Statements Build - Bamboo Flooring Skin

[poppapig]

Inspiring build, poppapig. Remember item 1 here:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?40624-Woodworking-advice&p=566035&viewfull=1#post566035

- don't point out your mistakes when showing off your project. I appreciate seeing how the glue/sawdust fill worked, though.

Another question on your absorbers. Did you use the insulation variety UltraTouch or their acoustic panels? The acoustic panels have slightly better absorption coefficients than good old 703 fiberglass panels, but are 3 or 6 pcf, while the insulation batts are 1 pcf. (according to http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm) I don't know enough to determine if the lower density would significantly alter absorbtion, but by their own data, the 6 pcf panels are slightly more effective than the 3 pcf ones. Not enough to be significant according to Bob Gold. You've piqued my curiosity though. Thanks for posting.

Lol impeccable timing, I was JUST reading through the Woodworking sticky today! There is ONE other flaw but I'll never tell!

I just used the standard Lowes insulation grade UltraTouch (R-13). I don't think they carried the UltraTouch+ nor panels. According to specs the UltraTouch+ has a 20% greater density than the standard insulation. The additional 20% would no doubt be mechanically more effective but I suspect my ears wouldn't know. If UltraTouch+ is readily available, then I'd use it. The density ratings don't seem to have consistent relationships to the measured results.. nothing radical anyways.. At the end of the day, I used what was immediately available and it worked really well.

PRODUCT THICKNESS DENSITY MOUNTING 125HZ 250HZ 500HZ 1000HZ 2000HZ 4000HZ NRC
R-13 3.5" (mm) A 0.95 1.30 1.19 1.08 1.02 1.00 1.15

[bostonmurf]

don't point out your mistakes when showing off your project. I appreciate seeing how the glue/sawdust fill worked, though.

Just throwing this out there - how about a thread (if it doesn't already exist) thats just dedicated to unforeseen problems and how to fix them, its kind of handy for people new to woodworking. I've had similar problems and found fixes, it would be a great asset to avoid the scrap and restart scenario.
just thinking out loud....

edit: so now ive read the link i see theres already a woodworking tips thread, maybe we could add some problem solving tips to it?

[BobEllis]

Inspiring build, poppapig. Remember item 1 here:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?40624-Woodworking-advice&p=566035&viewfull=1#post566035

- don't point out your mistakes when showing off your project. I appreciate seeing how the glue/sawdust fill worked, though.

Another question on your absorbers. Did you use the insulation variety UltraTouch or their acoustic panels? The acoustic panels have slightly better absorption coefficients than good old 703 fiberglass panels, but are 3 or 6 pcf, while the insulation batts are 1 pcf. (according to http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm) I don't know enough to determine if the lower density would significantly alter absorbtion, but by their own data, the 6 pcf panels are slightly more effective than the 3 pcf ones. Not enough to be significant according to Bob Gold. You've piqued my curiosity though. Thanks for posting.

[bostonmurf]

thanks poppapig that looks perfect! i was a bit concerned about using regular insulation as i have a 1 year old but the denim insulation looks exactly what id need. its going to be a busy xmas break

[poppapig]

sorry, i missed that when i read it. thats really great info. my room is really reflective as it was never intended as a HT room, looks like i have another project to add to the list what acoustic material/fabric did you use for them?

Hey yeah, no worries. I used UltraTouch denim insulation which I stapled to 1x3 framing. I wrapped the panels in dark burgundy velvet. The denim insulation has excellent absorption characteristics while being completely harmless to skin contact as it's just recycled cotton/denim. It's easy to cut/tear. I like using velvet fabric because it has a rich appearance in my dimly lit room and does not reflect any light from the projector.

[bostonmurf]

sorry, i missed that when i read it. thats really great info. my room is really reflective as it was never intended as a HT room, looks like i have another project to add to the list what acoustic material/fabric did you use for them?

[poppapig]

any news on the Bass traps Kevin? just noticed your wall panels poppapig, nice work! do they give a noticeable difference?

Absolutely. Take a look at my "Room Treatment" notes above!

[bostonmurf]

any news on the Bass traps Kevin? just noticed your wall panels poppapig, nice work! do they give a noticeable difference?

[bostonmurf]

well not that i know much about US sports but since I arrived in Boston the Sox, Patriots, Celtics and Bruins all won titles. i think i should get some kind of payment for obviously bringing them all luck pity it doesn't work on my sorry England soccer team - this world cup was the worst :cry:

[kevinm]

Been a rough year for sure, especially with the recent injuries to Mebane and Unger. Booo.

But nice Statements. Giving me motivation to finish mine!

