Anthologys vs. ER18MTM

[cmv260]

Hey Folks,

New here, but I've been drinking in all the (too much?) information that I can handle. What a resource, and what a community!

In the process of researching and planning my latest DIY build, though first foray into speakers. For reference I'm comfortable with the woodwork involved and have executed many a satisfying DIY project on the electronics side in the past.

Here goes: I'm hoping to build a set of speakers used all but exclusively for music - source of vinyl and Digital files via DAC powered through some older japanese amps that ive modified (Sansui Au555, 666, and 5900, Technics, Pioneer and a couple others (though rarely used) as well as a Maggie 5302 redux that is a beauty. My current space is relatively small, and we tend to listen at quieter volumes, we love dynamics, detail and realism. My better half is on board with this one, so *phew* there - but the speakers will have to live within 12-18 inches of the back wall with few exceptions. Genre wise, we are all over the place, but id say rock, jazz, and some soul take 80 percent of the listening.

Finally, I'd like to stay around $800 budget on components with the rest being put into cabinet build - that being said, I'm thinking of this as "the last speakers I'll need" in a sense, so if it means taking that spend up I'm ready, willing, and reasonably able. All-in ceiling of $2K let's say.

My initial reading has me attracted to Jim's builds - namely the Mini Statements, though it seems the Anthology's are worth the extra effort. Meanwhile, it seems that the ER18MTM design would be well suited to my current and likely future room specs. I havent been able to find much comparative information pinning those two against each other, which may be rooted in the fact that they are on a different enough budget scale. In my mind, they are the top contenders- and I wonder if a little more spend could be pumped into the ER18MTM build with one of SEAS more pricey drivers - pump another 300-400 into those while keeping the spec in line. I did read that they opted for the more affordable drivers, but I am not familiar enough to know whether compatibility stands.

Lastly, I get the sense that these designs are "dialed in" - tried and true that have "proven" their design - some others seem to have a bit of hemming and hawing around driver placement, x-over design and other variables that I'm not entirely comfortable to dive into at the moment.


Your feedback will mean the world to me and should help me get this build on the road!

[5th element]

The Anthology's are a step above the ER18MTM however you look at it...

8" vs 6" in the bass. Mainly because the RS225 will go deeper and will have lower distortion whilst doing it.

The 5" used for midrange in the Anthology's is definitely a step up for midrange duty than the ER18. Smaller diameter helping provide more even off axis response and the SB Acoustics motor is better than the SEAS giving lower distortion.

I'm not sure what crossover point the ER18MTM uses, hopefully its different for the ribbon and dome variants, but regardless of that the ribbon cannot go down far enough for an optimum cross to a 6" driver, let alone a 6" in an MTM.

The biggest thing staring me in the face is the choice of the Anthology's as they seem at odds with your requirements. Heck even the ER18MTM do. A good rule of thumb, usually, is don't go MTM unless you need the ability for the speaker to go louder than a TM. Apart from the increased cost they need a bigger cabinet, make the speakers harder to drive and make the tweeter harder to integrate properly.

In my eyes you'd be much better off going with something like the Travellers.

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/speaker-project-gallery/1428596-the-travelers-new-year-new-design

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/the-travelers-loudspeaker-kit/

Personally I'd have done the design with a different tweeter, I don't really see the OW2 adding anything except additional cost vs another tweeter, but they aren't bad tweeters. I don't like the sound of 3/4" domes as they splash more high frequency energy out to the room than 1" domes, ring radiators or wave guide designs. This is personal preference mind you but I'd have definitely gone with the 22TAF/TFF, if they wanted to keep the 3/4" size, or just the standard RS28F etc.

Nevertheless the SB15CAC is a gem of a driver. Super low distortion and the rigid metal cone will really provide you with a super detailed sound having no resonances throughout its passband, vs what soft cones typically present with.

You can easily extend the cabinet down, vs the large stand mount of the original, if you want these floor standing, although you may have to lower the port tuning. This is no bad thing you'll just get deeper bass and the RS225 can optimise into big cabinets so that's not a problem.

SEAS drivers, these days, are typically over priced and under performing vs the competition.

