Three Way Evil Design Study

[dar47]

Jon, sorry to hear of your GF's loss and things always go better when we are not under stress.

Take your time and that slow work your always mentioning is better with a lite heart.

[JonMarsh]

Jon, sorry to hear of your GF's loss and things always go better when we are not under stress.

Take your time and that slow work your always mentioning is better with a lite heart.

Thanks for the kind words- this has been a difficult few months. Hopefully things will settle down in a bit.

[JonMarsh]

Crossover update check

Boy, I sure do love Tuesdays off from work. :B


I've implemented the last LspCAD updates into the physical test crossover, with "production" components (high DCR inductor for mid BSC, for example; new mid HF zobel caps, new resistor networks, all pretty much doubled up Mundorfs as shown in the schematic).




I checked all the individual curves for the woofer, mid, and tweeter, and measured the total at 0 degrees, 25 degrees, and 40 degrees off axis (sure do love those two speaker turntables I built, and glad I overbuilt them for the Ardent, as at 250 lb, the lazy susan bearings can cope with the Isiris fine.)




This is in the "voiced" position with the tweeter level softened, and slightly more roll off contouring on the midrange. Looks good on paper, and sounds quite nice to me, though as I swapped out the preamp to my Cambridge (it's flatter in the extreme treble, and gives more accurate measurements), their are other things that may account for sonic differences than the crossover update. Still, it's in the right direction; clear, detailed but relaxed. A little on axis sparkle that I suppose the ribbon lovers would dig, but the overall power response (look at the 40 degree curve!) is quite nice, extended and smooth. I expect the measured response to smooth out even with this long gate (125 msec) with some diffraction control measures in place with the grille assemblies.

Back to woodworking now. Oh, and the new organ is out for delivery, according to FedEX! Wooo Hooo! :B

[JonMarsh]

Major distraction arrived....

Wooo Hooo!


;b> arty: :clap: :dothewave: :dancenana:





:drool:

[Johnloudb]

Wow, fancy!!! Didn't know you played the keyboard. Sure you'll have fun with that!

[JonMarsh]

Wow, fancy!!! Didn't know you played the keyboard. Sure you'll have fun with that!

Worked my way through school playing keyboards and guitar in bands. More fun than the usual college jobs, but more work and stress, too.

I do aim to have some fun with this- it's the closest thing functionally and tonally to my old Hammond B3, except it weights about 350 lb less, and is more flexible and versatile- the built in Leslie sim isn't bad (stereo), but it's not a Leslie tone cabinet. Maybe the end of the year...

It's going to take some time to get some chops back. Figured better to start sooner than later. This is a new model, from an Italian company that relocated their factory to the USA.

[JonMarsh]

Real work today-

Also got fine sanding to 220 grit done on the cabinet #2 bass module, and Seal-A-Cell mixed 1:2 with System Three silica powder applied as sealer and pore filling layer on three sides of the bass module. I think this is going to look OK... the LBL takes a nice sanding to baby butt smoothness and will hold it, due to it's hardness. Probably will sand the top module this evening, after work out and dinner.

[Squidspeak]

Worked my way through school playing keyboards and guitar in bands. More fun than the usual college jobs, but more work and stress, too.

I do aim to have some fun with this- it's the closest thing functionally and tonally to my old Hammond B3, except it weights about 350 lb less, and is more flexible and versatile- the built in Leslie sim isn't bad (stereo), but it's not a Leslie tone cabinet. Maybe the end of the year...

It's going to take some time to get some chops back. Figured better to start sooner than later. This is a new model, from an Italian company that relocated their factory to the USA.

Jon,the new toy looks great,Are they trying to make
a modern and (lighter) version of the B3. Is the Leslie cab you refer to the one with the spinning horn? Some of my
favorite classic rock featured the B3, most notably " Traffick-Empty Pages" Mike

[5th element]

So your bought the diamond tweeters AND the organ, hehe livin' it large as they say. Large and with a significantly lighter bank balance, but if you don't spend your hard earned cash, then how you can possibly enjoy it! I thoroughly endorse this type of behaviour.

