My first project is a 4 way speaker...

[cochinada]

I'm thinking it would be very difficult to cover with vinyl the surfaces in red and also for all the other holes as well...

[Steve Manning]

I'm thinking it would be very difficult to cover with vinyl the surfaces in red and also for all the other holes as well...

Image not available

You really might not need to cover those areas ...... they could be painted flat black to blend in with the drivers. Heck, if you can cover something like a car, a speaker should be easy

[cochinada]

Yeah I've been watching some videos of car wrapping and looks easy. This new vinyl looks much more tough and easy to apply using heat and re positioning as much as necessary.
Paradoxically or maybe not I'm thinking that a box with sharp edges could be more difficult to handle at least not without using several sheets of vinyl but that raises the question: won't the junctions be too much visible at the corners, that is?

Honestly I don't think this is feasible. In theory everything sounds possible but in practical terms not so quite...

There is no way to wrap it with one single piece of vinyl. On cars, generally there are all these body panels and it's quite feasible to use one sheet per each. The gaps between the panels serve as separation between sheets and this works just fine but here it is impossible. One would have to use one sheet per side and pray that the junction where two sides come together would be invisible. It would not be easy to decide where to separate the sheets and is some places it's unavoidable that will show. Look at the pictures where each color is a sheet...




It doesn't look so easy now I bet

[JonMarsh]

I can see your point, due to the topological complexity of the cabinets...

[cochinada]

I can see your point, due to the topological complexity of the cabinets...

Very well put.
Don't get me wrong as I would love this to be feasible as I would even be willing to do it myself but the main problem is the one I described in my opinion.

[cochinada]

How to fix a crack the 'carpenter' way...

[Steve Manning]

Now that's a clamp! Is he gluing in new pieces of BB?

[cochinada]

Now that's a clamp! Is he gluing in new pieces of BB?

I have no idea but I'm about to go there and find out what's the plan.

BTW, the clamp we see on the picture was to hold steady that piece attached which serves as a guide for the router to carve the slot where the crack used to be.

[cochinada]

Well, I was there and the plan indeed is to glue a BB slice on that carved out hole. The good news is that the crack, or should I say cracks, are mostly superficial and it is confirmed that it was the material itself that broke up and not an issue with the gluing. I wonder if this was also the case with all you guys that faced similar issues... do you remember?

My carpenter also thinks that it will not be necessary to make those giant perpendicular holes after all so the plan is to do the same for the other cracks. In about a week or so they should be ready for painting. Let's see...

BTW, I have a question to the Dark Lord or whoever can answer: what does it take to do that flawless piano black paint? I mean, one layer of paint? Two perhaps? And what about the varnish? Is there any recipe for dummies?

[cochinada]

No feedback guys?

Well I have a few more pictures to share. After sanding and two coats of primary this is what it looks like...

[wkhanna]

i, for one, am sad to see the natural finish go away.

however, these will will be quite impressive in piano black.

[cochinada]

I always new this was going to be a long process. My carpenter/painter is having some issues with dust so this was just a test done on the smaller cabinet. You will notice some specks here and there...

[Steve Manning]

Getting there ..... gloss black is very unforgiving when it comes to imperfections in the surface and dust bunnies. I'm sure it will look great when all is said and done.

[JonMarsh]

This is one of the toughest finishes in the world to to well...

[5th element]

Amen to that Jon, it's why I've never attempted it! Anyone that does has my utmost respect!

[cochinada]

The plot thickens...

If the dust was not bad enough, now it seems that from a certain angle the layers are still noticeable. Indeed if you look carefully at the pictures you'll see something fishy. First I thought it was just a reflex perhaps from the ceiling...

The first problem he told me it can be fixed by polishing but for the second one, according to a painting expert, we need to use an air-less powder before the painting so he's going to sand it again and use this product. I was searching and it looks something akin to this:

http://en.baixens.com/ver/279/-RX-604-Rualaix-Finition-Airless-in-Powder-.html

According to the technical sheet it looks promising:

"Airless powder plaster for indoor use. Especially suitable for smoothing absorbent surfaces which have previously been prepared with rx-602 rualaix renovation airless in powder or any other compatile plaster in rualaix range in order to achieve a perfect planimetry."

[JonMarsh]

That does sound promising... surface preparation and working conditions are both critical to getting the desired results!

[LFM2]

The only way of getting the enclosures perfectly flat is to use several layers of high build primer sanding with a large flat sanding block and guide coat.after each layer. The dust particles will usually disappear after the final buff out.

[Jororaitchev]

I've looked at yours remarkable project, really a lot of means, a desire and a big problem - not the right choice of a carpenter!

[LFM2]

I don't want you to become discouraged during this process.It sounds like your carpenter is really trying hard to please.The finish straight out of the spray booth is hyper revealing of any flaws due to the total absence of any fine scratches.Two things will happen that will improve things.The finish as it cures will shrink and this causes many flaws to look better. Most importantly, the polishing and buffing will introduce super fine scratches break up light reflections making the surface look perfect.I think your carpenter should wet sand with 2000 and 3000 grit paper then buff out with a fine polishing compound.You should bring home a piece that has been treated this way and see how it looks in your livingroom. I think they will look fantastic.

