What are some really nice veneers and finishes to use for speakers?

[JonW]

Thanks for the thoughts, Tom.

I agree that it would be nice to avoid a “plasticy” look. That may be why I’m willing to put a little more effort into the finish here if it will make a difference. And like you say, it should make a difference for the extra effort. Heck, I’m taking so much time building these speakers, I might as well go all the way with the finish. And I’m still acouplamonths away from that stage.

Yup, that Kharma clone is super looking. At the moment, however, I’m more into wood, rather than piano black.

I got my veneer for the speakers I’m building. It’s just regular, flat cut maple. But to my current tastes, it’s super pretty. Really, it’s all I want now. The only thing I can think of that might be nicer qould be quilted maple, or that could get too busy. I’ve just got to find the right finishing recipe. Not sure if I want to darken it at all-probably not. Just put a nice finish on it. But I have a small bottle of Minwax tung oil, so I’ll try that on some scrap veneer and see if it looks better or worse.

Have fun out on the court.

[Hank]

For maximum grain "pop", AND a very smoooth, semi-glossy surface, you can't beat hand-rubbed Danish oil finish. You control the level of gloss by where you stop in your progression of wet-or-dry paper grit. I usually stop at 1,000-grit on rosewood. Pics of my A/V-3's are on page three of my low-end web site: http://www.geocities.com/hankbond1/index

[jonathanb3478]

I usually stop at 1,000-grit on rosewood.

I do not suppose you would be willing to throughly cover the steps you used to get your rosewood towers on page one to that color?

That looks about perfect to me, colorwise. I do not want a heavy gloss on my wood veneered surfaces.

My current plan is to hit the santos rosewood from TapeEase with Minwax's wipe-on poly, nothing else. Just sand it, and get down to business. I like what it did to the color of the cheap plywood I first tested it on. Have yet to test on the rosewood sample I have, however. Not convienient to break out the toxic chemicals, 'till next weekend.

[Hank]

Jonathan, I'm at lunch right now, but will get back here, hopefully this evening, and post my method.

[Amphiprion]

The pictures do no justice to Hank's work. I've thought about paying him to finish speakers for me, but with the time he puts into his finishes it would get pricey. At $5 an hour, a pair of bookshelf speaker might cost me a few thousand

[jonathanb3478]

I've thought about paying him to finish speakers for me, but with the time he puts into his finishes it would get pricey. At $5 an hour, a pair of bookshelf speaker might cost me a few thousand

This is DIY, not DIBPHT!

- D(o)I(t)B(y)P(aying)H(ank)T(housands) -

Jonathan, I'm at lunch right now, but will get back here, hopefully this evening, and post my method.

Thank you. That would be great!

Oh, and Mark seems to be weaking on his commitment to the DIY creed. You should set him straight on DIBPHT, so he quits having these "inapropriate thoughts" of his.






Also, I just got my "overstock special" qtr white oak 10-mil paperbacked veneer from TapeEase, for test veneering. Looks like it is flexible enough to veneer a pencil. Also, has a ~1/2" tear, and another >3" tear (this one was already taped up - to prevent growth of the tear). Both of these are on the edge that is the one made by the cut from the original 4'X8' sheet.

That means I will be using the bottom 17" or so for my test veneering of my mockup. That leaves me with a 4'X11" sheet (with tears) for further test veneering.

[Amphiprion]

This is DIY, not DIBPHT!

- D(o)I(t)B(y)P(aying)H(ank)T(housands) -

I keep telling Hank this is DIY, not DIBPFDCSD.

- D(o)I(t)B(y)P(aying)F(or)D(anny's)C(rappy)S(peaker )D(esigns)

Seriously though, some of us like certain aspects of the hobby better, and some of use are better at certain aspects of the hobby. I like the design the most, with finishing a second and box building a distant third (dirty, loud, monotonous thing box building is).

And as far as Hank building Danny's designs, I long for the day where Hank trusts me enough to whip him up a sweet little two-way or small three-way. Or when anyone else trusts me enough to do that for that matter

[Hank]

I'm BAAAACK! Sorry, I'm very busy these days, negotiating with a giant Japanese consumer electronics company (they've discovered this Texan ain't so easy to push around!).
Mark: Be a nice Texas gentleman. To most people, Danny's designs sound light years ahead of what they've heard in stores. I know it's difficult for us to accept, but most people aren't techno- junkie DIY golden-eared speakerheads. BTW, my daughter likes the look of my Rosewood A/V-3's so much, she asked for a pair for her wedding present. I don't have time to build any, so I'm giving her mine (talk about LOTS of hours finishing). So, I'll be ready to BUILD new speakers! :dancenana: Sorry, but I won't be in the market for a "sweet little 2 or 3-way" box. No sir, I'm going to step out of the box :rofl: and go dipole or line array. Jon has a design in his head (Saent-Sans) utilizing RD-50's and a line of Dayton premium mids. I'm going to keep an eye on that for one possibility. Maybe you could stick your design-itching finger into this venture.