[cmv260]

Thank you 5thElement - this is EXACTLY the sort of feedback I needed. The traveler's it'll be - I hadnt seen the design yet but that'll do it. I'll need to begin working on that extended cabinet design, I'll check in with Jim to see if he's got a design he recommends there.

re: your comments on tweeter's are great. Would you recommend a 1" option here that you'd prefer - I'd assume in that case the x-over design would vary, unless there's a plug and play option on work with.

Can't thank you enough, this is going to be a home run.

[5th element]

I suppose my favourite 'naked' tweeter, as in a dome not in a waveguide, would be the XT25. Due to its wide diameter radiating area it has poorer dispersion than any other 1" dome. This throws out less high frequency energy to the side walls and improves imaging, pin point localisation and just makes things sound clearer/cleaner. Of course this is only in my opinion and how I prefer the sound to be. Of course the way this sounds depends on your room and how lively it is. In my room the XT25 wins but in another one maybe a 19mm dome would be the preference. Of course the disadvantage of the naked domes is that you lose the sparkle if you move too far off axis, the bigger the dome the sooner the sparkle goes away.

Moving away from naked domes, and introducing waveguides, my first preference would be for the DXT from SEAS. Mainly because there are so few small waveguide loaded tweeters and I've used the DXT. I think SB Acoustics has a 104mm diameter waveguide tweeter, as does Wavecor and even Dayton Audio has a really cheap one. In fact, having done a bit of searching, the Dayton looks like a total winner. Cheap, smooth response and low distortion. On paper it's my new favourite, inexpensive, off the shelf dome tweeter in a 104mm package :P A waveguide though, just like a bigger dome, sprays less high frequency energy out to the side walls, but, unlike the larger dome, the off axis response, over your typical range of listening positions and range of off axis angles, remains extremely consistent. In other words you don't lose the sparkle.

The reason why the OW2 tweeter doesn't make sense to me is because it is sort of out of balance with the cost of the rest of the drivers. Not that cost is really an indicator of performance but just in general terms of overall affordability. Both the RS225 and the SB15CAC represent some of the highest performance you can get from drive units without spending large amounts of money. There are lots of other tweeters out there that fall into the same category but the OW2 is not one of them. With a different tweeter you could shave $150-200 off the price and end up with, either, identical or superior measured performance. It's kind of a surprise that Jim and Curt didn't offer a version with the SEAS 22TFF, or something, for those with less deep pockets. The OW2 is one of those tweeters that lots of people says sounds great but doesn't really back up why in its measured performance. Of course it doesn't suck it's just nothing particularly special, except for the price and for the wrong reasons, it's expensive and not cheap :B

You are right, though, changing the tweeter in the Travellers would require a crossover rework. Changing to another naked dome might not be too difficult but it would require some clever thinking. Theoretically you could reverse engineer the crossover against a traced impedance response from the OW2 datasheet. Determine what the electrical transfer function is and then apply the crossover to a diffraction modified, traced, version of the OW2s frequency response. You'd then have a very good estimate as to what the tweeters acoustic frequency response, in the Travellers, looks like. You'd then need a diffraction modified, traced, version of the new tweeters frequency response, plus traced impedance. Then you'd simulate the new tweeter and design the crossover so the acoustic frequency response of the new one matches that of the old one. Technically it's not that difficult to do (it's very similar, in principle, to how people design speakers without measurement gear, but doing it the proper way and there are guides online of how to do it) it's just a big headache if you're not used to the process.

I'm looking at this from the perspective of saving money, and using a tweeter that would fit my personal preferences better than the OW2, but that's probably the wrong way to look at it. It's probably more accurate to view this as just build the Travellers. They are a great design, as standard, and will sound wonderful. Then you've got an area you could experiment with in the future, try different tweeters, if desired, and have a go at redesigning the tweeter crossover. Although if you really like the way they sound then there's no good reason to. Really I'm just nitpicking an otherwise excellent design. But, you know, nitpicking is what we do best around here a lot of the time :B

[RookieBuilder]

A comment on the Travelers (or Anthologies, for that matter probably anything with an open design) you noted in your first post distance to the back wall would be limited to 12-18". My experience with Jim/Curts Statement II's is that the recommendation for 18" from the wall should really read as a requirement. Of course you can go closer, but it really does have a negative impact on the sound when they are pushed in, I got acceptable results in the 18" range and great results past 24".

