bitstream?

[Letifo]

Yeah Dayton Ohio.

(oops, triple post)

pittsburgh eh? i go there somewhat often, my grandparents' house i was talking about doing the work in is in lower burrell, right near new kensington about 15 minutes from pittsburgh.

you eat much primanti brothers?

[Hdale85]

Umm Primanti Brothers is ok. There are only a couple Philly steak and cheese places around here I like. One is Charleys Steakery and thats probably the only one I really go to. The others I've tried have disappointed me. My favorite thing is a Gyro place down town though they have awesome gyro's.

As for the 606, It's pretty good I believe umm weather or not its needed? I bought a used Sony STR-DA3300ES for like 300 bucks and it can accept L-PCM over HDMI and the PS3 of course decodes those formats and outputs them as L-PCM. Bit stream is where it lets the receiver decode it. So its really up to you. Eventually I'll be upgrading to a pre/pro and it decodes the formats but I don't really need it to.

Oh and watch the cursing.

[ThomasW]

That amp is in their current flyer (prices through 9/18/08 ), as is the 300 watt BASH amp for $125

http://www.partsexpress.com/flyer.cfm

Yes given the budget I'd go with the better driver and low buck amp.

[Letifo]

Umm Primanti Brothers is ok. There are only a couple Philly steak and cheese places around here I like. One is Charleys Steakery and thats probably the only one I really go to. The others I've tried have disappointed me. My favorite thing is a Gyro place down town though they have awesome gyro's.

As for the 606, It's pretty good I believe umm weather or not its needed? I bought a used Sony STR-DA3300ES for like 300 bucks and it can accept L-PCM over HDMI and the PS3 of course decodes those formats and outputs them as L-PCM. Bit stream is where it lets the receiver decode it. So its really up to you. Eventually I'll be upgrading to a pre/pro and it decodes the formats but I don't really need it to.

Oh and watch the cursing.

oh, sorry about cursing thanks, i just edited that post.

yeah i meant PCM (i'm like 8 beers deep) not bitstream, you're right. I'm not that familiar with that sony, but the 606 can be had for around $370 at this point it seems, which should be a good deal. i certainly agree separates (pre/pro) is superior, but that's not in the budget for the foreseeable future. i guess i am also curious if the ps3 does as well decoding as the receiver does.

That amp is in their current flyer (prices through 9/18/08 ), as is the 300 watt BASH amp for $125

http://www.partsexpress.com/flyer.cfm

Yes given the budget I'd go with the better driver and low buck amp.

oh, sweet that is plenty of time then. 300W is nice as well.

so you think better driver and cheaper amp, anyone else have an opinion?

not to extend the scope of this thread too far, but this bose beater http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=24504 system in this thread seems somewhat intriguing since i can get surround for fairly cheap to go with my sub, but i think i'd rather the somewhat better bookshelf speakers i linked above (i have a couple older speakers right now i'd move to the back for surrounds, giving me a 4.1 for the interim) so that's something i'll have to decide.

again, thanks for the help and fast responses . this place is great so far.

i wouldn't mind building my own speakers, but i'd like to start with a sub since it should be much simpler to start off, and i heard those particular bookshelves are very comparable to what you could build for the same price, with basically no hassle. that might be blasphemy on this forum though .

[Hdale85]

Haha no one else's opinion matters :B But really Thomas knows what he's talking about and I agree if I had to go cheap on something I'd rather upgrade the amp later then the driver.

[Letifo]

Haha no one else's opinion matters :B But really Thomas knows what he's talking about and I agree if I had to go cheap on something I'd rather upgrade the amp later then the driver.

no one else besides who?

yeah one thing i noticed through reading here and some of the archives over the last 2 days is thomas knows what he's talking about .

[Hdale85]

No on else besides Thomas. I was semi joking because of course everyones opinion counts but Thomas knows what he's talking about quite well so it was sort of not a joke. But yeah his proposition sounds like a good one and in your smaller room should be good.

[Letifo]

No on else besides Thomas. I was semi joking because of course everyones opinion counts but Thomas knows what he's talking about quite well so it was sort of not a joke. But yeah his proposition sounds like a good one and in your smaller room should be good.

yeah, i figured in my small room power would not be much of a premium, my only concern was that the driver seems large and its excursion (i think i'm using proper terminology) that perhaps it needed quite a bit of power just to like ... get going at all, if that makes any sense.