[JonMarsh]

Jon,the new toy looks great,Are they trying to make
a modern and (lighter) version of the B3. Is the Leslie cab you refer to the one with the spinning horn? Some of my
favorite classic rock featured the B3, most notably " Traffick-Empty Pages" Mike

Even Hammond-Suzuki makes an electronics version that is light, but none of the other "clone-wheels" have the full control layout with the reverse color presets, full dual drawbar sets for each manual (selected by the Bflat and B present key), and a control layout that is essentially identical to a B3 or C3, including the vibrato/swell controls. It has a lot of other neat stuff, note the control panel on the left, which includes control for mixing the key click level, the percussion decay, bass and treble, cross talk and overdrive (the latter can get you a real nice Jon Lord (Deep Purple) kind of sound). Also, the the output is stereo, with a pretty decent Leslie tone cabinet simulation (yes, the rotating top horns and the rotating baffle on the downward pointing woofer- I've had one of those since the time I was playing in high school, it can make even a mediocre instrument sound pretty good. The problem with the simulation is that it's only two points in space, where as the Leslie cabinet throws sound out all around and has a much bigger dimension to it. But it's not bad, just sort of one dimensional, like a lot of Hammond recordings wind up being, unfortunately.

Yeah, a lot of my favorite stuff back in those days used the Hammond; stuff we used to play, including Loggins and Messina, Allman Brothers, Nice, Jethro Tull, Yes, Wishbone Ash, Traffic, etc. There's other stuff I'm into, too, more in the area of Jazz and blues.



FedEX says the dedicated stand will be delivered tomorrow! No more CostCo table! BTW, it sound pretty dang decent for practice just with the AudioEngine A5 speakers perched on the corners with a stereo feed. I think I can live with that for a while.

[JonMarsh]

So your bought the diamond tweeters AND the organ, hehe livin' it large as they say. Large and with a significantly lighter bank balance, but if you don't spend your hard earned cash, then how you can possibly enjoy it! I thoroughly endorse this type of behaviour.

Well, you know, I've worked pretty hard quite a few years, saved a lot, daughters grown up, and people are dying like flies around me this year- sort of figure "Carpe Diem" should be a working motto. The new Application Engineer on the West Coast we hired early last year that I'm mentoring, his mother in law passed away yesterday, after three weeks in critical care. She's the same age as I am, 61. Several acquaintances or relations died at 58 when I was 58. It's kind of creepy, you know... None of us live for ever, but I've got a lot of stuff left to do- figure I should go about doing it, you know? So that's what I'm doing.

Oh, and those Jantzen diamond tweeters? Every time I put some music on I break out in a big grin- it's the best cymbal bell tone and overall brass sound I've ever heard at home. Best sounding tweeters I've ever owned. The Scanspek 6640 are very good, but these are better. That's clear even on old recordings like Loggins & Messina, or early Jacque Loussier trio recordings from the 60's.

Going to Munich or Villach early in April, and going to do my best to get to the Northern CA DIY April 20. WITH something to show and tell....
...and this June I'm really looking forward to the the Coast to Coast hike in England as part of a Sierra club group. Last years was a lot of fun, I'm really looking forward to this one, and expect to be better prepared. Have a better small camera for the difficult hiking areas (Sigma DP3 Merrill), but a better lens selection for my medium format, too.

Bring it on... :W

[Norm]

Jon,

Another great thread, your work/play is what made Mission Possible DIY a site I visit frequently.

A couple of things to add today.........

First your recommendation of the Hoffman re-mastering of Yes’ Close To The Edge is spot on. I have been listening to that music on all formats since its release in 1972 and this version on both the CD and SACD layers is a revelation.

Second given your long use of Leslie equipped Hammond organs are you aware they produced hi-fi speakers?

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=340157

I actually heard a set oh so many years ago. Way too long ago to recall the sound, plus I was very young and just being allowed in the Holy of Holies (i.e. high end demo room) at that dealership was enough to skew any listening evaluation. As I recall the model I heard had more of a Mid-Century Modern styling with chromed metal square tubing holding up the top panel and the pivoting mid-tweeter baffle nicely finished and left exposed.