My opinion is when you know the room limitation to look at options that are less picky about placement.

[Jim Holtz]

The Anthology's are a step above the ER18MTM however you look at it...

8" vs 6" in the bass. Mainly because the RS225 will go deeper and will have lower distortion whilst doing it.

The 5" used for midrange in the Anthology's is definitely a step up for midrange duty than the ER18. Smaller diameter helping provide more even off axis response and the SB Acoustics motor is better than the SEAS giving lower distortion.

I'm not sure what crossover point the ER18MTM uses, hopefully its different for the ribbon and dome variants, but regardless of that the ribbon cannot go down far enough for an optimum cross to a 6" driver, let alone a 6" in an MTM.

The biggest thing staring me in the face is the choice of the Anthology's as they seem at odds with your requirements. Heck even the ER18MTM do. A good rule of thumb, usually, is don't go MTM unless you need the ability for the speaker to go louder than a TM. Apart from the increased cost they need a bigger cabinet, make the speakers harder to drive and make the tweeter harder to integrate properly.

In my eyes you'd be much better off going with something like the Travellers.

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/speaker-project-gallery/1428596-the-travelers-new-year-new-design

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/the-travelers-loudspeaker-kit/

Personally I'd have done the design with a different tweeter, I don't really see the OW2 adding anything except additional cost vs another tweeter, but they aren't bad tweeters. I don't like the sound of 3/4" domes as they splash more high frequency energy out to the room than 1" domes, ring radiators or wave guide designs. This is personal preference mind you but I'd have definitely gone with the 22TAF/TFF, if they wanted to keep the 3/4" size, or just the standard RS28F etc.

Nevertheless the SB15CAC is a gem of a driver. Super low distortion and the rigid metal cone will really provide you with a super detailed sound having no resonances throughout its passband, vs what soft cones typically present with.

You can easily extend the cabinet down, vs the large stand mount of the original, if you want these floor standing, although you may have to lower the port tuning. This is no bad thing you'll just get deeper bass and the RS225 can optimise into big cabinets so that's not a problem.

SEAS drivers, these days, are typically over priced and under performing vs the competition.

Hi Matt,

Thank you for the excellent comments regarding the Travelers I consider them a best kept secret in the various speakers Curt and I have collaborated on. I'm a big fan of the SB15CAC drivers and the RS225's are a well proven bargain bass unit that competes with the best. The travelers rotate with the Bordeaux in my main listening area and will accompany me (the name Travelers was for a reason) on a couple month get away this winter.

Here's a discussion of them by several noted designers; http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...o-s-heard-them

Tweeters are a very subjective subject depending on what you like in a sound stage and off axis dispersion. I base my reference on live acoustic performances and the sound stage they present. Hence the open back mids and my favor for 3/4" domes, ribbons and AMT tweeters. All have exceptional off axis performance with varying degrees of detail etc. Personally, I don't find any Dayton domes, planars, AMT's acceptable to my ears currently. I really liked the RS28F until they went NLA. The RST28's are not in the same league IMHO.

Starting in 2003, I used a lot of Hiquphon tweeters in various designs and along the way became friends with Dave Ellis, the US Hiquphon distributor and an avid speaker designer. Dave and I bumped into each other at Iowa DIY in 2018 and had a lot of fun catching up which means a lot of speaker talk. After our conversation, I decided the Travelers deserved a better tweeter than the many below $50 ones then available and made the decision to use OW2's in the Travelers. Curt is also a Hiquphon fan so it didn't take to much arm twisting. :-) If I hadn't used the OW2, I'd probably have chosen a SB Acoustics SB26CDC-C000-4 Alum-Ceram Dome Tweeter which is super low in distortion and sounds great all at a reasonable price. I have heard it several times in various designs at Grand Rapids DIY and was always impressed with it's smooth, detailed and extended sound quality.

So not to get too far off topic, if extremely high SPL's are not a design goal, the Travelers will put a smile on your face. They are extremely musical speakers in IMHO. The cabinets are sized to allow a F/3 of 32 Hz with the single RS225. I'd suggest keeping that internal volume and simply extend the cabinet to the floor standing height you want but partition off the main speaker portion as designed. The open bottom of the cabinet makes a great place for the crossover.