[poppapig]

sea!!!

haaaaawks!

[poppapig]

Excellent review poppapig! They do take up your life for a good few months or so. Even when your not building them your thinking about them. I'm still tweaking mine to get them perfect plus I hope to move house soon so I'll have to do it again. In the end the statements are way beyond a pair of speakers - there basically comparable to a high end guitar or piano. You have to have it set up to the way you feel comfortable with which takes time and dedication - and over time it just keeps improving.
Feels nice to be in the statement club doesn't it

Thanks man! Yeah, I think the mains took about 80-100hrs and the Center another 20hrs There's a CLUB!? I am sooo IN!

Wow! I really appreciate the exception and very complete review! Of Course, I can't disagree with anything you've said. :rofl:

I'm extremely pleased you're enjoying your Statements as much as I do mine.

Hmmm... Hawks fan? Are you from Iowa?

Jim

HehHe, I still have to talk about the build and THEN the sound!! lol. Epic..
Seahawks (Seattle Metro area)!! Rough injury-riddled season this year..

[kevinm]

Sea!!!

[Jim Holtz]

Wow! I really appreciate the exceptional and very complete review! Of Course, I can't disagree with anything you've said. :rofl:

I'm extremely pleased you're enjoying your Statements as much as I do mine.

Hmmm... Hawks fan? Are you from Iowa?

Jim

[bostonmurf]

Excellent review poppapig! They do take up your life for a good few months or so. Even when your not building them your thinking about them. I'm still tweaking mine to get them perfect plus I hope to move house soon so I'll have to do it again. In the end the statements are way beyond a pair of speakers - there basically comparable to a high end guitar or piano. You have to have it set up to the way you feel comfortable with which takes time and dedication - and over time it just keeps improving.
Feels nice to be in the statement club doesn't it

[poppapig]

This project has been for lack of a better term; Epic.. A trilogy with supportive novels You have the escapades of research/project selection, THE build, and after completion you realize the journey is just beginning. I am going to break up my thoughts as tackling the project end to end is too daunting and in annoyingly popular TV show fashion I am going to begin with the almost-end which pertains to:

1. Powering
2. Placement
3. Tweaks
4. Room Treatment
5. Source Material

Each of these categories yielded observable benefits which were mandatory considerations to pull the optimal and atmospheric performance from the Statements. Right out of the build/break-in (Yes break-in is real for these!) the Statements will do several things well above high-end box store speakers.

• They will deliver on the FULL range description. From smooth resonate bass through sparkling glitter, nothing is lacking.
• If this is your first entry into a proven HiFi speaker product they will open up a new audible world to you.

These are desirable traits and worthy in their own right to justify a Statement build but this is just the beginning. I have found that by applying tried and true principles as well as Statement specific considerations these speakers are capable of being elite performers.
Powering:

• Originally powered by an Onkyo receiver @ 110watts/4Ohms the speakers performed well at moderate listening levels. Complex source material using all 5 drivers however would exceed the needs of the statements. I then acquired an Emotiva 7.1 which pushed a more stable 100watts however I could still hear particular opportunity to clean up the lower end so I bi-amped the mains which results in 200 watts @ 4ohms. MUCH BETTER! After completing the Center Channel I needed more power ceiling again. I now use 3 monoblock amps which deliver 300watts per channel @ 4ohms. I am placing my stamp of recommendation on this approach (300W per ch, 200W minimum).
• Power Snake oil? Yeah, I think there is allot of that out there. Especially considering the high sensitivity of box store speakers. It is particularly interesting to me as a buddy brought his amp over to drive the statements which had a power meter on-board. Throughout listening the power meter stayed between 50-80watts with rare peaks above 100. That said, I simply cannot deny the rock solid, do anything I have asked benefits of having the extra power.

Placement:

• This IMO is the primary decision point folks should pivot on regarding whether or not to take on the open tunnel Statement design. Really. The open mids are so alluring from a design perspective that I found myself saying “I WANT TO DO THAT!” before really considering what was possible in my room as it was. Once I committed to the open mids there was no looking back and I literally scrapped the surround shelving I built ~6yrs ago which housed my components, media and Infinity Delta’s.
• Do I HAVE to have 18” behind and 14” to the side? Realllllyyy?... YES. You do. At one point I was listening and thought WTH happened to my Statements!? They sound “off”.. AHA! I had one of my Home theater seats along the left hand wall near the left Statement. The impact was undeniably negative. It also motivate me to take the plywood backing off my center shelving and replace it with a single strip as anything near the sides of the speakers will interrupt the sound stage/imaging.