[Hdale85]

Not at all, as long as you have some decent power you'll be fine.

[ThomasW]

What was that Nady amp that was relatively cheap? Could work as well.

$179 shipping included. Noisey fans though..

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-XA900-Pro-Stereo-Power-Amp?sku=482052&src=3SOSWXXA

Brandon's Bose Beaters are a nice little speaker, he has some newer designs that you might consider as well.

I was very impressed with these when he brought them over for an audition. At $80ea excluding enclosure they'd be hard to beat. http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.ph...1&postcount=44
And the MTM version for ~$30ea more is possibly the best speaker available for the money...http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.ph...8&postcount=80

[yousuredo2]

I just bought the Ep2500, and did the fan mod.
the original fan sounded like my 6 year old PC's power supply(loud).

I was told the Nady fan are even louder...
I don't know what the ep1500 fan sounds like.
But if you plan on being in the Apartment for a while,
the plate amp is probably all you need...
You can always upgrade later, as needed.

If you willing to spend about $50 more you can get three times the amp,
that you will not out grow as soon.

the Ep1500 is about $240 shipped with 2 XLR cables & rack screws

[Letifo]

$179 shipping included. Noisey fans though..

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-XA900-Pro-Stereo-Power-Amp?sku=482052&src=3SOSWXXA

Brandon's Bose Beaters are a nice little speaker, he has some newer designs that you might consider as well.

I was very impressed with these when he brought them over for an audition. At $80ea excluding enclosure they'd be hard to beat. http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.ph...1&postcount=44
And the MTM version for ~$30ea more is possibly the best speaker available for the money...http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.ph...8&postcount=80

those look pretty nice, and at $80/ea that's certainly an attractive price, but the enclosure looks somewhat hard to build. while i think taking the step into doing a crossover seems like a bit of a step, it definitely seems like something i could figure out if i put some time into it, but i'm a bit nervous about the rounded back of taht enclosure, how important is that? also, what's the reasoning for the tweeter being slightly off-center?

another dumb question, i haven't seen this anywhere, but what do MT and MTM mean?

i suppose for $30 more i would be up for building a pair of the MTMs to start, which frees up the money i was going to spend on those av123 speakers, whcih is still tempting, which allows me more money towards the sub that i want.

hmm

[Hdale85]

You don't build those enclosures, they come from partsexpress.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=302-721

[Letifo]

You don't build those enclosures, they come from partsexpress.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=302-721

oh, thanks i missed that aspect of it i guess.

$100/ea. though that's more than the drivers :E. hmm. that makes them less attractive to me certainly.

again, thanks to you and others for their help so far .


another thing, this audio codec thing becomes more confusing by the day. so the ps3 will output trueHD via LPCM, but won't decode dts-hd ma, and wont' output either one via bitstream? while this can certainly be updated via firmware later, it's making me think that i don't really need that feature in a receiver at all, confusing me even more, but again that's not really the point of this thread, i should probably start a new thread about that.

[Hdale85]

No it will decode TrueHD and DTS-HD MA and output them as LPCM it will also bitstream both.

[Letifo]

this thread http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/08...or-ps3-owners/ although it includes some misinformation, i read most of the comments and that's what i got.

so, i'm good with the more expensive driver and the cheaper amp, but is there any particular reason for that way and not the other way around? i mean like a somewhat technical reason?

what kind of enclosure should i build? 2x2x2? 1.5x1.5x1.5? anyone got a diagram of one? or a link to a thread about building one?

[Hdale85]

Thats very old. They released updates for DTS-HD MA and TrueHD some time ago.

[Letifo]

Thats very old. They released updates for DTS-HD MA and TrueHD some time ago.

k, cool.

so, box size? design? an old thread about it? that other thread seems to have kind of died.

[Hdale85]

Have to model the driver in Unibox or WinISD (I prefer Unibox) figure out the optimal space required and you can also mess with port tunings and what not.

[Letifo]

Have to model the driver in Unibox or WinISD (I prefer Unibox) figure out the optimal space required and you can also mess with port tunings and what not.

well i was hoping for a sealed sub i think, should i go ported?

i'll see if i can find unibox somewhere to DL and try to go from there, thanks. was kinda hoping someone had already done that to save me some legwork though .

[ThomasW]

Look at the seal and ported applications posted on the Tempest-X webpage. One of those designs should work fine for you...

[Hdale85]

Yeah forgot he had suggested configurations already posted.