HTH

Jim

[cmv260]

Thank you both for your thorough and thoughtful replies - I'm certainly out of my depth with the finer technical exchanges, but I will apply my skill set to the build. Thanks to the good folks across the board Meniscus got me my kit yesterday - the remaining parts have arrived and I executed my cut list on the MDF yesterday. Soon, I'll invoke the speaker gods in a brief opening ceremony before I begin. I'll be sure to document and share as I progress.

As I plan the build I have run into one conundrum: The PVC for the midrange is meant to be sandwiched in from the back of the front baffle through to the rear baffle - essentially isolating that compartment. How then, does one wire that driver in? SHould I plan to sneak in the wires before the PVC is set or am I missing something here ? I see this is not an uncommon build characteristic, but I did some searching and wasnt able to find photos to alleviate my doubt nor a post that would address it specificially?

[Jim Holtz]

Thank you both for your thorough and thoughtful replies - I'm certainly out of my depth with the finer technical exchanges, but I will apply my skill set to the build. Thanks to the good folks across the board Meniscus got me my kit yesterday - the remaining parts have arrived and I executed my cut list on the MDF yesterday. Soon, I'll invoke the speaker gods in a brief opening ceremony before I begin. I'll be sure to document and share as I progress.

As I plan the build I have run into one conundrum: The PVC for the midrange is meant to be sandwiched in from the back of the front baffle through to the rear baffle - essentially isolating that compartment. How then, does one wire that driver in? SHould I plan to sneak in the wires before the PVC is set or am I missing something here ? I see this is not an uncommon build characteristic, but I did some searching and wasnt able to find photos to alleviate my doubt nor a post that would address it specificially?

Excellent question. Here's how I did it on all of our designs with PVC mid tunnels. I use 12 - 14 gauge internal wiring which fits very well through an 1/8" hole. I've found that drilling a couple 1/8" holes in the middle of tunnel and position the holes on the bottom of the tunnel works really well. I usually put a small drop of glue on the wire where it passes through seals the hole and keeps the wire in place. Don't short yourself on wire so you have excess and can easily attach the wiring to the driver.

HTH

Jim

[cmv260]

Good morning - I apologize I've been AWOL for a bit as I navigate the holiday season and get these enclosures sorted. I just wrapped up last night and just wired them up for a little to get a taste. Thrilled already to say the least.

I was a bit delayed on some resistors - but alls well that ends well! I did have a couple of questions to finish up the party:

1. The foam to line the midrange tunnel was prescribed to be cut at 9 x 19" or thereabouts, and it kind of curls up since there is more than the circumference you get a little extra credit. Is this the intent, or as I would have guessed, but one clean layer to line the inside? (see images)

2. The foam plugs are 3x discs, which I've just sort of press-fitted in there, I was unclear if these were integral to the design or more of an optional tuning tool? I didn't A/B too much last night, it was late and I was happy, but I did sense that it would effectively change some of the perceived attach on some notes. Though that's a very coarse opinion to say the least

3. Finally, the flared rear port, provided by Meniscus measures closer to 2.25" at the back end (non-flare side) - and the length provided is closer to 9 inches ( I believe 8.75 or so) - Jim, your specs call for 2.5" @ 7.75 inches in length, I wasn't sure if this length was corrected for diameter, or if the diameter is insignificant since there is some tapering due to flare, in which case I'll trim per the specs.


The speakers were finished with a beautiful Mozambique veneer from the good folks at VeneerSupplies.com and finished with liberon Finishing oil and some 3M white pads for more of a satin finish. Still doing some finishing touches.

[Jim Holtz]

Good morning - I apologize I've been AWOL for a bit as I navigate the holiday season and get these enclosures sorted. I just wrapped up last night and just wired them up for a little to get a taste. Thrilled already to say the least.