Tweaks:

• Tweaks are an area each builder/owner will have to work through research, trial/error. What I can say in confidence (based on my experience) is that if you don’t think you are getting exactly what you thought you should from these, you can get there via controlled/intentional adjustments.
• Most obvious outside of power & placement is the mid tunnel foam depth and length. Go ahead and listen without any foam. Then listen with full length foam. Then pull it back in one inch increments. The difference is fascinating and admittedly disconcerting to me. Why disconcerting? Well because although I know I have good ears, I want to be told by an expert what exactly is optimal. For Jim, that was a few inches off from the back of the drivers. For me it was another few.

Room Treatment:

• Yes, this is room dependent… maybe not.. Sure each room has entirely distinct acoustical characteristics and may warrant different types of treatments but I will boldly say there is no exception for primary reflection points. Treat them! The difference for my application was the difference between being very happy with my results, to being forever done hunting for perfection. I’m there. I could listen to these Statements as they are now until the end of time and not hunger for better.
• Treating direct reflection points polished ~60hz through 10K to an extent all strain to detect detail was gone. The strain for detail would happen when I would catch an artifact like string plucks at one time or another and then anticipating it in subsequent listening sessions I would focus my ears to hear it again and observe how it comes through. Treating the room revealed that reflections across the spectrum were muddying the detail just enough to distract and mask. Now not only are new details being revealed but they are effortless to receive.

Source Material:

• I don’t need to spend too much time on this. I often hear how “forgiving” or “warm” various speakers are. They are terms often used to say; if your source material sux, these speakers won’t shove the warts in your face so you can still enjoy them. I say NO! HiFi isn’t about cover-up is it!? I want it all.. At least I do when I am devoting time to listening. This is to say I am focused on hearing, not other things. I can’t do background music. It’s a flaw of mine I guess, but I find background music irritating and distracting. I can’t do other things AND have background music. Sports radio!? GO HAWKS! But not music. The Statements will quickly reveal to you that what is done in the studio is hugely impactful to your music choices. I am not a devoted fan of Norah Jones, Fiona Apple, nor Daft Punk but dagnabbit if I don’t listen to them all the time because of their production quality and leverage of 2ch direction.

I’ll never forget the first time I walked into a HiFi boutique and was so confused how the sound was seemingly everywhere my ears were. I found myself hunting for the speakers and couldn’t find them. They were Martin Logans :T In my room there is no question where the sound is coming from; shoot the Statements are HUGE lol! That said, with elite level source material one just need close their eyes the speakers disappear. There is simply a stage with musicians placed wherever the producer put them. That day in the HiFi shop the Martin Logans set a precedent in my ears/brain for what audio Nirvana sounds like. Ethereal, transparency, live, detailed. Just recently I acquired audio Nirvana and it waits for me in my cave whenever I can spare the time to listen to my Statements.

These categories (Power, Placement, Tweaks, Room Treatment) IMO should dissuade the average audio fan away from the original Statements. Wait, WUH!? My point being that to get to a result that honors the original design and realize the full potential of the Statements, the builder needs to not only be prepared for the huge project scope of the build, but all of the follow-up considerations once the Statements are completed. If you, like me:
- Love building things
- Have creative problem solving skills
- Know what your end goal looks/sounds like
- Have the facility (room) to optimize your chances for success
- Can stick out iterative changes to get there

DO IT! I may just have my ashes put in the cabinets when I die :lol:

[5th element]

Very nice! Hope you get many hours of enjoyment out of your set up.

[poppapig]

nice work poppapig! same as my set up i completed a few weeks back. love the sound, its amazing isn't it! I'm currently building the Line up R44's for surrounds, a really nice easy cabinet build. i went with the R44's and am making stands so they are at the same height as the mids and ribbon on the towers. I'm going to build the xo's and take the drivers out of one of the towers and try it first to see what the sounds like, this way they already have over 20 hours and i can give them a fair review before buying new drivers. out of interest how big is that screen? I'm running a 100" and it looks really small since i added the towers

Right on! I'll hunt for your project (if you posted it) They really are crazy good.. I'm going to add some commentary regarding performance now that my system has stabilized and I feel more confident in the conclusions I am arriving at. I might have to go the R44 route myself. i picked up 4 of the larger Fluance Bi-Polar surrounds and they are solid but the Statements have ruined my ears for other speakers.. I think my screen is 100, maybe 105"

[poppapig]

Amazing work Pop! you are really making me look forward to my next statement build!

Yeah buddy!