I hope you won’t get depressed at all the wasted work you did cutting the facets into your speaker cabinets when simply mounting tweeters and midranges on a hammer head shaped baffle will suffice. Of course with two forward facing and what appears to be a rear facing tweet per side that would require six of the diamond diaphragm tweeters you are so fond of…..



Given Evil Twin’s involvement in transmitting The Emperor’s command/specifications one would think they would have given you a head’s up on the positive acoustic properties of Hammerheads. However let me hasten to add I am in no way manner shape or form questioning His Imperial Highness.

[JonMarsh]

Jon,

Another great thread, your work/play is what made Mission Possible DIY a site I visit frequently.

A couple of things to add today.........

First your recommendation of the Hoffman re-mastering of Yes’ Close To The Edge is spot on. I have been listening to that music on all formats since its release in 1972 and this version on both the CD and SACD layers is a revelation.

Second given your long use of Leslie equipped Hammond organs are you aware they produced hi-fi speakers?

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=340157

I actually heard a set oh so many years ago. Way too long ago to recall the sound, plus I was very young and just being allowed in the Holy of Holies (i.e. high end demo room) at that dealership was enough to skew any listening evaluation. As I recall the model I heard had more of a Mid-Century Modern styling with chromed metal square tubing holding up the top panel and the pivoting mid-tweeter baffle nicely finished and left exposed.

I hope you won’t get depressed at all the wasted work you did cutting the facets into your speaker cabinets when simply mounting tweeters and midranges on a hammer head shaped baffle will suffice. Of course with two forward facing and what appears to be a rear facing tweet per side that would require six of the diamond diaphragm tweeters you are so fond of…..



Given Evil Twin’s involvement in transmitting The Emperor’s command/specifications one would think they would have given you a head’s up on the positive acoustic properties of Hammerheads. However let me hasten to add I am in no way manner shape or form questioning His Imperial Highness.

And who says there isn't something old that's new under the sun... or something?!?

NO, I've never heard that they produced HiFi speaker systems... truly a unique revelation for me today, and something bringing more than a few chuckles, including the high degree of correlation of the "hammer-head" configurations! One of the most interesting surprises this week, and more than a small chuckle!

Yes, I don't think even at their most healthy point the imperial coffers could afford that lavish a deployment of diamond tweeters!

And first for last, glad you found the Audio Fidelity Yes remaster to be the same degree of revelation I have- now, I'm extra motivated to get the Vanity93 board installed in my Oppo93 so I can rip the SACD layer and compare... and I'm definitely watching what Hoffman is doing these days and in the future with Audio Fidelity... Imagine if they had something like a remaster of Quadrophenia at that level of quality?

[JonMarsh]

Finishing under way

One cabinet is on the turntable and has the base seal coat with silica and three follow up coats on board. It's looking pretty good up close, but it's hard to photograph and get a sense of it, especially as the room has natural and artificial light of several types! What looks like a smudge on the upper part of the bass module is just a reflection. I'm building up gloss layers, then will do a final satin layer.



Unfortunately this doesn't do it justice to how it looks up close and personal. Maybe I'll be able to photograph that better later. I'm happy with how the finish is developing; it's definitely exceeding my initial goal of looking better than MDF sprayed with truck bed liner... :W

The turntable is invaluable for rotating the cabinet and being able to apply the Arm-R-Seal easily to all surfaces from top to bottom. Tomorrow AM I'll drop the drivers out of the other cabinet, drape this one temporarily, and send the first cabinet. Then it will go on the second turntable.


As I have another decent sized piece of the thin white phenolic board around, it occurs to me I can use a different unified "more pretty" layout for the combined midrange/tweeter crossover, so I'm going to start figuring that out shortly... also need to get cracking on cable sets. But the end is in sight, and the Northern CA DIY is a real possibility if it will all fit in the vehicle...