I was a bit delayed on some resistors - but alls well that ends well! I did have a couple of questions to finish up the party:

1. The foam to line the midrange tunnel was prescribed to be cut at 9 x 19" or thereabouts, and it kind of curls up since there is more than the circumference you get a little extra credit. Is this the intent, or as I would have guessed, but one clean layer to line the inside? (see images)

2. The foam plugs are 3x discs, which I've just sort of press-fitted in there, I was unclear if these were integral to the design or more of an optional tuning tool? I didn't A/B too much last night, it was late and I was happy, but I did sense that it would effectively change some of the perceived attach on some notes. Though that's a very coarse opinion to say the least

3. Finally, the flared rear port, provided by Meniscus measures closer to 2.25" at the back end (non-flare side) - and the length provided is closer to 9 inches ( I believe 8.75 or so) - Jim, your specs call for 2.5" @ 7.75 inches in length, I wasn't sure if this length was corrected for diameter, or if the diameter is insignificant since there is some tapering due to flare, in which case I'll trim per the specs.


The speakers were finished with a beautiful Mozambique veneer from the good folks at VeneerSupplies.com and finished with liberon Finishing oil and some 3M white pads for more of a satin finish. Still doing some finishing touches.



[ATTACH=CONFIG]30954[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]30955[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]30956[/ATTACH]

I'll try to answer your questions;

1. The foam should line the tunnel (trim to fit) with the driver side of the foam tapered at a 45 degree angle to smooth the transition and extending from about an inch behind the rear of the driver magnet. I'm guessing that the 9" width of the foam will allow for the 3" foam plug at the back to flush fit the foam. That will allow you to adjust for differences in rooms.

2. See number one. Adjust for room and taste.

3. I used Precision ports but Meniscus may have a different brand they're using which will provide the same results. I'd check with Meniscus for feed back on any differences in length.

The cabinets look spectacular! I'm looking forward to your feedback on sound quality.

HTH

Jim

[Mikerodrig27]

Nice progress! I have read very good things about these speakers. I am pushing my dad to purchase the kit (I would build them for him) so I can hear them. I like the Ceramic aluminum clad mid on them. Thanks for sharing!

[5th element]

They look awesome! Congratulations.

[cmv260]

Thank you all for the kind words! I feel flattered on this first build!

Thank you for the help Jim - the Meniscus ports are calculated to be installed as sent, no trimming necessary. I went ahead and have been playing with the foam plugs a bit - and beveled the lining piece to give that smooth transition.

As far as sound impressions go - we hooked it up to a Sansui Au-555A and a DAC here and went ahead and let it play for about 25 hours before really getting critical with listening. I'd say the "break in" was most apparent in the first 2-5 hours of play time. I liberally placed them in a large room - drywall, polished concrete floors and ceiling, and one side of double pane windows. The soundstage was impressive, and they really rocked the room beautifully, which I wasnt sure to expect given the "bookshelf" nature of the design. I gave them a workout with some of my favorites I have on lossless formats - there's a million tracks to mention - but some tracks that revealed some fresh detail for me on this little demo were - Terrence Blanchard's "Ashé" - Daft Punk's "Something about us" as well as various jazz tracks. One aspect i loved, was low fatigue, and relatively high SPL without feeling loud. Nina Simone sounded like she was in the room and the high's were pleasant - those vocals can sometimes come off a bit shrill to my ear, but not here. The tweeters definitely shine, and the bass is very precise, but truth be told they are just knockout speakers.

The amp was definitely struggling with the bass on the Daft Punk and some other tracks generous in the lows - but otherwise they are singing. I may take that Sansui under the knife and do some mods and re-capping since I can't recall when I last dug into it.

If y'all thing its helpful, I am happy to share some more photos from the process and build - as you know I ended up building the design into a 46" total enclosure which is giving me the floorstander vibes.

[Mikerodrig27]

It is definitely helpful. Please show us as many pics as you are willing to. I think I am going to build these for my spare room.

I reacapped a Adcom GFP-565 and did some suggested mods to it. It definitely made a big difference. These (bordeaux, Statements, Travelers etc) speakers respond well to amp, preamp and source upgrades. I am diving into some Firstwatt stuff soon which should be a lot of fun.

I am not sure how your Sansui is. I had a Sansui AU-719 that I tried against some separates that I normally use. It sounded really nice. A good non-fatiguing tone but sounded veiled compared to the separates that I have now. I didn't keep it for long.