[bostonmurf]

nice work poppapig! same as my set up i completed a few weeks back. love the sound, its amazing isn't it! I'm currently building the Line up R44's for surrounds, a really nice easy cabinet build. i went with the R44's and am making stands so they are at the same height as the mids and ribbon on the towers. I'm going to build the xo's and take the drivers out of one of the towers and try it first to see what the sounds like, this way they already have over 20 hours and i can give them a fair review before buying new drivers. out of interest how big is that screen? I'm running a 100" and it looks really small since i added the towers

[soundemon]

Amazing work Pop! you are really making me look forward to my next statement build!

[poppapig]

Looks good! Very unique. What do you have in those cabinets on either side of the center?

Thanks!
Components, media, etc.. I haven't devised a good place for my sub.. still tweaking/planning..

[kevinm]

Looks good! Very unique. What do you have in those cabinets on either side of the center?

[Jim Holtz]

Beautiful! :T

Jim

[poppapig]

They look Majestic!

Thank you!

Some updates:

[wkhanna]

Progress always makes the best photo....

[PassingInterest]

They look Majestic!

[Mrpictureman]

If I remember correctly, it was a running change that was made after the Statements were published. As long as the port has plenty of room to breath it's not a requirement for good bass at all. I also used 2" spikes to lift the base far enough off the floor to allow good air flow in all directions.

You'd know if you had a bass problem by now.

Jim

I'm pretty pleased with the bass response and tightness, although I do have them elevated 2 1/4" so I will stick with what I have Thanks Jim

[Jim Holtz]

It has been a while since I logged in of course having built my own statements I had to see how everyone was doing on theirs and noticed Jim's comment "I can't see if you cut a channel in the back of the base so the port could breath" I don't remember this in the original plans, did I miss something? Is this new? Can someone explain this for me? Thanks

If I remember correctly, it was a running change that was made after the Statements were published. As long as the port has plenty of room to breath it's not a requirement for good bass at all. I also used 2" spikes to lift the base far enough off the floor to allow good air flow in all directions.

You'd know if you had a bass problem by now.

Jim

[Mrpictureman]

Two thoughts.


1. I can't see if you cut a channel in the back of the base so the port could breath. If not, you need pretty tall spikes on the bottom of the base to give the port plenty of breathing room. I used 2 1/2" tall spikes plus I have a 5" wide channel cut in the back of the base.

2. Breakin; I like to get about 20 hours of playing time before I do much in the way of critical listening. Normal volume playing what you'll listen to is fine. Turn it on and leave.

Jim

It has been a while since I logged in of course having built my own statements I had to see how everyone was doing on theirs and noticed Jim's comment "I can't see if you cut a channel in the back of the base so the port could breath" I don't remember this in the original plans, did I miss something? Is this new? Can someone explain this for me? Thanks

[poppapig]

Thank you John, these looks cool..

[john trials]

P.S. Short of the Statement monitors; any ideas for a compact design for surrounds? Monitors would be over-kill for the use they'll get.

I have the Statement Monitors for surrounds. You are correct...overkill. I got a bit carried away with speaker building! Some day, I would love to build something smaller and free up the Monitors for stereo listening in a different room, but I'm still in ultra-stingy mode after recently ending two years of unemployment. I wish I had bought more of the W4-1337 drivers a few years ago when they were on sale for $35.

I haven't listened to any of them, but look at the Lineup series. Some of them use the same mid and tweeter as the Statements, so they should be fairly closely matched, sound-wise. Start off with some F4 speakers (full-range speakers with just one W4-1337 each), and if that doesn't satisfy your needs, get some Fountek tweeters and upgrade to the R4 (W4-1337 with a Fountek CD3.0).

And let me know how they sound!

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?27583-Lineup-Series-Build-Thread-%28F4-D4-D44-R4-R44%29

[poppapig]

The Bamboo Mammoths got hungry, so I Bi-amp'd them

[poppapig]

Thank you for the kind words but it's Curt that deserves all the credit for how the Statements sound. He's the genius behind this collaboration. He's the one that pulls my crazy ideas together and makes them sing beautiful music.

It sounds like the Statements are off to a good start if your wife is that happy already. I'm looking forward to your impressions when they're broken in and you can properly listen to them.

Tell me a little bit about your usage of the Statements. How much music and how much home theater are you planning on? What are goals for the system looking ahead?

Once I get that, I can make some recommendations.

Jim

"All the credit" eh? Never underestimate the value of crazy ideas
I would sum up the use of my Statements as eclectic. They live in my Man-Cave/Family Ent room where Movies/TV/Xbox are viewed and listening is done. Probably a 75% TV/Gaming to 25% music listening split. I have diverse musical sensibilities but particularly enjoy acoustic sets/pure vocals. I also enjoy high quality live concert series videos.. I like sensible, clean/tight base and play most everything at a moderate listening level.