Danish oil finish: First, let your freshly veneered cabinets sit for a week so the glue completely cures. Get a large pan to stand your cabinets in while you 'oil' them. Generously wipe on a coat of oil (I use Watco Danish oil) - really wet the veneer. Wait 15 minutes, then wipe it off across the grain.
Then, start with your favorite(tell him, Mark) abrasives manufacturer's Wet-or-Dry 400-grit. A drywall sanding handle works great - clamp a piece of WOD to it. Apply oil to the paper and very generously to one side of your cabinet. Rub the veneer WITH the grain, going slowly (this will take time, so don't wear yourself out). It is critical that you keep lots of oil on the veneer and paper. I use a turkey baster to dispense oil constantly. As you rub, you're creating a slurry of wood particles and oil that settle into and are forced into the veneer pores. For the first 'coat' especially, you'll be surprised how fast the oil disappears, so keep lots of oil on that veneer. How long for the 400-grit step? Depends on the cabinet size and the wood - the more open pored, the more time. For bookshelf size cabinets, try 15 - 20 minutes per side. Then, wait 15 minutes and wipe off the excess oil AGAINST the grain, so as to not pull out too much slurry. Wait 15 minutes, then wipe off oil that has surfaced, wiping against the grain. Next day (yes, 24 hours later) change to 600-grit. Next day, 800 grit. Like a satin finish? This may do it for you. I've done this finish only on Rosewood and Padauk, and for those I finish with 1,000-grit. I did do 1,200 grit once, just to say I went to excess.
Biggest pitfalls: #1 is oiling before your veneer glue has cured. I've read horror stories about guys oiling immediately after veneeering and then getting to watch their veneer bubble up. #2 is impatience - not enough rubbing, not enough drying between grits. After you're finished, wipe off excess oil that has weeped to the surface, maybe twice a day for a day or two. DO NOT use Pledge-type furniture "wax". It builds up with each application. Watco makes a wax that dissolves the layer under it with each application. BTW, twice a year with the Watco wax is plenty. Remember, oil finish is the very least protective finish for wood, so if someone sets his/her sweating glass of gin and tonic on top of your speaker, run across the room, grab the glass, dry off the water and force the idiot to rub on some oil.
There you have it - now go forth and RUB. :T

BTW, I've got to sell SOMEbody SOMEthing - I've got a wedding to pay for and a kid still in college! :roll:

[slayer]

"clamp a piece of WOD to it."???

[Amphiprion]

Mark: Be a nice Texas gentleman.

Hey, what happened to Mr. Dry Texas Humor? Let's not have another $2 has surcharge affair here

Re: designs, I've got to get my measurement and design system setup again. My current living situation doesn't exactly allow for that unfortunately....

[jonathanb3478]

Thanks for the description, Hank!

[ThomasW]

NOTE to anyone using Watco oil.

After they're used, the oil soaked rags should be placed in a firesafe container, DO NOT put them directly in a trash container.

I use a metal 1 gallon paint can, 1/3rd filled with water.

The Watco oil soaked rags have a long history of spontaneous combustion....(Google this if you don't believe me)

[Amphiprion]

I just got a sample of heavy figured anigre from Oakwood Veneer and it is GORGEOUS. Their quilted maple and quartersawn maple were very underwhelming though.

[Carl V]

I am usually much more pleased with the Veneers I get fomr Oakwood
as compared to Tapeease....nothing wrong with tapease. It's just that
I've been less the wowed with some crotch mahogony or Burl Walnut
or Mappa Burl fomr Tapease. Whereas Oakwood, Culrywoods & another
I've been wow'ed. Maybe it's just the $$-anticipation & seeing so-so
flitches.

Theis was made very evident when I ordered for some Household cabinetry
& verticle paneling projects.

Heavy Figured Anigre...hmmmm, sounds nice. How ya gonna finish it?
Yer' gonna want that to pop.

[Amphiprion]

I'm thinking, with such variation in quality between samples (the quilted maple looked crappy actually) that I'm just going to have to buy from places with good return policies (like Oakwood) or see it in person. The guy at the Rockler store in Dallas gave me the business card for who he called "The Queen of Veneers" in Dallas, some supplier who is willing to deal with individuals. I might have to get in touch with her and pick something out in person.

The heavy figured anigre was *gorgeous*. It popped without anything put on it. Tight, tight waves - practically fiddleback. I threw a quick coat of poly on it just to see what it did and it was nice.