[cochinada]

I'm feeling rather optimistic now after seeing how my carpenter is handling this process which after all is also new to him. True that he's not Steve Manning and the first time I got the speakers they were not up to my expectations but like they say "every cloud has a silver lining." and so the cracks were a wonderful opportunity to correct all the issues.

To put things in perspective, it's not like I had much choices here in Portugal. At the time I was building my Zaph SB12.3 I've made 20 or more contacts. Some didn't even bother to answer, many didn't use CNC whereas I remember one guy that asked me with the utmost disdain if I really thought that it was worthy to program a CNC just to cut a couple of speakers. Then I also received some completely outrageous proposals so after all was set and done this guy was my pick, not only because he gave me a fair price but also because he seemed interested and professional enough. With time I came to know him better and I can vouch he's really an honest fellow which is more than I can say nowadays for many people out there. We also need to be fair as he was not used to build speakers before so he's on a learning curve. Anyway he cares enough and tries to do the best he can.

Last but not least I have to remember that he's not asking me to pay anything as he reckons this is a repairing during the guarantee period...

[Steve Manning]

Thanks Joaquim very kind of you ..... I knew I held back on posting my screw ups for a reason Actually it appears that your guy is doing a pretty good job and willing to work with you. It's always tough when you have a picture of perfection in your head and have to deal with your own limitations and that of others. The guy I worked with on Jon's Minerva project discovered that I was a rather picky SOB compared to most of his customers. I think the project turned out rather well, though I see plenty of room for improvement ..... next time. Just part of the journey.

[JonMarsh]

I'm feeling rather optimistic now after seeing how my carpenter is handling this process which after all is also new to him. True that he's not Steve Manning and the first time I got the speakers they were not up to my expectations but like they say "every cloud has a silver lining." and so the cracks were a wonderful opportunity to correct all the issues.

To put things in perspective, it's not like I had much choices here in Portugal. At the time I was building my Zaph SB12.3 I've made 20 or more contacts. Some didn't even bother to answer, many didn't use CNC whereas I remember one guy that asked me with the utmost disdain if I really thought that it was worthy to program a CNC just to cut a couple of speakers. Then I also received some completely outrageous proposals so after all was set and done this guy was my pick, not only because he gave me a fair price but also because he seemed interested and professional enough. With time I came to know him better and I can vouch he's really an honest fellow which is more than I can say nowadays for many people out there. We also need to be fair as he was not used to build speakers before so he's on a learning curve. Anyway he cares enough and tries to do the best he can.

Last but not least I have to remember that he's not asking me to pay anything as he reckons this is a repairing during the guarantee period...

That's definitely the kind of guy you want to work with- as is Steve Manning, which I can vouch from personal experience! :T

[cochinada]

Indeed it seems that we are now much closer to the finishing line. This is how they look after the 2nd layer of this product. Between layers we must wait at least 48h for a complete cure. You will notice how it looks much more smooth, wouldn't you agree?

[Zvu]

Well not quite...

[cochinada]

Well, sorry about the inconvenient but it turns out that Photo-bucket is not free anymore and I'm certainly not going to pay $59,99 / YR.
Do you know of any free alternatives?

[Zvu]

I do it with https://postimages.org

[cochinada]

I do it with https://postimages.org

Thanks. I'm using it now.

I apologize for the inconvenient but due to the change of policy of Photo-bucket the images I've posted are no longer visible. It's impossible for me to update each and everyone of them as I can't remember all. I will just try to the best of my abilities to update at least the last I've posted.

[Zvu]

Thanks. I'm using it now.

I apologize for the inconvenient but due to the change of policy of Photo-bucket the images I've posted are no longer visible. It's impossible for me to update each and everyone of them as I can't remember all. I will just try to the best of my abilities to update at least the last I've posted.

There's nothing you should apologize for. They count on that - the lack of ability of users to update each and every one of uploaded photo - to conduct their rip of.

[cochinada]

No pictures yet but first layer of paint was applied Yesterday so I can see a light at the end of the tunnel at last!

[cochinada]

Drying in the paint booth after the second coat applied...

[cochinada]

I need help, or better saying, my carpenter needs help! When I thought that the end was near the nightmare begun. He doesn't know how to polish these things. He told me that when everything starts to look great and shinny then some parts of the surface loose the varnish as if he was polishing them too much and he has to put another coat of lacquer and start all over again. I asked him if perhaps he was not being too aggressive but he told me this is not the case. To make things worse he went on vacations and had only returned today.

So, can anyone please tell me how one is supposed to polish and does this explanation he's telling me make any sense to you?

[Steve Manning]

I'm certainly no expert on the process, but I do know some top coats need at least 2 weeks or more to cure before you want to start the polishing process. I've used this process with good results with water based finish.