[5th element]

I bet you can't wait to get stereo up and running. If mono is impressive stereo should take your breath away. I'm always amazed at how much better stereo sounds than mono.

[JonW]

Jon,

Wow. That's quite the dramatic looking speaker. Glad to see it coming together so nicely. I bet they'll sound amazing. Especially in stereo.

And thanks for the heads up on the Yes album. I used to be really into them when I was a kid. It was on tapes that I played so much that I wore them out. Haven't listened to them in ages and maybe it's time to get those old albums.

[JonMarsh]

Jon,

Wow. That's quite the dramatic looking speaker. Glad to see it coming together so nicely. I bet they'll sound amazing. Especially in stereo.

And thanks for the heads up on the Yes album. I used to be really into them when I was a kid. It was on tapes that I played so much that I wore them out. Haven't listened to them in ages and maybe it's time to get those old albums.

If you liked them in the past, you'll love this new re-master by Audio Fidelity. I remember when I built my first "home hifi" set of 12" three way systems, finished them just before Christmas '73, after my GF and I had moved into a house with some friends in Boulder, "Close to the Edge" was one of the first things I played on them, with a new Lenco turntable, and we just thought that was the cat's meow! Robin's cats didn't, though- probably a little too loud for them. They eventually came back out from under the bed...

Of course, there's a lot of great albums they did besides "Close to the Edge"; Re-union is probably my favorite of the newer ones, I used to hike all over Munich in 1991 on the weekends when I was there working for six months, listening to that over and over on my Sony discman. it would be super if a bunch of their albums received that kind of treatment. I even like the ones that didn't necessarily do all that well commercially, like Relayer and Tales from Topographic Oceans.

Just put another coat on this evening; now I'm going to let this one sit up and harden for 48 hours, then hit it with 320 grit, and go for a couple of coats of satin, and see how that works out. Yes, as time is getting tight, I skipped the test finish on scrap wood, as it occurred to me I could actually have one of the speakers done in the same amount of time.

The plan is that I'll have both speakers through the initial finishing by early this week and they'll roughly a week to harden up before assembly and taking them over to GF's.

[JonMarsh]

I bet you can't wait to get stereo up and running. If mono is impressive stereo should take your breath away. I'm always amazed at how much better stereo sounds than mono.

That will be a REAL treat if it works out that way! Cross fingers! It's been a long journey, but still shouldn't count my chickens yet, huh? :W

A project like this is quite a gamble- it's annoying if you sink a few hundred into an idea and it doesn't really work out the way you want, but this is like betting the company...

[JonMarsh]

By the way, a big "Shout Out" to General Finishes!!!

Their Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are by far the best wipe on finish type of products I've tested; Minwax, Watco and others I've used in the past are so far behind it isn't even funny. It's no surprise the Woodworks TV show uses it as their mainstream finishing technique and product. Wish I'd known about them when doing the Arvo Part Picante baffles Xmas 2011.

[gbegland]

Aaaahhhh, Yes Union. It would be most excellent if that got remastered properly. There is a lot of fantastic production going on in that album so it makes for a headphone eargasm, BUT it is on the bright side of the spectrum and I'd love for Steve to get his hands on the masters and tone it down a little bit.

I've got that and several other Yes covers signed by Roger Dean back working at the record shop in college. Roger came by for a meet & great and book signing for one if his art books.

Greg

[JonMarsh]

Aaaahhhh, Yes Union. It would be most excellent if that got remastered properly. There is a lot of fantastic production going on in that album so it makes for a headphone eargasm, BUT it is on the bright side of the spectrum and I'd love for Steve to get his hands on the masters and tone it down a little bit.

I've got that and several other Yes covers signed by Roger Dean back working at the record shop in college. Roger came by for a meet & great and book signing for one if his art books.

Greg

That's pretty cool, Greg!

Maybe we should start a letter writing campaign to Audio-Fidelity for some of our favorite Yes albums- I'd certainly do that for Union!