[jonathanb3478]

I'm thinking, with such variation in quality between samples (the quilted maple looked crappy actually) that I'm just going to have to buy from places with good return policies (like Oakwood) or see it in person.

I am a bit worried about this myself. I will likely just bite the bullet and give it a go from TapeEase with the 4'X8' Santos Rosewood (Pau Ferro), regardless. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Right?

[Hank]

Thomas: Thank you for the safety tip reminder. I would have included it, but my post was getting a bit long. Guys, be careful with your oil-soaked rags/shop towels. I lay mine out on the conrete driveway in the sun for a day.

Jonathan: Go for it! Slow and methodical - don't rush. The results will be wood beauty at its best, for YEARS to come. I'm giving my latest Rosewood towers to my daughter as her wedding gift, because that's what she (an her fiance) wanted most.

You should be okay with that TapEase Rosewood. Let me know what you think about it. Wipe some oil on a small spot to get an idea of what the finished grain will look like.

[Amphiprion]

We lost our local "Fish Daddy" restaurant about a week before it was supposed to open due to oily stain rags left in the building. Now we've had some questionable restaurant fires in town recently, but this didn't seem to make sense like the others. Our excellent fire department managed to make it there in time and save the slab, however.

[jonathanb3478]

Jonathan: Go for it!

Oh, I will. Need a completed enclosure to put it on. I am getting some kind of sense of how long that will actually take. Went to my "woodshop" with my tools (~15 miles from home), and could not get myself to go outside and get any work done. Not at nearly 100 deg outside. I am just not into that kind of self sacrafice.

You should be okay with that TapEase Rosewood. Let me know what you think about it. Wipe some oil on a small spot to get an idea of what the finished grain will look like.

I will keep you in the loop on the wood, once I order it. I actually decided against an oil finish, just too much ongoing maintanence for my taste. I will try a poly finish on half of the sample I got, see if that will work for me. If not, I have the other half to use to test another option.

I am hoping to get a decent pair of DIY speakers (by me) everywhere I spend time. Things like my Mom's apartment and a couple of my friends' houses. Putting a poly finish on those should simplify my life, a bit.

[Amphiprion]

Keep the poly thin for the best appearance. Take the regular gloss minwax stuff, and thin it out about 2-1 or 3-1 with mineral spirits. I apply the first few coats with an old cotton sock, then sand them almost entirely off with 220. Once it's sealed and smooth, use those cheapy foam brushes at home depot (one-time use then toss) and keep applying/sanding with increasing grit. Should end up with a thin, glossy, moderately protective finish that doesn't look too plasticky and shows off the wood pretty decent.

That's the best way I've found to apply a poly finish, anyway. I think for rosewood, Hank's finish will still look the best, but I like how easily poly goes on and reflects light on more figured stuff myself.

[slayer]

TapEase veneer? Where can I see that?

[ThomasW]

http://www.tapeease.com/

[cobbpa]

I thought some may find this interesting...I travel and visit a lot of sawmills for my work, and today brought up veneer with one of the wood tech guys I talk to. He said they can run 200,000 feet of maple and get maybe 10% of it to have wormholes & nice darkspots, but in that same run maybe only a few board feet of it will be deemable "bird's eye". I'm not sure if that's because the parts of the tree more apt to producing it are shipped to mills that produce veneer (none of mine do) or just the basic rarity of it. I guess these unique grains come from where branches or lots of limbs split from the trunk, and they'll even dig up some stumps to knife off veneer (think potato peeler..knife, not saw). Anyway, just some little veneer tidbits I found interesting.

[Hank]

You are fortunate to see and learn what you do at those sawmills. Cool.

Two wood grain anomalies are Crotch and Burl figures. Crotch figure in a tree results from compressing of the fibers and they twist and turn into odd grain figure under compression. A more rare grain figure is Burl, which is a wart-like growth on a trunk or root or branch where the cells go wild due to injury or infection. Look at these two: http://www.tapeease.com/rare&.htm

[cobbpa]

Yah, I'm a business major, so I'm definitely learning about wood like I never expected...I see about 50 mills every couple of weeks, learning more & more every day. Now reading about veneer has me appreciating what I see a little more.

[JonW]

A little update on my finishing work, in case it’s of any help to anyone…

I’m putting tung oil on scraps of maple veneer. I like it. The tung oil darkens the maple, which is a little nice. But it also brings out the grain more. And adds a little shimmer or shine to the grain structure. I’m trying different numbers of coats. I’ll post photos of the various samples, maybe in about a week. Each coat needs ~24 hours to dry so it will take a while. I still haven’t decided how I’ll finish the speakers. But I think I’ll start with some tung oil. Then move on to the finishing.