[Jim Holtz]

Thank you Jim!
I find myself very thankful for your contribution. Perhaps sometime I will delve into design myself however this project met me right where I am. I enjoy multifaceted/complex projects which result in new skills & knowledge.

I have not breached 20hrs yet (~hr 8 now) but I have to say it was my wife's reaction to the sound that made the project already worth-while. She was giddy listening to a few familiar tracks (bouncing, agape smile, giggles) as she heard back-up vocals she previously thought were instruments and a depth to sounds she'd never heard. I'll provide impressions in the next week or so once more listening is put in. I will say I am not powering these sufficiently so I am going to install a 2nd set of plugs for the woofers and bi-wire them which will take them from 115W @4ohms to 230W (Emotiva Amp). Thank you again sir, it's really cool to show you yet another completed product from your design.

P.S. Short of the Statement monitors; any ideas for a compact design for surrounds? Monitors would be over-kill for the use they'll get.

Thank you for the kind words but it's Curt that deserves all the credit for how the Statements sound. He's the genius behind this collaboration. He's the one that pulls my crazy ideas together and makes them sing beautiful music.

It sounds like the Statements are off to a good start if your wife is that happy already. I'm looking forward to your impressions when they're broken in and you can properly listen to them.

Tell me a little bit about your usage of the Statements. How much music and how much home theater are you planning on? What are goals for the system looking ahead?

Once I get that, I can make some recommendations.

Jim

[kevinm]

I had the parts laying around for the Noobsters (Vifa DX25 and Tang Band W5-704D). I've started building and should be test worthy in a few weeks - I can let you know.

Far from ideal since the drivers are different, but I was under some restrictions that led me to try the Noobsters (recycling parts is a good thing, right?). At only .5 cubic foot cabinet, the size is pretty good.

[poppapig]

Beautiful work! That is a job well done! :T

I hope you enjoy the sound quality as much as I do. Remember to let them break in for about 20 hours before any serious listening.

Jim

Thank you Jim!
I find myself very thankful for your contribution. Perhaps sometime I will delve into design myself however this project met me right where I am. I enjoy multifaceted/complex projects which result in new skills & knowledge.

I have not breached 20hrs yet (~hr 8 now) but I have to say it was my wife's reaction to the sound that made the project already worth-while. She was giddy listening to a few familiar tracks (bouncing, agape smile, giggles) as she heard back-up vocals she previously thought were instruments and a depth to sounds she'd never heard. I'll provide impressions in the next week or so once more listening is put in. I will say I am not powering these sufficiently so I am going to install a 2nd set of plugs for the woofers and bi-wire them which will take them from 115W @4ohms to 230W (Emotiva Amp). Thank you again sir, it's really cool to show you yet another completed product from your design.

P.S. Short of the Statement monitors; any ideas for a compact design for surrounds? Monitors would be over-kill for the use they'll get.

[poppapig]

Beautiful work and I'm sure you, family and guests will get many hours of delightful music and movie enjoyment from your labor of love.

Thank you Hank! It's certainly heading that way.. These sound beautiful even though they are currently underpowered and un-broken-in..

[poppapig]

Deleted/duplicate

[Hank]

Beautiful work and I'm sure you, family and guests will get many hours of delightful music and movie enjoyment from your labor of love.

[Jim Holtz]

Beautiful work! That is a job well done! :T

I hope you enjoy the sound quality as much as I do. Remember to let them break in for about 20 hours before any serious listening.

Jim

[kevinm]

I did too. No shame.

[poppapig]

Thank you Gents!

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
I'll take time later in the week to provide listening impressions but for now here are the final pics (though I may take more with a legit camera as these are all from my phone).









Pretty sure these tip the scales ~230lbs each. My good buddy is a power-lifter and I'm a Triathlete; we needed the training to carry these inside They are placed 18" from the back wall and maybe 14" from the side. I don't recall what the recommended side-wall placement is.. The "little" floor stander next to the Statement in the picture is an Infinity Delta 40 (ran those for 15yrs!). I will likely make a velvet side panel for them to eliminate the screen glare. I am already very impressed with some listening I did before a gathering in my Man-Cave last night (Film&Theology). I stared at them often as if they are two centerfolds who have taken up residence lol.. They are big and beautiful.. Yes I hugged each one! Hey what can I say.. I'm a Statement-hugger.

[JonMarsh]

Looking very nice so far! :T

[fschris]

amazing build... I have to build a pair of these soon