BTW, the KeyB duo is pretty dang righteous- plays great and is highly "tunable" to different sounds, even with a wax cap and Mylar cap modeling built in, and a very decent overdrive function. The Leslie sim in stereo is pretty decent, but doesn't really compare well with a good triple mic setup on a tone cabinet (two on the top rotors and one on the bottom) - it just doesn't have the same dimensionality, much less the in room sound. But it's enough to satisfy me for practice... And enough to motivate me for saving for a 3300.

Back on topic, three coats of the satin have been applied to one cabinet set today, after completing the 320 grit leveling sand on the 5 coats of glossy, so I think I'm ready to declare one cabinet has completed finishing work, as long as I like the way the look in the light of day tomorrow morning.

[PMazz]

Weren't you going to spray or am I mixing up threads?

[sdl2112]

By the way, a big "Shout Out" to General Finishes!!!

Their Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are by far the best wipe on finish type of products I've tested; Minwax, Watco and others I've used in the past are so far behind it isn't even funny. It's no surprise the Woodworks TV show uses it as their mainstream finishing technique and product. Wish I'd known about them when doing the Arvo Part Picante baffles Xmas 2011.

+1 :T once I found this combo used by David Marks of Woodworks it became my wood finish of choice, it's so easy to apply with great results.

[PMazz]

Keep in mind it will yellow over time.

[JonMarsh]

Keep in mind it will yellow over time.

I was going to spray; have all the gear. But then GF's sister died and between GF's upcoming travel for that to the East Coast next week and my own travel shortly after, the only way to finish these by the northern CA DIY was to take a detour. Considering the color of the LBL, yellowing won't be easy to detect. And there's the option of refinishing them later.

I've got some other furniture stuff to do for first spray project, but at the rate things are going and happening, that won't happen until after the middle of June when we're back from England.

[Steve Manning]

Man I wish I lived closer I would love to these things in person there looking great as is, I can imagine how that bamboo pops with that finish. I used the same stuff on my equipment rack and it did a great job.

[JonMarsh]

Man I wish I lived closer I would love to these things in person there looking great as is, I can imagine how that bamboo pops with that finish. I used the same stuff on my equipment rack and it did a great job.

I think when I try photographing them at GF's I'll use my medium format Pentax- it has great color rendition and of course resolution out the wazoo... though the DP3 Merrill may do pretty well, also- the Fovean sensor has very interesting color rendition, as it has RGB sites at every pixel, unlike conventional digital cameras.

I am very impressed with the General Finishes stuff. Although I'm going with satin on the final coats, the clear gloss looked pretty dang cool- overall, it did pull the color and grain up nicely! BTW, I used the Seal-A-Cell at about 1:2 with silica powder for pore filing- worked out pretty well.

I'll have to figure out a better way to host a "good" pic than Photbucket, which does so much processing and compression. For now, I'll just be happy if I can have these running in stereo by mid April, both cabinets finished. I think it's doable, but will take keeping the push on...

[cjd]

The photo will be allllll about the lighting.

I have an umbrella setup that works with bog standard flashes - I have a Canon 580 and 480 (probably have the numbers wrong) plus the IR device to put on my camera. Works wonders, and is a very inexpensive way to get a flash/umbrella setup...

That's not to say it won't be fun using the Pentax.

[JonMarsh]

The photo will be allllll about the lighting.

I have an umbrella setup that works with bog standard flashes - I have a Canon 580 and 480 (probably have the numbers wrong) plus the IR device to put on my camera. Works wonders, and is a very inexpensive way to get a flash/umbrella setup...

That's not to say it won't be fun using the Pentax.

totally agree, it's always about the lighting... GF has one wall totally glass in her big family room- get's some nice light, too, later in the after noon- not direct but reflected. A bit soft, but a nice spectrum.

[cjd]

totally agree, it's always about the lighting... GF has one wall totally glass in her big family room- get's some nice light, too, later in the after noon- not direct but reflected. A bit soft, but a nice spectrum.

Sounds like a nice room for photos... but a bit rough(er) for sound!

[JonMarsh]

Best laid plans...