If you have the itch to play with separates, DIYaudio has a really nice preamp kit on sale right now designed by Nelson Pass. I believe it is $300 + shipping. Comes with the Chassis and everything.

[cmv260]

Happy to share, unfortunately, I have to admit I had high hopes of documenting this thoroughly but it looks like I ended up not shooting too many photos!

The original idea was to build a killer set of speakers - something that would feel like "the last set" - that would also do well in a smaller space. Design-wise, I wanted some floor standers, since we didn't like the look of bookshelves on stands. Jim smartly suggested the new Traveler's design and recommended just extending the enclosure to the desired size. The final design I measured at 46.5" total height and it just requires one more cut identical to the window-pane brace (that won't get perforated) to finish the upper compartment and then finishing below. I opted in the process, to place the cross overs in the lower cavity as well as the binding posts - and just drilled small holes for driver leads that were then plugged with glue. I ended up having a bunch of leftover pluck and pull-type foam from some Pelican cases so I used that to fill the lower cavity. Essentially I didn't want to create a resonant bottom that would harm the rest of it - I think it worked pretty well and was lighter in weight than Rockwool which was my other option considering I had plenty around. Another option in the future could be to build another windowpane brace into the bottom to create additional rigidity. While I can't say for certain, I think the foam is doing a great job as the bottom is quite a dud when knocked, tapped, and otherwise drummed on.

The kit from Meniscus has literally just about everything you need, and I went ahead and upgraded to Clarity Caps and Mundorf Coppers. The Crossover is a breeze and comes together in a matter of minutes if you're handy with these things.

Lastly, I routed a 3-inch hole in the new bottom so allow me to cram my hand in there to finish the binding posts.

Some notes/recs for those of you who embark on these lovelies:

1. If you go ahead and use the meniscus kit - the flared port is really great fit and quality but the slightly larger diameter will just meet with the 1/2" 7" recess on the rear baffle. One possiblity is to eliminate recess if you dont plan on plugging ever (I wanted the option) - or alternately to a touch shy on that one around 6.5 or 6.75" diameter. I carefully joined them and it looks great/deliberate, but certainly one I learned along the way. The larger meniscus port may require a camfer bit or some standing for a snug fit. Again, nothing tricky, just save you some grief.

2. I originally read the midtunnel brace as 1/2" recess on both from and back supports - but I think it either requires totally perforating through that 3/4 and cramming glue in there, or alternately 1/2" recess on the rear PVC support and totally cut through on the front one. Ultimately didnt feel like it made too much of a difference but I did have to trim off a little over a 1/4 inch from the PVC pipe (which meniscus shipped precisely cut to spec.) I ended up trimming the PVC slightly, and then used JB Weld high temp RTV liquid gasket (We use it for a high temp roaster here) - and let that partially cure for about 30 minutes then pushed in the pvc. IT essentially made a 1/16-1/8" gasket with great purchase throughout. After that cured, I then applied liquid nails all around the exterior for a permanent seal.

3. I ended up doing circular cutouts on the window pane brace. I can't explain why i didnt just route, but i followed the recommendations and it didnt seem like a big deal.

4. FWIW I picked up a Whitside 1/8" downcut spiral flush bit - doesnt have a moving bearing but instead a sort of "bushing" which is just there. I took it to the bench grinder and worked that bushing to just a small slice of the bushing. This allowed me to rout the recesses in the driver openings after we veneered. Worked beautifully and youve just gotta keep it moving so you dont risk burning the material a bit.

Other than that - slow and steady - they're brilliant!

[Mikerodrig27]

Terrific! Thank you for all of the details and for taking the time to write all of that up. The construction looks top notch!

I wonder if you would use the bottom section as an active subwoofer. Maybe that could be a way for people to use these in larger rooms.

I also forgot to thank you for your listening impressions.

I saw some cabinet drawings on Meniscus. Are there any other build plans for these speakers? The Bordeaux had a pretty elaborate PDF as well as a few other documents.

