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Thanks Jon, I'll have to keep that in mind for one of my future projects!
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- Danny -
It's getting quite cramped in here...
- DannyComment
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I am very pleased with how they turned out, they are extremely smooth! I'm looking forward to setting them next to the Ardents to see how close they match - looks pretty good from a distance though! Assembly began last night. I'll completely finish one sub before working on the other due to space constraints. Steps are below:
1. Cut and install remaining foam inside the cabinet
2. Drill screw holes for amp installation, and (probably) widen existing screw holes for sub/PR installation by a hair. We'll just be using wood screws all around.
3. Make and install series wire on subwoofer.
4. Make and install binding posts and connection wire inside the subwoofer cabinet (and drill out these holes on subwoofer #2)
5. Lay down box, install subwoofer.
6. Stand cabinet up, lift onto mobile cart (cabinet will remain on rolling cart until such time baseplates are made, approximate weight once complete = 200 lbs).
7. Install remaining PRs
8. Connect to DATS to get an impedance reading - adjust PR weights as necessary to approach 20Hz tune
9. Install amplifier
10. Connect laptop to subwoofer, set up and upload initial DSP file
11. Connect to stereo
12. Set up subwoofer crossover on stereo
13. Hopefully make noise! (and adjust volume via DSP to get it 'close', then final adjustments on stereo.
For anyone wondering what a fair price is for covering a large box in epoxy, sanding, and painting with a satin finish - these were $900 apiece. I personally feel like that's a bargain as I hate painting but love the results. Total cost of this project for the pair approaches $5,000 but could be done much more affordably if you purchased a pro amp or Dayton plate amps for power and finished them yourself. The extreme construction probably isn't super necessary either, so you could probably save on materials.
I'm sure guys from AVSForum would say this is a silly project, a pro amp and a pair of 18"-24" subs from Harbottle or Stereo Integrity would smoke these for potentially less money. I guess my response would be super deep notes at super loud levels aren't really my goal here, musicality (and low distortion) is key, and these need to look good considering they won't be hidden (unlike a lot of subs used in serious home theaters on AVS).
Other folks may comment that for the price, a pair of (insert your favorite sub brand) 12"-15" subs probably would have been better value, plus they'd have a warranty. They might be right (I mean, I certainly have no experience with commercial subs either) but where's the fun in that?
I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes we do DIY because it's fun, unique, and fills specific goal, and not just because it can bring the best value.- DannyComment
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You ended with the key point I would have brought up if you had not said it yourself! This is a custom build, DIY, and looks as good or better as a mass produced commercial option. I would have chosen the path you took any day over buying a commercial sub build. You designed and built something that matches your requirements instead of having to find an option that meets 90% of what you need and then change your setup around to work with it.
Looking forward to more photos as these cabinets get assembled!Painter in trainingComment
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I made some progress last night, got to Step 8 and stopped for the evening as I didn't have the manual for the Hypex amp handy. Tuning appears to be about right based on the impedance graph - I installed all but two disks in all PRs so Unibox appears pretty much dead on. I can always remove another disk if actual measurements dictate so. It also looks like this isn't really an 4 ohm part when with voice coils in series, it's closer to 5.5 - 6 in it's usable range. A few photos below.
Test fitting the amplifier.
Drilling out screw holes for the amplifier. As an aside, I really like the Big Gator Tools drill guides. Very handy when you want to be sure you are drilling straight (something I just cannot do by hand).
Series wire installed.
Sub and PRs installed. It looks bigger now. Definitely feels bigger too - hoisting this thing onto the cart with the sub installed was a literal pain. I need to get back to the gym!
Impedance.
- DannyComment
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I've also been thinking about how to safely move these things (and the Ardents...plus whatever else I make) when it comes time for a new home in the next few years. I'm kind of thinking about strapping them to quarter-sized pallets and using a mini pallet jack to get them around. Then use a truck with a lift gate. Any other bright ideas?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FRM8S2M/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
- DannyComment
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I believe you would find this a most welcome addition to your portfolio of tools...
this, of course, is another "pleasure" of the DIY process, the acquisition of more tools than any "normal" person would ever consider or justify... -
Of course, the real problem is where to put this thing when I'm done with it! I think I'll wait til moving time to see if there isn't some kind of moving service that specializes in extra care for certain items.
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Sven commented on this, and OBVIOUSLY, I must concur with violent agreement, as a former Sith master of mine would say at times (sometimes even for things I proposed!)
That weight of loaded cabinets can become a serious issue without Yoda's force lift- it is one thing to do things on a screen, but moving them around one's HQ can be quite a different matter!
Ages ago I proposed a force cancelling subwoofer with dual Peerless STW-350F woofers, but just what one driver weighs is something to ponder. I have been thinking about doing that with my NIB Hypex DS 8.0- the actual measured impedance of the woofers is nearly double the spec sheet, and they're both identical. Also verified with LCR meter, besides the DATS tool. It should be feasible, though it would not reach the true potential of the drivers.