Gang aft aglay

Well, Easter weekend turned into a work extravaganza for me due to some poor planning by a manager and an IT problem and delayed IT upgrade.

Still, as of last night, the last satin coat of finish went on the last cabinet, and now we'll be down to wiring and assembly, and finishing the second crossover, which is about 60% complete. The second mid/treble crossover is being built on one board, just to see if I can do a slightly prettier layout; alas, I'm no Troels Gravesen!

This picture is still unsatisfying, due to lighting, but I'm fairly happy with how the finish looks "in the flesh", or rather, "in the bamboo".



Well, we'll see if I can squeeze in any more time to work on them this week before flying out to Munich at O dark thirty on Thursday morning.

And in the best news this week, my favorite restaurant in Livermore, Strings, an Italian place that's reasonably authentic, re-opened yesterday evening after being closed since New Years when an SUV piloted by a pure moron drove in through on window and out through another side cattie corner, basically on a diagonal. Fortunately no one was seriously hurt when the accident occurred, but they've been closed for 3 months! THREE MONTHS! For a place I usually patronize once or twice a week!

[JonMarsh]

Brrr, it's cold here!

Well, I'm having some fun this weekend, though not making progress on the build, as I arrived in Munich Friday.

I'm having to go retro on the seasons, as the overnight low is about 32F, and the high in the low 40's, with an appropriate looking sky...



This is right by my hotel, on Hochstrasse off of RosenheimerStrasse. Note those threadbare trees- no buds or blooms here yet!

But inside the hotel room things are nice and warm, and there are audio kinds of things to do...



The ripped SACD version of "Beyond Words" by Oregon is, uh, spinning? without a disk? Lets just say it's playing fine off the SSD drive through Audirvana at 24/176.4. Have run some other stuff through, like Loggins and Messina, Harry James, Police, and Spyro Gyra (In Modern Times).

It's been a bit of a keystone cops comedy getting this actually running; yesterday, anticipating the delivery by my colleague today, I walked to Conrad Electronics (about a mile and a half away) and got a USB 3 cable, not realizing that the "B" type connector is different and not compatible. Went back Friday and got a USB 2 cable. Then, today I found out that my 115V power supply version wasn't delivered with a 115V IEC power cord, which I suppose if I'd been thinking, I would have brought one along. Back to Conrad Electronics, who only had standard IEC to European power connectors cables, but they DID have a Euro to USA cable adapter- after dropping another 20 Euros, back to the hotel room and got things running.

But I couldn't fire up the re-clocker, because Conrad didn't have BNC to RCA adapters (which Radio Shack does...) though Conrad has just about anything else electrical, including test instruments, solar installation fittings, mobiles, PC's, and A/V cables, and professional audio cables. And the very special and expensive S/PDIF cable my friend had loaned me was RCA on both ends. But I'd custom ordered the DAC with BNC, being the techno-dweeb that I AM... Oh well...

If I had to describe my impressions in one work, it would clearly be "focus". Like a really high end prime lens- best analogy I can think of. I think of time smear and jitter artifacts as being like chromatic aberration, which compromises contrast and detail even when you don't see it at edge boundaries.

The real limitation right now I'd say is the headphones I brought along, some compact on the ear $200 Harmon Kardon. Compared with some similarly sized B&W's headphone I have, they're overall better, significantly better in some areas, but a bit soft in the presence region. Still, focus and harmonic clarity are quite pleasing. I'm going to be hearing these in my colleague's system this evening and Sunday- he has a D1 Dual also, and the reclockers, including the one he's loaning out for evaluations.

The reclocker is basically the time buffer of the DAC plus digital input and output circuitry- can be used with any DAC system.

I'm looking forward to hearing the TotalDAC in my friends system, but more importantly, when I get home... and have stereo (getting fairly close- very near having both top modules finished). I expect to have things running by late on the 14th. :W (famous last words...)

[gbegland]

Sehr gut mein Freund!

[JonMarsh]

Sehr gut mein Freund!

Nicht war, ist ausgezeichnet!