[cmv260]

Mike - I dont recall if there are more detailed drawings, but that PDF has plenty info, just takes a bit of time to dig in. I did notice, just now actually, that it seems that this enclosure is all but identical to the "Finalist" speakers - I'd let Jim chime in on that, BUT - if it is the case, and the woofer is indeed the same, and it doesnt otherwise mess with the voicing, there seems to have been a transmission line build alternative to the Finalists - that could be an excellent way to take advantage of that larger size.

[Mikerodrig27]

That is an interesting observation regarding the cabinet size. I did notice that there is a lot of documentation on the TL finalist. Looks like Paul K played with the design as well.

[Jim Holtz]

Mike - I dont recall if there are more detailed drawings, but that PDF has plenty info, just takes a bit of time to dig in. I did notice, just now actually, that it seems that this enclosure is all but identical to the "Finalist" speakers - I'd let Jim chime in on that, BUT - if it is the case, and the woofer is indeed the same, and it doesnt otherwise mess with the voicing, there seems to have been a transmission line build alternative to the Finalists - that could be an excellent way to take advantage of that larger size.

The drawing for the Travelers is in fact the Finalist cabinet drawing with minor changes for mid and tweeter cutout size. Cabinet size and design is dictated by the bass driver which is the same for both the Finalist and Travelers. Yes, the TL cabinet on Curt's website is also an option for the Travelers with the minor size differences for the mid/tweeter. Voicing will not be affected.

This is actually a pretty simple cabinet build with what I consider high end sound quality. The SB-CAC series drivers really shine in the midrange.

HTH

Jim

[cmv260]

Agreed Jim, the build is simple and comfortable and the performance is so far - amazing. I threw some vinyl on last night for the first time and heard lots of new things I hadn't heard before from familiar records.

[Mikerodrig27]

Hey Jim. Do you think the Travelers will sound good in two corners of a room with the mid tunnels plugged?

[Jim Holtz]

Hey Jim. Do you think the Travelers will sound good in two corners of a room with the mid tunnels plugged?

Hi Mike,

We didn't create a Travelers crossover for closed mids so no I can't recommend that. The Travelers have the same positioning requirements for best sound quality as our other open back mid designs. We recommend an ideal of 18" from the back of the speaker to the wall behind and a minimum of 18" to side walls with no large objects positioned between the speakers that would block the reflected back wave.

Sorry!

Jim

[Mikerodrig27]

Jim, in the cabinet drawing on madisound, one of key notes mentions plugging the mid tunnel. I will make sure to skip milling the rear panel for that feature.

I feeling more confident that I am going to build your Travelers since I have been extremely happy with the Bordeaux. I just finished building a Korg Nutube preamp that I bought off of DIYaudio and it is just mind blowing how clear recordings can be. I highly recommend that amp. It has two inputs, a little tube/chip, is very small and easy to transport. Perfect for my setup. I may build the Pearl Phono amp someday as I am only using one input so far.

The Travelers are going to be used in the corners facing 15* off axis to the seating position. I may make a diffuser to go behind them that will help scatter the sound a bit. I can align it so that it is somewhat parallel to back. I intend to use the Travelers in other spots of the house or in a different room some day so if they don't work perfectly in this situation it isn't the end of the world. It will be worth it to have the design to be able to use elsewhere.


I was looking at the SB Acoustics Bromo (2-way) that uses the same SB driver as the Travelers but I am very happy with the dayton RS woofer and think I would miss that.

Did you ever get a chance to mess around with the SB Acoustics Alum-Ceram Dome Tweeter at all? Looks like a nice driver.

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Mike,

Open back mids work fine as close as 12" from the speaker back to the wall but they simply can't be used in a cubby hole situation. Play with them and see what you come up with.

I've heard both of the Bromo designs and it sounds nice. Not as nice as the Travelers IMHO, but I've never heard a 2-way that has the clean clear mids in comparison to a well designed 3-way with comparable drivers. Thats why Curt and I have concentrated on 3-way designs. Our top priority is the music.

Curt and I have not touched the SB ceramic tweeter nor do we have measurements of it. The Bromo's I heard both used the ceramic tweeter as did Javad's Ceramico design. Its a very nice tweeter but I wouldn't group it with the best, but the best cost several times as much. My opinion of course. That said, I may use the ceramic tweeter in the future if it aligns with the project goals.

HTH

Jim