Question: What tung oil do you folks like? I’m just using the Minwax stuff. Seems OK to me, but I don’t know what else is out there.

On the topic of adding veneer… This is my first attempt at veneering anything. I got bubble free flat cut maple from Oakwood. Looks quite nice. To my current tastes, I can hardly imagine much nicer. For putting it on, I’m using DAP gel contact cement (from Lowes). Brush on a coat on each the veneer and the speaker. Wait 45 minutes to dry (probably less time is OK). Add another coat and wait 45 minutes more. Then put the 2 pieces together and scrape down hard, to make good contact. I’m using a 4”x8” piece of 3/4” thick birch ply, lightly sanded at the short end, for my scraper. Everything is working great so far. I can’t imagine any other veneer method being much easier. I’ll post pics when I have a cabinet fully veneered. Maybe in a week or so.

[JonW]

Oh, another question:
Do I have to be concerned about the tung oil and the other finishing products (e.g., lacquer, polyurethanes, etc.) getting through the veneer and dissolving the contact cement?

[Jim Holtz]

Oh, another question:
Do I have to be concerned about the tung oil and the other finishing products (e.g., lacquer, polyurethanes, etc.) getting through the veneer and dissolving the contact cement?

Hi Jon,

No worries if you bought the Oakwood BFV (bubble free veneer) from Oakwood. The resin layers prevent the finish from penetrating through to the contact cement. After using "poly backed" veneer from another company and having problems with bubbling, I'll not use anything but Oakwood BFV. It works!

Jim

[JonW]

Hi Jon,

No worries if you bought the Oakwood BFV (bubble free veneer) from Oakwood. The resin layers prevent the finish from penetrating through to the contact cement. After using "poly backed" veneer from another company and having problems with bubbling, I'll not use anything but Oakwood BFV. It works!

Jim

Good to know- thanks Jim. :T


A question for you folks: How do you trim the veneer around port flares?

I have a flare I made in the rear baffle, using a 3/4" roundover router bit. I covered the rear baffle with veneer. Then had to figure out how to trim the veneer from the port. I tried using the same 3/4" roundover bit, but it didn't do quite as well as I hoped- it took off much of the veneer, but left some paper backing visible. I ended up triming it with a knife, by hand. And then sending, by hand. So it's OK, but not 100% round. Any suggestions?

[JonW]

A book on finishing

Oh, something else that might be relevant to this thread: I just ordered the book "Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Finishing (Complete Illustrated Guide)" by Jeff and Susan Jewitt. I heard it's pretty good. So I'll read that over and see what bright ideas come up for finishing my speakers.

The woodoworking on this Modula MT project has been great fun. And I want to put in that last bit of effort to make them really look great. But actually, I think a nice veneer and finishing job will be more like adding 25% work to the whole project. And I have some nice ideas in mind for the speaker stands.

Link to the book here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561585920/sr=8-1/qid=1151771204/ref=sr_1_1/002-3383460-3165605?ie=UTF8

[slayer]

Is there a way to turn Maple veneer into a blackwood finish? Like the Lincoln BlackWood truck finish? Or the finish on the Energy Encore speakers?
It looks like gloss black until the light hits it a certain way and then the grain shows.

[Amphiprion]

Somebody get a rope

[PMazz]

A question for you folks: How do you trim the veneer around port flares?

You can use the roundover bit and create a shallow shoulder by setting the bit depth deeper.

Pete

[ThomasW]

Is there a way to turn Maple veneer into a blackwood finish? Like the Lincoln BlackWood truck finish? Or the finish on the Energy Encore speakers?
It looks like gloss black until the light hits it a certain way and then the grain shows.

The fairly closed grain structure of maple wouldn't lend it to that effect. Oak would be the preferred wood for that....

[JonW]

You can use the roundover bit and create a shallow shoulder by setting the bit depth deeper.

Yeah, that's what I tried. The wood part of the veneer was taken out. But the paper backing of the veneer just got spun around some, and mashed down, and stuck in the bit blades. Maybe I should set the bit a little lower. I hesitated to do that for fear of taking off too much wood from the baffle. Hmmm...

[seattle_ice]

I did a desk with Indian Rosewood. Beautiful stuff, but I can't find it anymore.

(I did the desk 10 years ago)

[Amphiprion]

My curly maple (apologies for the image size):

http://www.hayenga.com/mark/speakers/xxls/IMG_0153.JPG

[palmtree]

Any updates from JonW? I am a lurker that is anxious to see how it turned out.

[chasw98]

I got email from him and he is busy writing grants for his department and laboratory. He is hoping to get some time to work on them soon. He has finally received all the XO parts.

Chuck