Even I am having trouble imagining moving it once built! It would likely be best to load the drivers in the room it will be used in.
DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy IndustriesComment
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Those Peerless woofers may indeed be 'peerless' outside of niche car audio-specific brands - they approach 50% more weight than my (already weighty) CSS SDX12! This does remind me though, there is a company here in Las Vegas that makes subwoofers called Fi Audio. Perhaps understandably considering they are made in the US in small quantities, they tend to be on the pricey side. I wouldn't use them for home audio purely because of the logo on the cone (unless it were to be hidden in some fashion) but I really appreciate they show displacement of the driver in the specs.
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Sub Number 2 is mostly assembled and an impedance sweep run. I almost didn't do it but figured I should check. Graph is almost identical to Sub Number 1, so I take that as a very good sign things are the way they're supposed to be.
As an aside, I've been playing music through subwoofer 1 pretty much every waking hour since I got it working. It's now placed in the corner I'm planning on using permanently. I haven't played any movies through it yet, but will do so once the second subwoofer is placed in the opposite corner. For music it sounds pretty good! I have the amplifier gain set to zero currently and it's pretty close by ear. Won't run any sweeps until the second subwoofer is placed, then I'll adjust accordingly via DSP on the Hypex amps.- DannyComment
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Trust, but verify EVERYTHING!the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....Comment
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Exactly! Everything is set up now, just a quick upload to the amp and everything is running smoothly. Will play around with them for a week or two to let them break in a hair before measuring them and adjusting the DSP settings. Oddly enough, there is also an equalizer on the amps (in addition to the filter design) so I could opt to just use that as well.
As far as color matching goes, it's close enough that you probably wouldn't notice the difference if giving only a passing glance. The white on the subs is a bit 'cooler' (almost slightly gray?) than the warm tones on the Ardents. Unsure if a bamboo base will look weird with it now....that's a LOT of white to overcome, given their size.- DannyComment
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Splendid job on this build!!! I hope you get many good years of use out them too.Exactly! Everything is set up now, just a quick upload to the amp and everything is running smoothly. Will play around with them for a week or two to let them break in a hair before measuring them and adjusting the DSP settings. Oddly enough, there is also an equalizer on the amps (in addition to the filter design) so I could opt to just use that as well.
As far as color matching goes, it's close enough that you probably wouldn't notice the difference if giving only a passing glance. The white on the subs is a bit 'cooler' (almost slightly gray?) than the warm tones on the Ardents. Unsure if a bamboo base will look weird with it now....that's a LOT of white to overcome, given their size.
I had to post a photo of one of the FI subs. They are beastly looking things!!!! I think investing in a fork lift sounds reasonable to have a sub enclosure with a monster like that sub.
Painter in trainingComment
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Yeah, and that's their neo version - I can only imagine the ferrite one. I may have to see how the Neo 18" 4.11 stacks up against others. It's about a grand though, so it'd need to be 2-3x better than a Dayton sub!- DannyComment
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This weekend I'm hoping to dig out some microphones and measure the system, at least with Omnimic if nothing else. I'm unsure if I have the hardware to power my other microphone anymore. It sounds pretty darn good to my ear, but we all know how fallible that is. Everything is VERY clean though which I pointed out to my wife when I had music moderately loud - she noted it being loud, but I responded we were still able to hear each other at normal speaking voices.
Anyway, all I did was set up a low pass on each sub at 1,000Hz, then set my NAD M12 to have a 120Hz crossover on both the speakers and subs. I didn't trim anything, all individual volumes are at zero (including the plate amps). I would have thought I'd need to tweak it more by ear, but I have been very happy with the results thus far.
I have to say I'm slightly disappointed though, I have been unable to get my clothes to vibrate in my small room! I think the subwoofers can do it - it's like right on the verge I suspect - it's more that I'm afraid to push the Ardents any louder! That said, I have also not tried any movies yet, meaning I probably haven't reached into the 20Hz range yet. I will remedy that shortly...- DannyComment
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No diagram but it was quite simple - the M12 has two line-level subwoofer outputs on it! You can't seem to adjust them individually unfortunately (at least not through this processor) but that has been fixed on newer versions (I think). NAD has now added limited Dirac capability to several of their stereo units specifically for subwoofer control. The only thing better would be having XLR outputs, but that's just being greedy.
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Making a gif is way harder than I thought it'd be. Any ideas what the file size limitations are theSven? Maybe 10MB?
I think the second to last bass hit is about 20Hz, with 30 fps it's not too clean. The last bass hit is around 10 Hz. This is the opening scene from Edge of Tomorrow, about 20-30 seconds into starting the movie. Has to be the DTS-HD track - they applied a high pass filter at 30Hz on the Dolby Atmos track accompanying the 4K version of the movie.
Last edited by technodanvan; 21 May 2023, 17:00 Sunday.- DannyComment
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