[cochinada]

I'm certainly no expert on the process, but I do know some top coats need at least 2 weeks or more to cure before you want to start the polishing process. I've used this process with good results with water based finish.

Thanks Steve! I will tell this to my carpenter.

[BobEllis]

.. and he has to put another coat of lacquer and start all over again...

ANother coat or several new coats? One coat of lacquer sprayed properly won't give much thickness to allow for polishing. Agree with Steve, that most products not cured with heat (like some automotive paints) need at least a week to fully harden. I usually give it twice the time the finish manufacturer recommends, just to be sure to allow for higher humidity and lower than specified temperatures for cure time.

Another possibility is that the surface below the lacquer isn't as flat as the sanding block he's using. If the rub through occurs in the same place repeatedly then it's back to surface prep and then respray.

EDIT: Another thought, if your carpenter isn't used to polishing curved surfaces his technique may need to change a bit. Smaller, softer sanding blocks to allow following curves where a stiff straight block makes it easy to sand through the apex of the curve. If he's getting to final polishing, he should take a look at 3M Perfect-it polishing pads. They're great. [http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-u...3241537&rt=rud

I know this has been a frustrating project, but you're getting close to the finish line. (pun unintentional)

[Steve Manning]

+1 on what Bob said ..... more top coats is good to give you a buffer.

[cochinada]

Thanks Bob. I will transmit this information as well. Yes this is really frustrating to say the least.

[LFM2]

It would be very helpful to know exactly what product your painter is using.I suspect it is an old school lacquer. It has a lot of solvents in it and goes on very thin.It wasn't uncommon back in the day for custom car paint jobs to be 20 or 30 coats. It is very soft after it dries and can take months for the solvents to evaporate and the cure to take place. Due to these traits it can be built up in many layers with a good bond between. It should cure for at least a couple of weeks before a first polish and months before a final polish. A very light sand with 2000 or 3000 grit and a wipe with a tack rag between coats is required. Perfection is not necessary in the early coats and most or all imperfections are eliminated in the final polish.
Lacquers can still provide amazing results and in some ways is very user friendly. Its a bit more labor intensive.

[cochinada]

20 or 30 coats??? 8O I hope my carpenter doesn't have a heart attack when I tell him this.
Thanks!

[Steve Manning]

I just read an article last night about the TIDAL Piano Diacera G2 speakers. Here's a little blurb on how they are finished .....

"TIDAL Audio speakers are well known for their finishes. Some 25kg of polyester piano-lacquer finish is applied to each black Piano Diacera G2 speaker, then polished by hand in a several-months-long process that results in a 3mm-thick, perfectly flat finish."

If that doesn't give your carpenter a heart attack nothing will!

[cochinada]

That will give us both a double heart attack. 3mm is absolutely insane!

[LFM2]

We surely don't want to be responsible for your carpenter's demise. My point was that you just can't spray on another coat over the areas polished through and expect it to fix the problem. It will probably take 3 or 4 coats to be safe. I am curious as to what he is using for the buffing compound. It could well be that the compound is too aggressive.Auto supply stores have the full gamut from coarse rubbing compound to fine swirl and haze removal products. I recommend that he respray 3 or 4 wet coats in succession. The finish manufacturer will have a recommended recoat time. Allow time for a suitable cure. I would wait a week before touching them. I recommend starting with a fine compound as it least likely to go through to the base coat. This is opposite of the pro method. It will reveal the flaws and areas that need extra attention and is not going to go through. Carefully go at these with a coarser compound. Keep going from coarse to fine until you are happy. I consistently get great results by using this backward method.

[cochinada]

Thanks LFM2! He didn't tell me what compound he's using but this definitely sounds a very good advise, also inline with the common opinion i got here of using extra coats of lacquer.

[JonMarsh]

I believe the Dai Katana's have about 1/2-3/4 mm. There were a lot of layers applied to them, multiple kg, though no one tracked how much. How much is needed is easily underestimated, which is whey there were stripped and re-done after the first try with a more conservative and expensive approach.

Good luck with the rework...

[Srixon]

We surely don't want to be responsible for your carpenter's demise. My point was that you just can't spray on another coat over the areas polished through and expect it to fix the problem. It will probably take 3 or 4 coats to be safe. I am curious as to what he is using for the buffing compound. It could well be that the compound is too aggressive.Auto supply stores have the full gamut from coarse rubbing compound to fine swirl and haze removal products. I recommend that he respray 3 or 4 wet coats in succession. The finish manufacturer will have a recommended recoat time. Allow time for a suitable cure. I would wait a week before touching them. I recommend starting with a fine compound as it least likely to go through to the base coat. This is opposite of the pro method. It will reveal the flaws and areas that need extra attention and is not going to go through. Carefully go at these with a coarser compound. Keep going from coarse to fine until you are happy. I consistently get great results by using this backward method.

Griot's Garage is a supplier of fine automotive cleaning and finishing products. They specialize in selling high quality buffing compounds geared towards collectors and car show guys. I use their stuff on my cars and have never been disappointed.