Well, the listening session was an eye opener, especially the results swapping in and out some various pieces! A bit scary, but on the other hand I have a pretty clear roadmap, and the first step on it. It's going to sound like science fiction, or just plain fiction, but for those willing to read the tale, it may be interesting.

My friend's system is a bit more complex than anyone else's I know of, for just a two channel setup with subwoofer, and has come a long way sonically in the last two years, though it's still using the same speakers. It pretty much all comes down to tweaking the source quality and digital processing stream.

Still in the system is a Brainstorm DCD 8 I'd previously recommended, which for now we agree should probably stay- it re-clocks the output of his music server, using an external 10MHz reference rubidium oscillator- the external oscillator made a significant difference in the instrument reproduction through the DCD-8. The only real disadvantage of the DCD-8 is that the way it handles AES/EBU it can only support double rate in some key configurations (96kHz max). That's one reason I'm not using one now, myself. Still may have to revisit that.

Since last fall, we've been looking around at a variety of digital solutions, and with his connections in Europe he's gotten in quite a few to evaluate, the EMM Labs DACC2x and MSB Signature being at the top of the list along with the TotalDAC D1. The totalDAC won that shoot out, but that was just the start. He has two customized TotalDAC which are running as paralleled channels in mono, so he has a dual mono setup; also, because of our experience with Paul Hines shunt regulators, he talked Vincent into trying a shunt circuit on the digital regulation, which proved to measure better than Vincent expected as well as taking the sound quality a step further.

Now, a big key to the TotalDAC sonics is the input buffer, a FIFO buffer which stores 10 msec of audio and de-jitters it. Someone else talked Vincent into configuring a re-clocker, which is essentially a TotalDAC without the actual DAC, but still retaining the 69 bit digital volume control and multiple inputs, but with only a digital output- no discrete R2/R ladder DAC. Basically, it's an input selector and jitter filter, with the same input jitter characteristics of the TotalDAC D1. Now, he's shown how it can work by feeding a noisy signal with jitter into an AD1855 DAC stage, and then running it first through the re-clocker and comparing. You might not think there would be benefit to running the re-clocker into a TotalDAC D1, but as other customers have testified in France, there very much is, even when running with a high end music server such as the Aurender S10. In fact, the guy with the Aurender S-10 is using two re-clockers in series now, becuase of the further improvement. This is a bit analogous to what my friend is doing with a DCD-8 after the server, followed by the TotalDAC re-clocker. Two stages

What's really annoying (to me) is the difference in many cuts of music just pulling the Re-clocker out of the path, between the DCD-8 and the TotalDAC D1. Without it, the sound is very good. With it, it's to clearly more palpable and dynamic. Example cuts where this was VERY obvious to yours truly would be stuff like "High Life" from Jazz at the Pawnshop, "The Peppery Man" by Natalie Merchant, "Aras" by Curandero, "Corner Pocket", "Traces", or "Silk Stockings" from the King James version, "Chorale Number 1 "Sleepers Awake" Jacque Loussier trio live (44.1K), or "The Right Thing to Do" (Carly Simon 96K). I mean, without the re-clocker, it sounds very good. With it, there's a signficant improvement in what I can only call definition and palpability. Weird.

While I suspected from published data and anecdotal evidence that I will want the re-clocker, now I know it's a necessary further step. I was skeptical of the degree of impact, and of course I'd suggest anyone going down this kind of path audition before they buy. This doesn't mean you can't have good sound without the re-clocker- but I'm convinced you'll have better sound with it.

It's pretty nutso, EXCEPT that it's still much less expensive than a Scarlatti stack. Still, it is in the BSC kind of turf...

[gbegland]

This could be like the voltage regulation for jitter huh? Multiple stages, each one getting a little finer, a little closer to theoretical perfection. I think my little Entech DAC advertised 5 stage voltage regulation.

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, that's a good analogy, Greg- but here we're looking at time base purity and filtering out jitter- even Vincent was a bit surprised at the impact of the shunt regulator on the digital section, but it's just all about reducing signal impact on potential jitter, and if you're not willing to pile on tons of bypass capacitance, then a really good wideband shunt regulator is the next best thing. With any modulation of a digital supply that handles the digital signal, you'll get variation of digital gate threshold voltage which is signal correlated, producing signal correlated jitter by changing the timing slightly. It should be subtle, but apparently it was not only measurable, but audible in the end result.

Well, I've got until the end of 2013 to get a re-clocker at the "combo" price, so that has to go into my planning. :W

[JonMarsh]

Will he or won't he?

well, it's down to the wire time...

Just got back from my trip to Germany and Austria on business late this Saturday night- geez, when I landed in SFO, I could tell why I was tired- it was 6 AM Sunday morning in Munich, where I'd gotten up at 6 AM Saturday morning to leave for the airport!

I've got a plan for how to try to get the stereo pair up and running before Saturday, but having a plan and pulling it off with the other things going on may be two different things- some stuff has come up at work that's kind of urgent in a strategic, not tactical sense, but still requires my input. We'll see.

And I think I need to piece together a music server, too, haven't had anything running for that in a while, and there's so much other stuff on my three MBP's I don't want to use them- have to see if I can get a Fusion drive Mac Mini setup quickly or not.

So, place your wagers, and watch the tale unfold! Film at 11. Uh, maybe make that 4... or tomorrow- I have a date tonight!

[JonMarsh]

One finished cabinet set (bass module and upper module) is completely assembled, and the second top module is assembled. Dang, for as small as they are, those top modules are heavy! The bass modules aren't light, but the neo motor means the weight doesn't go up THAT much when the woofers are installed- imagine if they were built like these?



The second bass module will be in assembly this evening. And I wrangled time off from my boss for Thursday and Friday...

[dar47]

Woo Hoo Stereo Pair :P

You must be really excited! If I were you I would just take the Scan Ardents to the DIY meet (if possible), save your back and you won't have the possibility of scuffing your new babies.

[JonMarsh]

A sensible suggestion, but at this point those are disassembled waiting for the next evolution in the design- just have to try to go for the gold!

This type of finish is pretty easy to clean up and redo if necessary, and the bamboo itself is VERY hard, much more so than maple veneer over MDF.

OK, it's 6:30 AM, coffee is done, time to go back to work!

[JonW]

Thursday and Friday off work and time to build speakers? Sounds great to me. Looking forward to the photos.

[JonMarsh]

Yeah....

We're on a mission from God, have a hot soldering iron and glue gun, a full tank of gas, and it's a hundred miles to Davis (if I go the long way around on I-5). :W

Cop motor, cop tires, and cop suspension... what could go wrong?



(The Delorean is in the shop for service... new CA SMOG rules for fusion reactors...)

[---k---]

Too funny. Good luck.

I love reading about your experiences with magic boxes that improve sound. I would love to experience that some day as I still have some doubts.

[JonMarsh]

Not a work of art...

But should get the job done for the mid to treble on second speaker....



I'm leaning towards the idea that when I'm finished with crossover development and tweaking, I do a complete fresh build, probably with PCB's and doing my best to optimize the layout and construction. No time for that at this stage. These are almost junk box crossovers, given about half the parts were things I had on hand. I think this is possibly worthwhile at least for the mid and treble crossovers. I mean, I've got all these pretty crossovers by Troels that you guys are building- makes me feel like I'm from the wrong side of the tracks! :W

[Jonasz]

Not a work of art...

But should get the job done for the mid to treble on second speaker....



I'm leaning towards the idea that when I'm finished with crossover development and tweaking, I do a complete fresh build, probably with PCB's and doing my best to optimize the layout and construction. No time for that at this stage. These are almost junk box crossovers, given about half the parts were things I had on hand. I think this is possibly worthwhile at least for the mid and treble crossovers. I mean, I've got all these pretty crossovers by Troels that you guys are building- makes me feel like I'm from the wrong side of the tracks! :W

Well, I would be happy with a crossover looking like that! :B

After all, it goes INSIDE the box, right? :T